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  • Last question, for now
    Can there be lair traits that are distractingly pleasant to be in, like a garden so beautiful that makes one one want to stay forever, or a drugged atmosphere that clouds one’s mind? I know Hoard is in theme, but it doesn’t quite do it in the way I want.


    To whomever reads this, I hope you have a good day/night. May you be Happy.

    So, I made some Mage Legacies here, with some help. They vary in quality, but I hope you take a look at them. Every one contains pieces of me, for better or worse.

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    • Originally posted by TempleBuilder View Post
      Last question, for now
      Can there be lair traits that are distractingly pleasant to be in, like a garden so beautiful that makes one one want to stay forever, or a drugged atmosphere that clouds one’s mind? I know Hoard is in theme, but it doesn’t quite do it in the way I want.
      You get to the Primordial Dream from the Bright Dream by navigating toward places that are scary and less likely to have people in them. The Begotten's mental powers that provide a benefit to their subject do so through fear. The cultural tendency of these monsters occupying the oldest part of the human psyche is to portray themselves honestly in the deepest parts of their sanctuary/hunting-ground. The resonance necessary to expand that hunting ground is partially managed by the presence of Lair Traits. The Horror hunts uninvited guests unless the Beast prevents it from doing so by using its form to do something else.

      You can have stuff in your Lair that's distracting and/or pleasant, but making those things able to be reproduced elsewhere through the basic resonance daisy-chain quickly risks turning a Beast into something other than an image-conscious nightmare-cryptid.


      Resident Lore-Hound
      Currently Consuming: Hunter: the Vigil 1e

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      • Originally posted by TempleBuilder View Post
        Last question, for now
        Can there be lair traits that are distractingly pleasant to be in, like a garden so beautiful that makes one one want to stay forever, or a drugged atmosphere that clouds one’s mind? I know Hoard is in theme, but it doesn’t quite do it in the way I want.
        Lair traits are designed in such a way that the mechanics are fairly understandable, in that they almost always impose penalties to attributes or inflict conditions. So you could, for example, choose a trait like Stench and explain it as overwhelmingly pleasant smells caused by flowers in the lair. The penalty to exertion becomes one of apathy or a desire not to stop smelling. Or Maze and the Int + Comp roll is to shake of the effect and leave. This is all briefly addressed on page 102 of the core book. What is more important to consider than the mechanics though is the way the description works with similarities for imposing traits or accessing the Lair. In this extended example it would be pretty obvious that the Beast could use a florist, a garden in bloom, a perfume counter at a retail store. They themselves also gain immunity to naturally occurring instances of this trait. To my knowledge none of the books give explicit rules for the limits of trait beyond the statement "they may provide dice penalties or bonuses to Skills, or count as Extreme Environments." However, in trying to design some of my own by tabulating all the existing ones and what they do I came to the realisation that everything I was thinking of could be better done re-flavouring the ones that exist rather than making new ones.


        "The ego is not king of its own castle."

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        • What Family and Hunger would you call for Mytha, the Baneful Queen from Dark Souls 2? Is she the rare Namtaru with Alien Allure? Is that even possible? The player's guide says "No matter what amalgam of features a Namtaru may possess, no alien beauty arises from gazing upon him". For context, I'm trying to place most of the Monsters I see in the context of Beast. I find most of bosses form Dark Souls are Anakim, but there are exceptions.


          To whomever reads this, I hope you have a good day/night. May you be Happy.

          So, I made some Mage Legacies here, with some help. They vary in quality, but I hope you take a look at them. Every one contains pieces of me, for better or worse.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by TempleBuilder View Post
            What Family and Hunger would you call for Mytha, the Baneful Queen from Dark Souls 2? Is she the rare Namtaru with Alien Allure? Is that even possible? The player's guide says "No matter what amalgam of features a Namtaru may possess, no alien beauty arises from gazing upon him". For context, I'm trying to place most of the Monsters I see in the context of Beast. I find most of bosses form Dark Souls are Anakim, but there are exceptions.
            The link is broken, I can't see that image

            Anyway, there is a legend of the white ladies, some ghostly ladies that are increadibly beautiful ghost right until they aren't and pounce on their prey turning hideus right before they kill their prey, normally a guy that fell for her charms...come to think of it, that trailer of the witcher where Gerald fights a monter lady and kills her by poisoning his own blood is a good example of a Namtaru with Allien Allure

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            • Originally posted by Aeveth View Post

              The link is broken, I can't see that image
              Sigh. Is this better?

