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  • Originally posted by Aspel View Post
    TheStranjer Calling something "SJW" is childish. It's barely even true, and if you're running a game where Beasts would be allowed that isn't a Beast game, "banning" people from playing that is silly.
    I don't see how it's silly to control which splats people are allowed to play on a game that you own and operate. In fact, doing so has been done for decades at this juncture, literally. It's par for the course.

    There are some pretty serious issues with the splat that make me not want to allow people to play them.

    For one, it stresses very early on how Beasts are the Good Guys and how them fucking people up is really for their own good because humanity needs to be taught "lessons." It also stresses early on how Beasts were all "different" as children, and typically got bullied, abused, neglected, etc, as a consequence of this. It's also stressed how Heroes aren't really heroic, and are really just egomaniacs, evil jocks, etc. There is a lot of effort put into making these antagonists unsympathetic. Thing is, sympathetic antagonists are good antagonists. They make storytelling more fun, not less fun. This effort to make Beasts (creatures who fuck people up to teach them "lessons") look sympathetic while making Heroes (the people who try to stop them from doing this) look like stupid bullies who hurt innocent Beasts who dindu nuffin because they don't "get it" is extremely cringey to me. This is where I get the crybullying part of my statement from: Beasts do bad things, terrible things to people, and them playing the victim when Heroes consequence them for it is built right into the game's lore.

    Another issue is how ideology is injected into the game. One of the sample Heroes (of only a handful) is a m'ladying MRA incel with a trilby. This is where I get the "SJW" part from. If you're going to insert ideologically charged stereotypes into your game, be prepared for people who don't agree with your politics to dislike that game.

    The final issue that I'm going to raise in this post is how overpowered they are. Abruption is a Condition that someone can face because an exceptional success was landed against them, or the Bad Blood Nightmare was used against them, etc. What Abruption does is it disables all supernatural effects, and the only way to resolve it is by admitting your "inferiority" to the Beast who gave it to you. You do not get a Beat for this. Also doing this gives you the Beaten Down Tilt, which basically removes him from the fight. Not only is this overpowered, but it's reminiscent of Maoist struggle sessions. From Wikipedia: "In general, the victim of a struggle session was forced to admit to various crimes before a crowd of people who would verbally and physically abuse the victim until he or she confessed. Struggle sessions were often held at the workplace of the accused, but were sometimes conducted in sports stadiums where large crowds would gather if the target was famous enough."

    So feel free to suspend or ban me for stating this opinion, but no, I don't like your game about being a smug SJW crybully with struggle session magic powers, I'm not paying money for it, and I'm not participating in any games that involve them. Just no. Deal with it.

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    • Narrow read if ever I read one, but sure, you do you.

      Just don't waste the time of the people who are in a thread about Selling Beast. There's threads a-plenty to rant in, this is not it.


      Sean K.I.W./Kelly R.A. Steele, Freelance Writer(Feel free to call me Sean, Kelly, Arcane, or Arc)
      The world is not beautiful, therefore it is.-Keiichi Sigsawa, Kino's Journey
      Feminine pronouns, please.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by ArcaneArts View Post
        Narrow read if ever I read one, but sure, you do you.

        Just don't waste the time of the people who are in a thread about Selling Beast. There's threads a-plenty to rant in, this is not it.
        If you want to sell Beast, errata that shit out of it.

        Comment


        • OK, so now I'm getting that sort of creepy/chummy "we're all monsters here" vibe I got from talking to Pischa in the old hospital in V:tM Bloodlines. That's kind of cool.
          I've heard a lot of complaints about the crossover elements, and I think I understand why. No matter how crossover-friendly Beast is, the other gamelines are generally pretty crossover-unfriendly. Beasts feel like they make sense more often as NPCs or antagonists in something like Mage or Changeling.
          If, on the other hand, you want to do a general Chronicles of Darkness game and play with a grab bag of random splats, then Beast would make sense as a springboard for that.

          As for feeding, eh. It still feels like I'm being given a choice of playing Dexter or Principal Ed Rooney. It just about makes sense as a mechanic for forcing players to get involved in important story-stuff (the Magneto approach), but the "lessons" thing seems pretty weak. And also insufferable. Would you rather be screwed over by a random asshole, or by someone who insists there's a "lesson" in it and they're really doing you a favor? If I had to play one or the other, I'd definitely prefer the random asshole approach and not pretend there was anything more to it.
          What I can say, is that while playing a deliberately low-Wisdom mage never appealed, for example, playing a deliberately low-Saitiety Beast at odds with their Horror actually seems fairly compelling.

