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  • Originally posted by Satchel View Post
    There is nothing to suggest that a substitute location is less costly to impose Traits on than the direct basis for the Chamber.
    Correct, both cost a willpower, you covered it in your original post, I just wanted to point out the satiety thing.

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    • I'm having trouble parsing the rules and the setting implications about opening a Primordial Pathway. One of my players had his character open a Pathway to the Lair from the place that he had already used to expand his Lair, so he had no problem with the dice. What I don't understand is this: the character has 2 Resolve, so the Pathway will stay open for two turns (he rolled a normal success, and he was already in battle as he did this).
      What happens when those turns expire?

      Does the Pathway closes, and everybody still in the Lair remains in the Lair?
      By the example in the book it seems like after those turns have expired the pathway closes, and everybody in the Lair is thrown out back in the physical world but... this makes the Lair so less scary. The character will open the Lair or what, less then 10 seconds? Seems lame.

      And if it's like that, how could the various Beasts in a Brood meet in the Lair, or even jump from a dimension to another?

      I've probably misunderstood something. English is my second language. Thanks for the answers!


      Italian nuisance. English is my second language, so be patient!

      My homebrew:
      [VtR 2e] Light From a Dead Star: Rome
      [WtF 2e] The Past Is Another Country: Rome

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      • Originally posted by SNESferatu View Post
        I'm having trouble parsing the rules and the setting implications about opening a Primordial Pathway. One of my players had his character open a Pathway to the Lair from the place that he had already used to expand his Lair, so he had no problem with the dice. What I don't understand is this: the character has 2 Resolve, so the Pathway will stay open for two turns (he rolled a normal success, and he was already in battle as he did this).
        What happens when those turns expire?

        Does the Pathway closes, and everybody still in the Lair remains in the Lair?
        By the example in the book it seems like after those turns have expired the pathway closes, and everybody in the Lair is thrown out back in the physical world but... this makes the Lair so less scary. The character will open the Lair or what, less then 10 seconds? Seems lame.

        And if it's like that, how could the various Beasts in a Brood meet in the Lair, or even jump from a dimension to another?

        I've probably misunderstood something. English is my second language. Thanks for the answers!
        Exceptional Success keeps it open for the whole Scene, remember. Further, while the Chamber is super-imposed over the area, if anyone tries to leave, they exit into another Chamber instead of leaving the material location. Perhaps ironically, the best thing to do when a Beast draws down their Lair is to face stay put until the Pathway fades. Running leaves you in the Lair.


        Malkydel: "And the Machine dictated; let there be adequate illumination."
        Yossarian: "And lo, it was optimal."

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        • Originally posted by Vent0 View Post

          Exceptional Success keeps it open for the whole Scene, remember. Further, while the Chamber is super-imposed over the area, if anyone tries to leave, they exit into another Chamber instead of leaving the material location. Perhaps ironically, the best thing to do when a Beast draws down their Lair is to face stay put until the Pathway fades. Running leaves you in the Lair.
          Thank you! But there's nothing against, like, trying to let the pathway stay open by rerolling the action ad infinitum, right?


          Italian nuisance. English is my second language, so be patient!

          My homebrew:
          [VtR 2e] Light From a Dead Star: Rome
          [WtF 2e] The Past Is Another Country: Rome

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          • Originally posted by SNESferatu View Post

            Thank you! But there's nothing against, like, trying to let the pathway stay open by rerolling the action ad infinitum, right?
            Aside from the obvious of the ST potentially refusing to allow you to immediatly reopen the pathway once it closes, it also costs 1 willpower every time you try to force it open. So in an absurdly best case scenario where your ST is alright with just forcing the door open again the instant it starts to close, having maximum willpower, and never failing to get an exceptional success you would get 10 scenes.

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            • Originally posted by SNESferatu View Post
              By the example in the book it seems like after those turns have expired the pathway closes, and everybody in the Lair is thrown out back in the physical world but... this makes the Lair so less scary. The character will open the Lair or what, less then 10 seconds? Seems lame.
              The front door of your dread stronghold is not the place to expect massive gains even without accounting for how rapidly 2e combat can resolve itself.

              And if it's like that, how could the various Beasts in a Brood meet in the Lair, or even jump from a dimension to another?
              When a Pathway closes, everyone in the Chamber winds up in the end of the connection that isn't the Lair.

              To get around this, characters move deeper into the Lair through a Burrow, which a Beast may allow a guest to do reflexively by extending her express permission through Hold the Door or Be My Guest; otherwise, the Burrows of the Beast's Lair are substantially harder to move through, costing Willpower and requiring a contested roll against the Horror that takes multiple turns to accomplish itself.

              There's a reason even starting Beasts have two Chambers.


              Resident Sanguinary Analyst
              Currently Consuming: Changeling: the Lost 1e

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              • What beast makes for the best domnatraix?

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                • Originally posted by Konradleijon View Post
                  What beast makes for the best domnatraix?
                  You already asked this


                  A god is just a monster you kneel to. - ArcaneArts, Quoting "Fall of Gods"

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                  • Can an Alchemist from Promethean be considered kin by a Beast?


                    Italian nuisance. English is my second language, so be patient!