              https://igorgrechanyi.cgsociety.org/...the-baneful-qu

              Basically, in case the link still doesn’t work, Mytha looks like a serpent centaur, or lamia. She also carries her own severed head. She resides in a bathhouse designed to pump what in game is only known as poison to enhance her “beauty”. She even heals from the poisons touch. She did this to herself, to try and attract the attention of her love that spurned her. Fromsoft can and has done very effective nightmare fuel. They chose to make her sort of conventionally attractive. I’m not phased by snakes, but I know a lot of people are. This makes it hard for me to place her family. She isn’t really about hopelessness, or hidden and unseen. She definitely has nothing to do with exposure or confinement. Leaves Makara, Namtaru, Inguma. Makara is shaky in my mind, because she really doesn’t have any symbolism of the depths around her, besides maybe having Alien Allure. Her most defining lair traits are Toxic, and Thralls. Doesn’t really invoke the lair of a Makara, which is way more naturally alien to human existence. Inguma is a decent fit, but only in the way Inguma fits literally all monsters descended from humans. Also no Atavisms fit her from Inguma. Finally we have Namtaru. She shares some symbolism with Medusa, but differs in many more. She might be disgusting to some, but I’m sure just as many have no problem with her. The other thing is that the rest of her potential Atavisms are from here. So I’m stuck.

              Originally posted by Aeveth View Post
              Anyway, there is a legend of the white ladies, some ghostly ladies that are increadibly beautiful ghost right until they aren't and pounce on their prey turning hideus right before they kill their prey, normally a guy that fell for her charms...come to think of it, that trailer of the witcher where Gerald fights a monter lady and kills her by poisoning his own blood is a good example of a Namtaru with Allien Allure
              Interesting. I will look this up. Edit: If you have a link I would be much obliged
              Last edited by TempleBuilder; 09-12-2021, 01:18 AM.


              To whomever reads this, I hope you have a good day/night. May you be Happy.

              So, I made some Mage Legacies here, with some help. They vary in quality, but I hope you take a look at them. Every one contains pieces of me, for better or worse.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by TempleBuilder View Post
                Namtaru with Alien Allure and Basilisk Touch?


                MtAw Homebrew:
                Even more Legacies, updated to 2E
                New 2E Legacies, expanded

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                • Originally posted by 21C Hermit View Post

                  Namtaru with Alien Allure and Basilisk Touch?
                  That’s what I would assume, but I keep having doubts. Only other Atavism I would give her is Unbreakable. At least her hunger is easy to place. She is easily a Tyrant.


                  To whomever reads this, I hope you have a good day/night. May you be Happy.

                  So, I made some Mage Legacies here, with some help. They vary in quality, but I hope you take a look at them. Every one contains pieces of me, for better or worse.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by TempleBuilder View Post

                    That’s what I would assume, but I keep having doubts. Only other Atavism I would give her is Unbreakable. At least her hunger is easy to place. She is easily a Tyrant.
                    She’s a beheaded snake thing — it should be repulsive enough for most to count as Namtaru.


                    MtAw Homebrew:
                    Even more Legacies, updated to 2E
                    New 2E Legacies, expanded

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by TempleBuilder View Post

                      That’s what I would assume, but I keep having doubts. Only other Atavism I would give her is Unbreakable. At least her hunger is easy to place. She is easily a Tyrant.
                      I think you're overthinking this. A lot.

                      Alien allure doesn't have to due with beauty, namtaru don't have some special revulsion to having it. Alien allure simply means SOMETHING about the horror attracts people to it.

                      Also, realistically, almost every single mortal seeing her jn real life would DEFINITELY have am issue with the appearance. Like if you don't then you've seen some shit

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                      • So after a quick look up the character, She becomes a decapitated Naga because she drank some poison to try and make herself more beautiful after finding out her husband was thinking of moving on because her beauty wasn't enough(or, more clearly, he was moving on because of other problems with his wife and the beatuy was not enough of a perk to keep at it, and Mytha took that as "Damn gurl, y can't u be mor beautifullers?"), and her aesthetic is a decapitated naga. On all levels she's a Namtaru, probably a Collector since her balm ot her fears is to accumulate and cultivate more of the posion in question.

                        The Namtaru can and do possess things like the Striking Looks Merit and the Alien Allure Atavism-what kind of bronze-gothic horror game would this be if there was no gothic romance of decay-but the point of that for the Namtaru is to understand that entropic romanticism is a response to that decaying of physical, psychic, and spiritual forms. That society marches towards it's taboos is no surprise, and that some fear responses include the fetishization and submission to that frightful thing is not particularly controversial. It's clear that at some point, Mytha's standards changed and accepted this current state.

                        I"m not sure I would call her a Beast, though. Obviously because a) Dark Souls is not going to neatly line up with other game's outlook on things, but also b) a big part of what the Devouring is is learning that your fears are a part of of you, getting to real roots of that fear, and learning to embrace that as a part of yourself while cutting out the more superficial and more useless reads of "Why this scares me?" Mytha doesn't strike me as having internalized anything-if anything, she seems consumed by her fears in a way that's more befitting the Insatiable (and boy howdy is Dark Souls a great game series to find Insatiable) or the not-book-canon-at-all instance of where a nascent Beast skips Beastdom and is instead devoured straight into becoming a Rampant. But that's all academic.