          I like the idea of Heroes as narrative obstacles, similar to Paradox, though. That's a cool read. One other thing I noted is that becoming a Hero is really similar to becoming a Mage: you have to lean in to the supernatural weirdness and pursue it. If you back out, no Mage, no Hero. On the one hand, it makes me wonder a little why mages are seen as kin. On the other, could be a pretty good hook. A mage meets an old friend that they investigated a mystery with, the friend didn't Awaken, they drifted apart. And now the friend is back, and there's something different about them... Any maybe they're hunting a proper monster who pals around with slashers and liches, and maybe they're just hunting a jerk, or maybe they're hunting a genuinely nice person who is paying the price for not hurting people.

          Also, whoa, Irem?! Google tells me it's a thing in Mummy, but now I kind of want to do Chronicles of Darkness: Sunless Sea.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by TheStranjer View Post

            So feel free to suspend or ban me for stating this opinion, but no, I don't like your game about being a smug SJW crybully with struggle session magic powers, I'm not paying money for it, and I'm not participating in any games that involve them. Just no. Deal with it.
            Meaning no offence, if you're not paying money for the game and don't want to play it... why are you here? It's an honest question. Would it not be more constructive of you to argue points A) on a thread which is devoted to that argument and/or B) leave alone those who are having a conversation you clearly are against on a fundamental level.

            The point of the game is that of Beasts and Heroes, the only ones who have the moral high ground are those Heroes who refrain from hunting Beasts and work to make the world a better place. Beasts can try, and they can do good, but that good will always be stained by their arguably inherently evil natures. Heroes who succumb to the Monomyth are deluded and misguided individuals, many caring little for those around them in their quest for a nebulous 'glory'. The reasons that the book stresses that of these latter, Beasts are the good guys are twofold: 1) the book is written from the perspective of Beasts, not Heroes or mortals and 2) we instinctively see monsters as evil. Therefore effort must be put in to soften this, in order to let the player characters be 'good' at all. I agree that the book could have perhaps done this in a better way but this conflict, with deep self-delusion on both sides, is an inherent part of it. It's not explained the best but the idea and concept are an excellent attempt to grasp the relationship of humanity with the monsters that we fear and give power through our fear.


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            • Originally posted by Niknokk View Post
              OWould you rather be screwed over by a random asshole, or by someone who insists there's a "lesson" in it and they're really doing you a favor? If I had to play one or the other, I'd definitely prefer the random asshole approach and not pretend there was anything more to it.
              You could pretty much play this exercise with any game (even beyond the WoD) where the core PCs are also monsters.

              Would you rather play vampires where vampires have ideologies that regard to feeding, or they casually drain people dry and not pretend there's more to vampires than being a parasite?
              Would you rather play werewolves that put their unending urge to hunt to philosophic goals,or mindless wolves that hunt on full moons without pretending there's anything more to them than that?
              Etc.

              The main PCs of the CofD game lines are monsters. They do horrible things by human standards. If the games want to provide any sort of game-play depth to those things, there has to be more to them than just doing them and moving on without consequences.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by TheStranjer View Post
                If you want to sell Beast, errata that shit out of it.
                Disregarding my inclination one way or another, the thread is Sell Beast the way it is. Not "Sell This Game with tons of hacks". The audience is curious why people like the game the way it is.

                You don't like it the way it is. You've dropped the curtain on your uncertain and made that quite clear. You are not the target audience of this conversation.

                You are also not adding to the conversation. Like I said, there are tons of threads asking or bemoaning what is wrong with the game. You can go spin your uglies around there. You might even make traction.

                Here, you are useless.


                Sean K.I.W./Kelly R.A. Steele, Freelance Writer(Feel free to call me Sean, Kelly, Arcane, or Arc)
                The world is not beautiful, therefore it is.-Keiichi Sigsawa, Kino's Journey
                Feminine pronouns, please.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by TheStranjer View Post
                  So feel free to suspend or ban me for stating this opinion, but no, I don't like your game about being a smug SJW crybully with struggle session magic powers
                  If you insist.


                  Going by Willow now, or Wil for short. She/Her/Hers.

                  Comment


                  • TheStranjer You're making some pretty big leaps with your interpretation of Beast. A lot of them aren't really even there in the final product, even if they were there in the original. I'm pretty sure we've had many an anonymous spat about Beast, so I won't really bother to go into it, though. If you don't like the themes you see in the game, then fine, but when you're ranting and raving about how terrible it is to a bunch of people that don't really share your opinion, you're not really doing anything worthwhile.
                    And don't even act like I'm some militant lover of Beast, either (sidenote: Militant Lover of Beasts sounds like a good concept album for an experimental alt-rock group). I managed to point out several of the game's flaws without using loaded anti-progressive buzzwords that tend to be used by the kind of people the book paints as villains, as you see it. More than that, I just flat out don't see most of your argument as being true. Even the Gamergate references were removed last I checked. It's a game about playing horrible assholes who justify their existence as being part of a larger narrative. They don't say that they're the "good guys". I mean, isn't Abjuration a Condition that an NPC gives as part of the setting, in a way that's intentionally set up to create conflict?
                    Also, you should really keep the 4chan rhetoric on 4chan. I love that you went and complained. That's what's likely to get you banned, not going "I don't like thing".

