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Ask a simple question, get a simple answer - Beast edition.

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  • Has anyone here utilized the Vancouver setting for a game of Beast? I find it very intriguing, and would be curious to know how it went.

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    • I tried to run a search for this but couldn't find what I was looking for

      When making a Hero, do I use a normal Mortal sheet, or is there a sheet for Heroes?

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      • Originally posted by Argeniat View Post
        I tried to run a search for this but couldn't find what I was looking for

        When making a Hero, do I use a normal Mortal sheet, or is there a sheet for Heroes?
        Just mortal, I think. They don't have stats like Lair, and only a few Gifts and inherent abilities to keep track of.


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        • Originally posted by Argeniat View Post
          I tried to run a search for this but couldn't find what I was looking for

          When making a Hero, do I use a normal Mortal sheet, or is there a sheet for Heroes?
          I wouldl use a mortal sheet, but with legend and life instead of virtue and vice

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          • Not answering a question, but a handy reminder that Heroes are orthogonal to the way of things for Beasts. You want a bigger fish, go Insatiable.


            Sean K.I.W./Kelly R.A. Steele, Freelance Writer(Feel free to call me Sean, Kelly, Arcane, or Arc)
            The world is not beautiful, therefore it is.-Keiichi Sigsawa, Kino's Journey
            Feminine pronouns, please.

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            • Originally posted by ArcaneArts View Post
              Not answering a question, but a handy reminder that Heroes are orthogonal to the way of things for Beasts. You want a bigger fish, go Insatiable.

              What do you mean by orthogonal in this context? The dictionary definition I found seems like it's related metaphorically, but I can't parse the metaphor


              A god is just a monster you kneel to. - ArcaneArts, Quoting "Fall of Gods"

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              • Originally posted by Master Aquatosic View Post
                What do you mean by orthogonal in this context? The dictionary definition I found seems like it's related metaphorically, but I can't parse the metaphor
                I'm not Arcane, but I suspect he means that the two are mutually exclusive from each other...

                ...and if I'm wrong, I'll let him explain. :P

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                • Originally posted by Master Aquatosic View Post


                  What do you mean by orthogonal in this context? The dictionary definition I found seems like it's related metaphorically, but I can't parse the metaphor
                  To break that down, we need to understand the main framework at which Heroes are at right angles to Beasts as-namely, in a food web.

                  In a conventional food web, with chains more or less running from the base provider to the top tier predators, you expect most of your problems to be from the predator class above you. Sure, you do have to worry about the adept defenders of the prey, they can mess you up, but as it goes, most of your sense of threat comes from above your head.

                  Applying that to Beast, you may have to worry about humanity's defenders in the form hunters giving you trouble, but for the most part, your 'bigger fish' are other Beasts, supernaturals with more oomph than you, Horrors, Dreamborn, and Royal Avatars bigger than you, etc. etc. all the way up to the Dark Mother. Beast's ecology, while odd, mostly makes clear sense that way. (For the record, this gonna mean I actually rescind the Insatiable comment-they also have an orthogonal relationship to Beasts) You want to fight a monster, you bring in a bigger monsters.

                  Heroes are not bigger fish. In fact, they have a fuzzy relationship to concepts of predator, prey, scavenger, etc. on the whole. On the one hand, they seem like they fall under that adept protector class of prey, except that their mindsets and metaphysical toolset skew highly predatorial-but they also aren't so well equipped to stand clearly as the ones who feast on Beasts. THey straddle this odd line between the two.

                  This is the groundwork of some of their horror, because every logical sense that they should either calm the fuck down back down into protector sort of role or continue to ramp up until they become some kind of bigger fish over Beasts, with this middling approach seemingly working against them*, setting them up to get knocked down as they lack both herd advantage and greater predatorial advantage against monsters who know how to exploit that to high hell...except it works. It works so well that our history is littered with their tales.( Granted, Beast nature lets Heroic victory stand out more than Primoridal victory.)

                  Ecologically, Heroes make no sense, and they seem like they should be punished by the basic rules of predacity-but there's this strange fatalistic force behind them that seems to ensure their victory against the odds, this writing on the wall of the cave defying the teeth, the claws, the sheer girth, the wings and fire of the Beast. Sure, Heroes have advantages, even specialized ones to help take Beasts down, but that should still lead to about an even win-loss rate. Beasts and Heroes can fight with the same degree of dirty tactics and vicious escalation, and a Beast theoretically always has a larger toolset to do so with, but for all of that, Heroes seem to win a whole lot more than they should.

