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Ask a simple question, get a simple answer - Beast edition.

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  • Plus if I recall supernaturals seeing a Beast use an Atavism tend to see a shadow form or an overlay or something of the Beast's Horror, might tip off a mage.

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    • Satchel yeah, I Get that. I suppose. This makes it more of a spider sense, though, no? Or does it really exclusively Apply To sight? Because then the mage would have to be looking at the marking in progress to even qualify for noticing something magical. Huh. I should hit the mage board with mah questions, dont wanna derail.

      nalak42 indeed, as long as youre looking at the beast in that moment that is the case!

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      • The peripheral tells him something happened, the keen merit tells him "something spacey happened" can he then scrutinize the details of the power used? Learning the powers a ghoul gains from dead blood with death as the example, he'd learn that someone can "scry" him via space. Or can use his senses briefly if he scrutinized with mind. That about sums it up?

        Regarding supernatural senses constantly registering beasts and their atavisms, all I can say is it must be pretty messy.
        Last edited by Arduras; 08-27-2017, 08:24 AM.

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        • Can a Beast use You Must Obey to make someone forget what just happened to them? This was brought up in our last game and was kind of a point of contention. I personally think you can't but my friend thinks it's possible.

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          • Originally posted by Rahuman101 View Post
            Can a Beast use You Must Obey to make someone forget what just happened to them? This was brought up in our last game and was kind of a point of contention. I personally think you can't but my friend thinks it's possible.
            You can order a person to yes, and they might even try to forget like you tell them to, but I don't think it allows one to start mucking around with memories. Look at the base level it specifically says that attempts to ignore or countermand the Beast's orders provoke a breaking point. That speaks to the general flavor of the nightmare in question. This isn't a power that turns people into a will-less thrall who's mind can be freely shaped, this is body control specifically to evoke the horror of a person not being able to control themself.

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            • So I'm very confused on the Unbreakable Atavism: How exactly does it work combined with Iron Skin at the Highest Levels? What attacks go through it? How as a storyteller in a mechanical combat fight would you challenge these creatures since their armor supposedly applies to aggravated damage? Is it only through Anathemas & Armor Piercing? The whole numbers confuse me as it seems like Unbreakable is impossible to fight along with the fact General Armor applies to all attacks. Clarification would be nice - Thanks in advance

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              • Originally posted by Volke View Post
                So I'm very confused on the Unbreakable Atavism: How exactly does it work combined with Iron Skin at the Highest Levels?
                At the highest levels of Iron Skin, the character has the greatest amount of Stamina a character can get without supernatural assistance, Armor 2 against non-aggravated damage, the ability to spend a point of Willpower to downgrade two points of lethal damage into two points of bashing damage, the ability to spend a point of Willpower to downgrade one point of non-Anathema aggravated damage into one point of lethal damage, and the ability to ignore the first point of non-Anathema damage from a given instance of damage.

                The Unbreakable Atavism adds 3 to your general Armor rating and 2 to your ballistic Armor rating as its base effect, rising to +4/+3 at low Satiety (which comes with all the problems that Low Satiety normally represents).

                If you've got a character with those advantages at their disposal on top of the usual resilience Environmental Immunities afford you, then the threats to such a character are chiefly in weapons and resources that ignore Armor, hazards you are not immune to, Killing Blows, social/mental/perceptual offenses, and generally putting powerful weaponry in the hands of extremely skilled users of those weapons.

                It's supposed to be hard to overcome that kind of damage reduction without "cheats" — that's part and parcel of being on the higher end of resilience in a class of monster that specifically corresponds with legendary nightmare creatures from the start.


                Resident Sanguinary Analyst
                Currently Consuming: Changeling: the Lost 1e

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                • Satchel is correct, but to add some concrete examples for clarity: High powered guns can have weapon modifiers of +3, 4, even 5, and armor piercing ammo can ignore 1 to 3 points of armor. Yeah, handguns and probably even shotguns are nearly worthless against a fully armored Beast, so you bring an elephant gun, or a sniper rifle with specialty ammunition.

                  Beasts themselves have a number of armor negating abilities at their disposal. Basilik's Touch inflicts poison (although you probably need to be a low satiety to reliably use it on someone with stamina 5+) Siren's Treacherous Song ignores most forms of armor. Cyclopean Strength combined with Limb From Limb just wins by sheer dint of numbers for Beasts with Lair 4 or higher. Advanced Killer Instinct is a major advantage against armor, and so on.

                  There are a million other ways for other splats to deal with armor, and I don't have the comprehensive knowledge or patience to get into all of them, but Changelings alone have Renders and Razorhands, who can take Potent Kith to get pretty respectable amounts of armor piercing (well, Razorhands cancel it out with weapon modifier, but the end result is the same) even at relatively little exp.

