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Unbreakable Too Strong?

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  • Unbreakable Too Strong?

    Specifically, when one spends Satiety to gain scene-long aggravated damage resistance and downgrading lethal to bashing. Especially since it can synergize effectively with Iron Skin Advanced/Epic and, just as frighteningly, Relentless, allowing you to regenerate bashing every turn.

    What is your opinion on this? Have any of you playtested it?

    My main concern is that those one or two atavisms is far and away better than any other given one from a munch perspective.


    We don't allow mages to cast spells, since this is the most unbalancing rule of all.

  • #2
    They're not really better than any others. For certain concepts, sure. They'd have very little utility for my current Beast character, for example - one with a huge focus on social skills who is very, very, very good at avoiding combat.

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    • #3
      Ehhhh..... its actually not that great when you get down to it. I mean, sure, you can stack lots of armor and everything up to be negating tons of damage. But, lets compare this super-armor character against whom we'd be fighting against.

      1) Heroes. All you need is one Bane Anathema, and all that armor is worthless. We're talking the merits, the Atavism, and it seems that the mundane armor as well. Trying to rid yourself of the Anathema puts you into the Ravenous Condition, where you're literally dying, do not benefit from Low Satiety benefits, cannot use Nightmares, and a host of other issues PLUS still have the bane until Ravenous is resolved. That's a huge risk.

      2) Fellow Beasts. Weapons and damage scale from Atavisms scale faster than armor, and agg damage bypasses mundane armor. Magical and mental attacks can also mess with your ability to fight. Swarm forms are a thing. Armor doesn't save you against Poison, and elemental attacks often can ignore .

      3) Other supernaturals. Same as #2, but with slightly different details.


      Numbers might look high, but this is 2e. Power level is higher for everyone in every way. Twinking out armor looks good, but an equivalent EXP challenger in a fight will still be able to hurt you, if not flat out take over your mind. I've created characters that specialize in absurdly high (20+) Defense. That far and away doesn't make them untouchable.

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      • #4
        Unbreakable is kind of strange in that it's quite potent at character creation when most of the scaling abilities have values of 1 or 2, but it does not keep up at all against high Lair enemies.

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        • #5
          Originally posted by MCN View Post

          2) Fellow Beasts. Weapons and damage scale from Atavisms scale faster than armor, and agg damage bypasses mundane armor. Magical and mental attacks can also mess with your ability to fight. Swarm forms are a thing. Armor doesn't save you against Poison, and elemental attacks often can ignore .

          Not entirely true. Spending satiety means Unbreakable applies to agg/is not bypassed.
          There is some confused Regarding whether mundane armor applies to agg (See Other Thread Regarding unbreakable) but I side with those that think it should apply unless illogical (otherwise, Statements along the lines of 'this attack ignores armor' would be meaningless For agg)
          Agree that it is not overpowered though.

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          • #6
            Originally posted by HelmsDerp View Post
            Unbreakable is kind of strange in that it's quite potent at character creation when most of the scaling abilities have values of 1 or 2, but it does not keep up at all against high Lair enemies.
            I kind of wish it did scale off Lair.

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            • #7
              I think that it very deliberately does not scale with Lair, because you have to keep Heroes (fundamentally human antagonists) relevant at every level. Having 4 points of armor is a big deal when your main antagonist remains a human with an antique sword. Being able to scale beyond that can be rather problematic.

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              • #8
                There are Anathema that bypass armor, and Heroes aren't relevant in direct combat for higher Lair Beasts anyway because it's highly unlikely they'll survive two rounds.

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                • #9
                  Actually, I find that they rather ARE relevant at higher Lair, so that's nothing more than a matter of playstyle and tactics. Relying on specific Anathema is kinda difficult from a ST standpoint, since that requires the Beast in question can have a different Anathema than one that bypasses armor. Or just, you know, not stay in the Middle Satiety levels long enough that such an Anathema can be applied easily in time with the plot. Its simply too unreliable, since a good chunk of Anathtema rely on PC actions and involvements.

                  And, even beyond that, there's the question of antagonistic fellow supernaturals remaining a threat. Alternatively, having a high Lair enemy be possible to deal with by PCs with lower Lair scores. The point is that non-scaling armor is a pretty solid idea for the game that is beneficial to story from multiple angles, whereas scaling armor doesn't seem to have any benefit from a story perspective.
                  Last edited by MCN; 10-17-2016, 09:05 AM.

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                  • #10
                    It's quite the advantage at the start of a campaign, but as soon as the antagonists move from random mundane thugs to supernatural and/or well-armed and prepared foes, it probably won't be enough to keep a character alive by itself.


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                    • #11
                      On the other hand, when stacked with Looming Presence and Relentless Hunter along with the Advanced and Epic Iron Skin merits it's still really nice even at higher levels, especially if you spend Satiety.

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