                    My homebrew:
                    [VtR 2e] Light From a Dead Star: Rome
                    [WtF 2e] The Past Is Another Country: Rome

                    Comment


                    • Re: Alchemists, its a pretty radical change, so sure. They are changed inside and out. A mere 1 dot unseen sense (divine fire stuff) works.

                      Originally posted by ArchonAres View Post

                      Remember that your customers are going to experience serious shock, well beyond the enjoyable kind, for you to feed.
                      Less than a breaking point, and some of the shocks are quite minor. ANY show of power can satisfy a tyrant, for example, and even a minimal transgression that makes you feel a little guilty can satisfy an enabler. 1 dot enabler/tyrant feeds are pretty ubiquitous human interaction.
                      Last edited by Deinos; 06-06-2018, 07:34 AM.

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                      • Originally posted by Deinos View Post
                        Less than a breaking point, and some of the shocks are quite minor. ANY show of power can satisfy a tyrant, for example, and even a minimal transgression that makes you feel a little guilty can satisfy an enabler. 1 dot enabler/tyrant feeds are pretty ubiquitous human interaction.
                        Per the Book:

                        "In either case, the moment of feeding happens when the victim experiences the shock. The shock happens at the moment where a victim realizes what is happening. If he learns a lesson, the shock is the instant in which it crystallizes."

                        Yes, for low satiety this can be any show of power, but you still need a moment of shock. Shouting at a sub, for example, isn't likely to get you that moment- they're expecting it, desiring it even, and it was always clear they were 'weaker'- that's the whole point of being a sub. Breaking their trust enough to really get that moment of shock and feed is likely to get you thrown out of the BDSM community, and business.

                        Mechanically, I'd say on average your getting a 1 base with maybe a +1 if it fits your feeding preferences. Personally, I'd give you a -1 for attempting to feed on a target who's expecting the attempt at shock- not because they're trying to resist your shock or something, but because it's a shock they expect and want. You're not going to shape the primordial dream, which is required per p108

                        "The important thing is that the victim’s unconscious response impacts the Primordial Dream, strengthening the Horror"

                        Even just shouting at a random stranger might not work, at least not without a contested intimidate roll, because that stranger could just take that as a challenge and punch your lights out- or at least try to.

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                        • Originally posted by ArchonAres View Post
                          Mechanically, I'd say on average your getting a 1 base with maybe a +1 if it fits your feeding preferences. Personally, I'd give you a -1 for attempting to feed on a target who's expecting the attempt at shock- not because they're trying to resist your shock or something, but because it's a shock they expect and want.
                          Generally, yes, its going to start at satiety potential 1, and I'd even go farther than the -1, to say it would be an average of -2, "meals procured by others." So yeah, there is a penalty, you're absolutely right. 0-1 is about going to be the average starting dice pool. A cult can procure meals for you, even willing ones (I'm definitely not making up the idea of willing repeat customers for beasts), and neutralize the penalty, however. Overall, the infrastructure of a 'sex worker' relevant operation is well within the scope for a beast cult; not the cult itself as clients (usually) but the staff and underlings and such.

                          Feedings will typically be pretty low value but reliable and may even have plenty of instances. A beast that enjoys numerous shallow feedings can get pretty good at it. Of course, you'll probably either be taking the -2, or risking easy dramatic failures from using a cult; the bit about it winding up being oddly unsatisfying and costing you satiety on a dramatic failure feels entirely appropriate for a beast that tries a very tame, predictable, reliable approach to feeding.

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                          • Originally posted by Deinos View Post

                            Generally, yes, its going to start at satiety potential 1, and I'd even go farther than the -1, to say it would be an average of -2, "meals procured by others." So yeah, there is a penalty, you're absolutely right. 0-1 is about going to be the average starting dice pool. A cult can procure meals for you, even willing ones (I'm definitely not making up the idea of willing repeat customers for beasts), and neutralize the penalty, however. Overall, the infrastructure of a 'sex worker' relevant operation is well within the scope for a beast cult; not the cult itself as clients (usually) but the staff and underlings and such.

                            Feedings will typically be pretty low value but reliable and may even have plenty of instances. A beast that enjoys numerous shallow feedings can get pretty good at it. Of course, you'll probably either be taking the -2, or risking easy dramatic failures from using a cult; the bit about it winding up being oddly unsatisfying and costing you satiety on a dramatic failure feels entirely appropriate for a beast that tries a very tame, predictable, reliable approach to feeding.
                            The problem comes in that your total satiety potential must exceed your current satiety. So you'd only be able to feed like this at allt satiety 1-2.

                            So to get any feeding potential of note... *Looks at other modifiers* it isn't exactly pleasant. Also, a sex cult would be less of what I think the op was intending, and definitely far darker.

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                            • Originally posted by Konradleijon View Post
                              What beast makes for the best domnatraix?
                              Since this seems important to you:

                              The one who's had the job the longest.


                              Sean K.I.W. Steele, Freelance Writer
                              Work Blog Coming Soon
                              The world is not beautiful, therefore it is.-Keiichi Sigsawa, Kino's Journey
                              Male/neutral pronouns accepted, female pronouns enjoyed.

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                              • Woohoo what type of beast would Rick of Rick and morty be?

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