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Ask a simple question, get a simple answer - Beast edition.

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  • Ask a simple question, get a simple answer - Beast edition.

    This feels like a silly question, but how exactly do you/others access your lair? It talks about giving people access to your lair without you being present, and the "Hold the Door" section talks about your Lair having "entrances" but I don't see any further explanation about how they work. Is the primary way you access your lair by primordial pathways? That seems really weird because when you do that everyone around you gets pulled into your lair, so I don't see how granting permission comes into it. The in game example of how primordial pathways works also implies that you have to leave the current chamber you are in if you want to actually stay in your lair when the pathways closes, which is just strange.

  • #2
    Basically the entrance is an area where a chamber was created (or exceptionally similar to it) as those are the places where the Primordial Pathway can be opened. Judging by the fact that Heroes can potentially invade and that the book brings up that the lair can have intruders I would say that other beings can open the pathway or access the lair if the being is able to open portals into other worlds. Hold the door can be interpreted two different ways from that. First granting someone easier access to the lair when they try and open an entrance into it. The more likely one though is making it easier to transition from an open Pathway into one of the actual chambers.

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    • #3
      There is also Under the Bed, but that is for the Beast only. And I'm actually not sure where you end up when you use it now that i'm reading it again.


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      • #4
        I'm going to assume it defaults to the Heart.

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        • #5
          I suppose that works. Although now I'm thinking, since it says you have access to the Primordial Pathways, maybe you just choose where you go. Anywhere in your Lair. Maybe even anywhere in a shared Lair. It does take more work and the right circumstance to use.


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          • #6
            If a Hero finds out that Anathema are something that they place on Beasts, do they gain the ability to choose which Anathema they inflict?


            "Fate is a cruel jester with a finely developed sense of irony." - Sir Night as portrayed by Leliel, The Horror Recognition Guide

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            • #7
              Originally posted by GibberingEloquence View Post
              If a Hero finds out that Anathema are something that they place on Beasts, do they gain the ability to choose which Anathema they inflict?
              I think that it's an instinctual thing. From the Hero's point of view, they don't place an Anathema. They realise that the Beast has a fundamental weakness. I'm not sure. I think that they might try to determine which one gets placed, but I don't know if they would succeed or not. i usually just choose the Anathema which is best for the story. perhaps the hero might learn to manipulate the story so that the Anathema he wants is the one that's most likely to be placed.


              Is it presumptuous of me to ask for alternating male/female pronouns?

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              • #8
                Originally posted by GibberingEloquence View Post
                If a Hero finds out that Anathema are something that they place on Beasts, do they gain the ability to choose which Anathema they inflict?
                Depends on the Anathema. I mean something like a weak point can easily be justified as having badly injured the Beast there and thus that's a spot to exploit. You might be able to swing some of the mental stuff like burning a collector's hoard causes it to go insane or something. Weaknesses are normally just things the Hero is going to "discover" unless it's pulling weird stuff like "my friend here is a powerful wizard and he has cursed you with a weakness to aluminum foil foul monster."

                I think that's about as close as a Hero is coming to placing an anathema as a conscious decision. I don't think Heroes would be that big on accepting Anathema as a sort of magic power that they can inflict on Beasts, since that would make them ,and other like them, seem like just a group of people with a convenient magic power. As opposed to how most antagonist Heroes are likely to think of themselves which is "I am so badass I did this to the monster."

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by ajf115 View Post
                  I think that it's an instinctual thing. From the Hero's point of view, they don't place an Anathema. They realise that the Beast has a fundamental weakness. I'm not sure. I think that they might try to determine which one gets placed, but I don't know if they would succeed or not. i usually just choose the Anathema which is best for the story. perhaps the hero might learn to manipulate the story so that the Anathema he wants is the one that's most likely to be placed.
                  Originally posted by nalak42 View Post
                  Depends on the Anathema. I mean something like a weak point can easily be justified as having badly injured the Beast there and thus that's a spot to exploit. You might be able to swing some of the mental stuff like burning a collector's hoard causes it to go insane or something. Weaknesses are normally just things the Hero is going to "discover" unless it's pulling weird stuff like "my friend here is a powerful wizard and he has cursed you with a weakness to aluminum foil foul monster."

                  I think that's about as close as a Hero is coming to placing an anathema as a conscious decision. I don't think Heroes would be that big on accepting Anathema as a sort of magic power that they can inflict on Beasts, since that would make them ,and other like them, seem like just a group of people with a convenient magic power. As opposed to how most antagonist Heroes are likely to think of themselves which is "I am so badass I did this to the monster."
                  That's what I suspected. If a Beast or anyone else said to the Hero that they were placing the weakness instead of discovering it, their inherent stubbornness would eliminate any doubts that might cross their minds. It would be good to have an official answer, though.