                  The horror of Beasts is not, nor should it be, that they are the bigger fish. Their horror is rooted in that they seem to win a whole lot, and no one really gets why because the big picture doesn't make sense that way. The most obvious alternative is, well.

                  Fate and fatalism.

                  *Normally this would be the point where I elucidate how humans are kind of top tier terminator-predator type, but in this case we run into Cornelius's Lament on an ecological level, namely Beasts are "humans" too.
                  Last edited by ArcaneArts; 12-17-2018, 04:49 PM.


                  Sean K.I.W./Kelly R.A. Steele, Freelance Writer(Feel free to call me Sean, Kelly, Arcane, or Arc)
                  The world is not beautiful, therefore it is.-Keiichi Sigsawa, Kino's Journey
                  Feminine pronouns, please.

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                  • Strange but interesting question:
                    It s possibile (theorically) to put the family ties comdition on Heroes?

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                    • Originally posted by Neos01 View Post
                      Strange but interesting question:
                      It s possibile (theorically) to put the family ties comdition on Heroes?
                      Technically, no. They don't tap into the emotional tapestry of other supernaturals. Where all other monsters either prey on mankind or cause one of more fears that make them resonant to the Idea of Fear and thus, astrally speaking, all children of the Dark Mother, Heroes are more of a reaction to that, one which embodies different emotions and hopes.

                      That said:

                      It's the kind of plot that can happen. The good old "No unless it makes for a good story". Heroes can get scary, after all, and their ties to Beast offer all the chances to subvert the Monomyth that way. Might work only with a certain Hero who has developed a special relationship with a Begotten (and that would still be huge) or be the beginning of a giant change in the way the Primordial Dream works, but I'd say it's worth leaving the option open.

                      Getting more personal, I've had it happen in one of my games. The players liked that Hero, they all learned to coexist and eventually managed to obtain the Dark Mother's wary yet intrigued blessing. She kinda went "you know, you're both empowered by myths and dreams and care for each other. Have fun"
                      Last edited by Cinder; 01-02-2019, 12:55 PM.


                      Cinder's Comprehensive Collection of Creations - Homebrew Hub

                      I write about Beast: The Primordial a lot

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                      • Originally posted by Cinder View Post
                        Technically, no. They don't tap into the emotional tapestry of other supernaturals. Where all other monsters either prey on mankind or cause one of more fears that make them resonant to the Idea of Fear and thus, astrally speaking, all children of the Dark Mother, Heroes are more of a reaction to that, one which embodies different emotions and hopes.

                        That said:

                        It's the kind of plot that can happen. The good old "No unless it makes for a good story". Heroes can get scary, after all, and their ties to Beast offer all the chances to subvert the Monomyth that way. Might work only with a certain Hero who has developed a special relationship with a Begotten (and that would still be huge) or be the beginning of a giant change in the way the Primordial Dream works, but I'd say it's worth leaving the option open.

                        Getting more personal, I've had it happen in one of my games. The players liked that Hero, they all learned to coexist and eventually managed to obtain the Dark Mother's wary yet intrigued blessing. She kinda went "you know, you're both empowered by myths and dreams and care for each other. Have fun"
                        I was thinking about it while building a villain Npc.
                        The villain is a beast who has undergone the inversion and is a leader of a hero association, i am going to give him hero gift for slained beasts and i was wondering if he could have put family ties on his hero comrades

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                        • Originally posted by Neos01 View Post

                          I was thinking about it while building a villain Npc.
                          The villain is a beast who has undergone the inversion and is a leader of a hero association, i am going to give him hero gift for slained beasts and i was wondering if he could have put family ties on his hero comrades
                          Oooh, that's a nasty one. It would cause all sort ot trouble to PCs, be a terrible threat and make the Dark Mother absolutely livid. Also break things a little.

                          Go for it.


                          Cinder's Comprehensive Collection of Creations - Homebrew Hub

                          I write about Beast: The Primordial a lot

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                          • Originally posted by Cinder View Post
                            Oooh, that's a nasty one. It would cause all sort ot trouble to PCs, be a terrible threat and make the Dark Mother absolutely livid. Also break things a little.

                            Go for it.
                            Glad to see that someone likes the idea ☺, i will also develope heroes kinship nightmare and merits, players will remember him for a long time...

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                            • Hey, Im away from home. Can someone send me the flavour text for the atavism "Enemy Within" from Beast Player Guide?


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                              • How well do humans really know one another? Evolution
                                wired the human brain to pay close attention to only a handful
                                of people. As populations grew, humans favored broad detail
                                over intimate familiarity. The Inguma exploit this weak spot,
                                slipping between the cracks of human programming and passing
                                themselves off as someone familiar.

                                here you go HunterInTheNight

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