                        Also, while I'm not one to question a person's sense of aesthetics or their fetishes and kink, I'll freely admit "Oh yeah baby, you got some kind of Alien Allure going on there" was not a response I had the first few times I looked at the pictures in question. Different strokes for different folks, though.
                        Last edited by ArcaneArts; 09-12-2021, 07:04 PM.


                        Sean K.I.W./Kelly R.A. Steele, Freelance Writer(Feel free to call me Sean, Kelly, Arcane, or Arc)
                        The world is not beautiful, therefore it is.-Keiichi Sigsawa, Kino's Journey
                        Feminine pronouns, please.

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                        • Originally posted by Primordial newcomer View Post

                          I think you're overthinking this. A lot.
                          Well, it wouldn’t be the first time. Definitely won’t be the last.

                          Originally posted by Primordial newcomer View Post
                          Alien allure doesn't have to due with beauty, namtaru don't have some special revulsion to having it. Alien allure simply means SOMETHING about the horror attracts people to it.
                          Oh, that makes sense.

                          Originally posted by Primordial newcomer View Post
                          Also, realistically, almost every single mortal seeing her jn real life would DEFINITELY have am issue with the appearance. Like if you don't then you've seen some shit
                          I guess I’m jaded then? Because I frankly would be a lot more worried about the spear than her appearance. I don’t know, she doesn’t seem that horrifying. The decapitation is pretty weird, but in the moment I doubt I would even notice.Then again, I’ve have a gun pointed at me and I didn’t really have much of a reaction at the time, or really ever. (I accidentally trespassed while at night, and drove off the road. Got lucky they stayed calm.) So maybe I’m not a good metric on how normal people react.

                          Originally posted by ArcaneArts View Post
                          So after a quick look up the character, She becomes a decapitated Naga because she drank some poison to try and make herself more beautiful after finding out her husband was thinking of moving on because her beauty wasn't enough, and her aesthetic is a decapitated naga. On all levels she's a Namtaru, probably a Collector since her balm ot her fears is to accumulate and cultivate more of the posion in question.
                          Great point! I was thinking about how she started requiring her servants to be veiled, and made her creations headless so they could not gaze on her, but that’s a really good point about her gathering poison to herself.
                          Originally posted by ArcaneArts View Post
                          The Namtaru can and do possess things like the Striking Looks Merit and the Alien Allure Atavism-what kind of bronze-gothic horror game would this be if there was no gothic romance of decay-but the point of that for the Namtaru is to understand that entropic romanticism is a response to that decaying of physical, psychic, and spiritual forms. That society marches towards it's taboos is no surprise, and that some fear responses include the fetishization and submission to that frightful thing is not particularly controversial. It's clear that at some point, Mytha's standards changed and accepted this current state.
                          Clearly, I’ve not read enough Gothic Horror. I’m not used to the idea of romanticized entropy, but I guess it must exist. Hmm, I wonder if the fetishization of fear explains some of the stranger things I’ve seen. Like the not completely untrue memes of being attracted to the Dead by Daylights killers.
                          Originally posted by ArcaneArts View Post
                          I"m not sure I would call her a Beast, though. Obviously because a) Dark Souls is not going to neatly line up with other game's outlook on things, but also b) a big part of what the Devouring is is learning that your fears are a part of of you, getting to real roots of that fear, and learning to embrace that as a part of yourself while cutting out the more superficial and more useless reads of "Why this scares me?" Mytha doesn't strike me as having internalized anything-if anything, she seems consumed by her fears in a way that's more befitting the Insatiable (and boy howdy is Dark Souls a great game series to find Insatiable) or the not-book-canon-at-all instance of where a nascent Beast skips Beastdom and is instead devoured straight into becoming a Rampant. But that's all academic.
                          I think she fits a self-made Deviant more than anything, but yeah. Dark Souls doesn’t really fit Beast well at all, but this started as a exercise to try and see Monsters through a Beast lens. Dark Souls likes to draw from Mythical symbolism, so I thought it would be fun to start there. The Insatiable are in Conquering Heroes, right? Clearly I need to pick that up to see the difference between them and Beasts.
                          Originally posted by ArcaneArts View Post
                          Also, while I'm not one to question a person's sense of aesthetics or their fetishes and kink, I'll freely admit "Oh yeah baby, you got some kind of Alien Allure going on there" was not a response I had the first few times I looked at the pictures in question. Different strokes for different folks, though.
                          Truthfully, I really don’t get which creatures should have Alien Allure. I’ve just been going with whether or not I think a particular thing is being played for fan service. Other bosses are more warped from normal human standards. That she looks vaguely human, and has lots of references to having made herself look “beautiful“ is enough for me. I’ve also seen references that people like her. Part of the problem is that I don’t really have a good sense of positive aesthetics.
                          Honestly, I don’t get why mermaids, sirens, any other “beautiful” monster are considered such. What exactly is supernatural beauty? Like, is it a illusion like glamor? Are the monsters just supposed to be human enough where “beauty” applies? Is it mind control? Am I overthinking it, or fundamentally misunderstanding it? Probably.