                  "Fate is a cruel jester with a finely developed sense of irony." - Sir Night as portrayed by Leliel, The Horror Recognition Guide

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by GibberingEloquence View Post



                    That's what I suspected. If a Beast or anyone else said to the Hero that they were placing the weakness instead of discovering it, their inherent stubbornness would eliminate any doubts that might cross their minds. It would be good to have an official answer, though.
                    That happens in one of the stories in the fiction anthology. A Beast tries to tell his Hero that she created the weaknesses he was suffering from, and asked why he would live so close to the forest that could kill him.

                    She wouldn't believe him.


                    "Nihhina kalekal-zidu kal masun, kal manudanadu. Nihhina kalekal-zidu nukal shaghu-desasudu — nihhina kalekal-zidu kal innu-desasudu udhkal samm." Arthur Ashe
                    On the Chronicles of Darkness Slack Team. PM me for invitation
                    Check out my tumblr for Chronicles of Darkness-related musings

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by GibberingEloquence View Post
                      If a Hero finds out that Anathema are something that they place on Beasts, do they gain the ability to choose which Anathema they inflict?
                      Remember, Heroes operate under a self-reinforcing delusion that they are the center of the story. Conversely to that delusion, anything that would be more directly attributable to his own action is going to be interpreted as an outside force, be it history, fate, or a god-figure, assuring the righteousness of his course. I imagine that the specifics of Anathema have less to do with the volition of the Hero placing it and more to do with the unconscious biases of the Hero in his interpretation of the powers and habits of the Beast in question, which are born out by whichever processes the Hero uses to place Anathema, be it through the quasi-scientific research of your typical amateur cryptozoologist-styled Hero, the vision-quests and moments of clarity of your Chosen One (tm), or through the panicked anecdotes of your movie-geek-trapped-in-a-slasher-flick. Despite the inherent falsehood of their place in the story, Anathema are generally going to be logically consistent with the first impressions the Hero has of the Beast they're placing the Anathema upon, so more often than not, they fit into a theme rather than just being contrived from whatever is readily at hand. Of course, that's not to stop an ST at higher levels from throwing in a Hero that has just enough self-awareness to know that the resonance a prospective Anathema has with the Beast is not as important as the narrative weight he puts behind it, so such a Hero could do the narrative equivalent of the Sidereal Failure without Fail destiny if that was what the ST wanted to happen.


                      Crunch isn't a hobby; it's a calling.

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                      • #12
                        Well, first of all, I'm going to disagree with everyone else here to start with. While the heroes that Beasts tend to encounter are self-deluded glory seekers, they're not the whole of heroes. I'm also willing to bet that we're going to get a Hunter Conspiracy that effectively turns you into a Hero, much like we have Conspiracies that double as God-Machine cultists, Seer followers, and spirit pawns. Anyways, my point is that while early drafts of the game made heroes into deluded VanHellsing Hate Crime douchy tools, there are a couple of paths that a hero can follow. Some of them are less inclined to kill, and more inclined to other measures, like observing first, or (heaven forbid) actually talking. These more open minded heroes could very well come to understand what they are doing. Especially if they end up on friendly terms with a Beast and sit down to talk about their natures. And, yes, that does happen - social expert Beasts are very good at flipping heroes to the "dark side." It doesn't take a rocket scientist to realize that a removable and changable weakness has to have a cause.

                        Also, remember that there are several ways to place an Anathema. The default is in the middle of combat as part of an attack. A hero can learn a gift to place the weakness through research or through vocally denouncing the Beast (Loremaster and Saint's Whisper). Now, the research method mirrors how one discovers ephemeral being's weaknesses and shred a Demon's cover, so most people with this method aren't likely to realize its creating a weakness instead of discovering it. However, the vocal denouncement? That's very much thematically appropriate for a choice to be made as part of what you're telling the Beast.

                        All this is theorycrafting, of course. Chances are this won't come up in play. To be honest, I've had trouble with having PCs actually hang out in the Sated Condition for any reasonable length of time to leave themselves vulnerable enough to be hit with an Anathema, and, frankly, approaching a Beast without an Anathema is suicidal for all but the most tweaked out hero band. But it is theoretically possible.

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                        • #13
                          So, when a Beast travels from their lair to the Temenos/Anima Mundi/Onieros via a primordial pathway, do they travel there physically or as a dream form?

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by solidork View Post
                            So, when a Beast travels from their lair to the Temenos/Anima Mundi/Onieros via a primordial pathway, do they travel there physically or as a dream form?

                            Physically, I think.


                            Is it presumptuous of me to ask for alternating male/female pronouns?

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                            • #15
                              No, it's dream form. If they get killed they end up back in their lair with soul-shock.

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