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                  • Satchel is mostly correct. You reduce Bashing Damage by 2, Lethal Damage by 2, and all non-Anathama damage by 1. This is important for firearms, because the ballistic armor reduces the incoming damage. Combine with Relentless Hunter and Infestation for ultimate survivability.

                    What is effectively 7/3 armor against most attacks (8/6 with a concealable bulletproof vest or 10/4 with modern chainmail) is powerful, but not insurmountable. A hypothetical 5L, 3AP gun will only deal Successes -1 damage while a 5L, 3AP sword will deal Successes +1. Killer Instinct is another +3 damage. Called shot the head to avoid mundane armor. Then there is all the various non-damage ways affect a Beast, or damage ways that avoid armor all together. In Beast you have: Basilisk' s Touch, Siren's Song, Cyclopean Strength, Limb from Limb, and Behold! MY TRUE FORM that can help you ignore or outpace the opponent's armor. With the right fighting styles, a plain Jane mortal has a chance of getting through it.

                    As for STing that sort of monster, understand that the player is signaling to you that they want to play the Juggernaught. Let them do that, give them chances to shine, challenge them in other area, and give them threats that only they can survive.

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                    • Spending Satiety on Unbreakable makes bashing damage no longer apply, and most sources of Lethal damage turn into Bashing. Furthermore, his armor now applies to aggravated damage. That makes them quite Juggernaut-y, but as one of my beasts just had to experience, fighting something like a Mosquito-Host (Zhibesi from this forum) can still be a pain in the ass. Combining Unbreakable with Relentless Hunter and Looming Presence constitutes the defensive trifecta (More health + low satiety reduces the attackers dice pool by half your Lair rounded up, which is like bonus Defense that you do not lose when using All-Out attacks. As long as you are the taller, of course.) Adding Infestation makes this only more crazy as low Satiety Infestation reduces most Sources of Lethal damage to Bashing. Pair this up with Satiety spending on Unbreakable, and you are nearly invulnerable except for Aggravated damage (still reduced by armor). Now add Iron Skin all the way up to Epic, and even that can be downgraded/outright soaked.

                      Creating a Beast like that WOULD eat up 7 xp for the Atavisms, at least 4 for the attributes and another 2 for Epic Iron Skin, though, so long as you build towards this in character creation with 4 stamina, and Dropping 4 merit points on advanced/Iron Skin.
                      Total of 13 xp.

                      Also yes, listen to SoulGambit's advice: let them Occasionally revel in their tankiness, give them Threats only they can survive or make it a point to challenge the group so that them tanking allow the others to do their thing (deal damage, steal, discuss, etc ). Then throw them into a Situation where they are totally out of their waters.
                      Last edited by Wormwood; 09-19-2017, 09:38 PM. Reason: sleep y

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                      • Excluding the ones that affect traits unique to humans like speech, could you use Nightmares, or even some more subtle Atavism like Alien Allure or Siren's Treacherous Song, on animals by RAW?


                        A god is just a monster you kneel to. - ArcaneArts, Quoting "Fall of Gods"

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                        • Don't see why not. The Sound of a voice can help calming animals (or so the opposite) if done correctly, and alien Allure was started to be just as likely looks as it is postures or pheremones.
                          Nightmares would be more restricted imo. They need to have the capacity to comprehend/experience the fear the Nightmare is based on. I would not accept You deserve this on most animals, except social advanced beings like Gorillas for example.
                          you are lost makes sense for every territorial animal Bugs everywhere makes sense for many, but not all. Etc. Case by case imo.


                          Phone scrambled some words will correct when at computer
                          Last edited by Wormwood; 10-03-2017, 11:50 AM.

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                          • Can a beast replace their Lair Traits? I'm finding that they can just add new Traits when their Lair increases to applicable heights, but are there any rules for them replacing extant Traits?


                            "Nihhina kalekal-zidu kal masun, kal manudanadu. Nihhina kalekal-zidu nukal shaghu-desasudu — nihhina kalekal-zidu kal innu-desasudu udhkal samm." Arthur Ashe
                            Check out my tumblr for Chronicles of Darkness-related musings
                            He/him pronouns, please

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                            • A simple, and potentially stupid, question. Can a beast enter a dream and deliberately feed on a victim in that dream. I know the Horror can do that when left at Starving for too long, but can a PC feed this way?

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                              • possibly a really dumb question but: Can Beasts form kinships with Heroes? Besides the obvious logistical problems that i assume can be potentially overcome, i couldn't find anything that says they can't (as far as i can tell, only G-M things and Insatiables can't), but I'm afraid there might be something that I super missed like an idiot.

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