                          Edited: Because it probably provides too much personal information.
                          Last edited by TempleBuilder; 09-12-2021, 09:01 PM.


                          To whomever reads this, I hope you have a good day/night. May you be Happy.

                          So, I made some Mage Legacies here, with some help. They vary in quality, but I hope you take a look at them. Every one contains pieces of me, for better or worse.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by TempleBuilder View Post
                            Well, it wouldn’t be the first time. Definitely won’t be the last.

                            Oh, that makes sense.

                            I guess I’m jaded then? Because I frankly would be a lot more worried about the spear than her appearance. I don’t know, she doesn’t seem that horrifying. The decapitation is pretty weird, but in the moment I doubt I would even notice.Then again, I’ve have a gun pointed at me and I didn’t really have much of a reaction at the time, or really ever. (I accidentally trespassed while at night, and drove off the road. Got lucky they stayed calm.) So maybe I’m not a good metric on how normal people react.

                            Great point! I was thinking about how she started requiring her servants to be veiled, and made her creations headless so they could not gaze on her, but that’s a really good point about her gathering poison to herself.
                            Clearly, I’ve not read enough Gothic Horror. I’m not used to the idea of romanticized entropy, but I guess it must exist. Hmm, I wonder if the fetishization of fear explains some of the stranger things I’ve seen. Like the not completely untrue memes of being attracted to the Dead by Daylights killers.
                            I think she fits a self-made Deviant more than anything, but yeah. Dark Souls doesn’t really fit Beast well at all, but this started as a exercise to try and see Monsters through a Beast lens. Dark Souls likes to draw from Mythical symbolism, so I thought it would be fun to start there. The Insatiable are in Conquering Heroes, right? Clearly I need to pick that up to see the difference between them and Beasts.
                            Truthfully, I really don’t get which creatures should have Alien Allure. I’ve just been going with whether or not I think a particular thing is being played for fan service. Other bosses are more warped from normal human standards. That she looks vaguely human, and has lots of references to having made herself look “beautiful“ is enough for me. I’ve also seen references that people like her. Part of the problem is that I don’t really have a good sense of positive aesthetics.
                            Honestly, I don’t get why mermaids, sirens, any other “beautiful” monster are considered such. What exactly is supernatural beauty? Like, is it a illusion like glamor? Are the monsters just supposed to be human enough where “beauty” applies? Is it mind control? Am I overthinking it, or fundamentally misunderstanding it? Probably.

                            Edited: Because it probably provides too much personal information.
                            Just focusing on the reply to me. I sincerely think that if you were to see her in real life, you'd be disgusted. It's easy to see something in a video game so much it don't matter, but in real life it's WAY different. Like not even comparable

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                            • Originally posted by Primordial newcomer View Post

                              Just focusing on the reply to me. I sincerely think that if you were to see her in real life, you'd be disgusted. It's easy to see something in a video game so much it don't matter, but in real life it's WAY different. Like not even comparable
                              Absolutely. Maybe I’m wrong. But my past experience says I under react to things. *shrug*


                              To whomever reads this, I hope you have a good day/night. May you be Happy.

                              So, I made some Mage Legacies here, with some help. They vary in quality, but I hope you take a look at them. Every one contains pieces of me, for better or worse.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by TempleBuilder View Post
                                Clearly, I’ve not read enough Gothic Horror. I’m not used to the idea of romanticized entropy, but I guess it must exist. Hmm, I wonder if the fetishization of fear explains some of the stranger things I’ve seen. Like the not completely untrue memes of being attracted to the Dead by Daylights killers.
                                It's definitely a good idea to get into gothic/Romantic(not romantic) literature, goth cinema, and the gothic subculture on the whole the longer one relates to and experiences the Chronicles- and World- of Darkness franchise, though not neccesary. I (and many other writers) read Byron and watched The Crow so you don't have to.

                                Also, because it's loosely related to this topic and I love it:



                                Sean K.I.W./Kelly R.A. Steele, Freelance Writer(Feel free to call me Sean, Kelly, Arcane, or Arc)
                                The world is not beautiful, therefore it is.-Keiichi Sigsawa, Kino's Journey
                                Feminine pronouns, please.

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