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Heavy Arms View Post

                      You could pretty much play this exercise with any game (even beyond the WoD) where the core PCs are also monsters.

                      Would you rather play vampires where vampires have ideologies that regard to feeding, or they casually drain people dry and not pretend there's more to vampires than being a parasite?
                      Would you rather play werewolves that put their unending urge to hunt to philosophic goals,or mindless wolves that hunt on full moons without pretending there's anything more to them than that?
                      Etc.

                      The main PCs of the CofD game lines are monsters. They do horrible things by human standards. If the games want to provide any sort of game-play depth to those things, there has to be more to them than just doing them and moving on without consequences.
                      That's true. I'm not entirely sure why Beast bothers me more for that than similar games. Lessee;

                      In Vampire, "personal horror" is the main theme, or at least A main theme; the tension between "I'm an abominable predator and actually, this feels pretty good!"
                      The Vampire is explicitly at odds with their Beast. The closest thing to a "default B:tP" mindset seems to be the Lancea Sanctum, but even other Vampires are pretty skeeved out by them.
                      The game assumes you were a regular person turned into a monster and now you have to cope, and everything in the game flows fairly organically out of that. Bluntly, there ISN'T more to vampires than being a parasite, but you were turned into one anyway, and the drama comes from dealing with that.

                      I'm having trouble finding a similarly compelling viewpoint into Beast. I'm even kind of unclear if you're playing a human-with-a-passenger, or a monster-with-a-mask. If I'm playing a human, haunted by a kraken, I'm going to feel differently about things than if I am the Kraken. If I'm going to gleefully identify with the Kraken, I need to be the Kraken. If I am the Kraken, then yes, absolutely, lets sign on with Sea Shepherd and gorge ourselves on illegal fishermen. If I'm a regular person haunted by a Kraken, I think I'd be horrified if it suggested that, and I don't think compromising on "lets go flood someone's house while they're asleep" would make me feel much better, even if the person was also a jerk.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Niknokk View Post

                        I'm having trouble finding a similarly compelling viewpoint into Beast. I'm even kind of unclear if you're playing a human-with-a-passenger, or a monster-with-a-mask. If I'm playing a human, haunted by a kraken, I'm going to feel differently about things than if I am the Kraken. If I'm going to gleefully identify with the Kraken, I need to be the Kraken. If I am the Kraken, then yes, absolutely, lets sign on with Sea Shepherd and gorge ourselves on illegal fishermen. If I'm a regular person haunted by a Kraken, I think I'd be horrified if it suggested that, and I don't think compromising on "lets go flood someone's house while they're asleep" would make me feel much better, even if the person was also a jerk.
                        The thing is, and this is probably going to be the most unsatisfying answer in history, is that different Beasts have different perspectives on this. Some of them see themselves as monsters-with-masks while some of them see themselves as humans-with-passengers. The truth is probably somewhere in between, where the Horror and the human part are not the same thing, but are more like two facets of a gem. They're different (although not necessarily that different) but are ultimately parts of the same whole. If you want a more cliched metaphor, they're sides of a coin. They've got different patterns but they're the same coin.


                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Niknokk View Post
                          It just about makes sense as a mechanic for forcing players to get involved in important story-stuff (the Magneto approach), but the "lessons" thing seems pretty weak. And also insufferable. Would you rather be screwed over by a random asshole, or by someone who insists there's a "lesson" in it and they're really doing you a favor? If I had to play one or the other, I'd definitely prefer the random asshole approach and not pretend there was anything more to it.
                          I've brought up a particular Tarantino line twice before in response to this read and I figure one more can't hurt, particularly in a thread for selling the game:

                          Originally posted by Jules Winnfield, Pulp Fiction
                          Ezekiel 25:17. "The path of the righteous man is beset on all sides by the iniquities of the selfish and the tyranny of evil men. Blessed is he who, in the name of charity and good will, shepherds the weak through the valley of darkness, for he is truly his brother's keeper and the finder of lost children. And I will strike down upon thee with great vengeance and furious anger those who attempt to poison and destroy my brothers. And you will know my name is the Lord when I lay my vengeance upon thee."

                          I been saying that shit for years. And if you heard it, that meant your ass. I never gave much thought to what it meant. I just thought it was some cold-blooded shit to say to a motherfucker before I popped a cap in his ass.

                          But I saw some shit this morning made me think twice. See, now I'm thinking, maybe it means you're the evil man, and I'm the righteous man, and Mr. 9 Millimeter here? He's the shepherd protecting my righteous ass in the valley of darkness. Or it could mean you're the righteous man and I'm the shepherd and it's the world that's evil and selfish. Now I'd like that. But that shit ain't the truth.

                          The truth is…you're the weak, and I am the tyranny of evil men. But I'm trying, Ringo. I'm trying real hard to be the shepherd.


                          One other thing I noted is that becoming a Hero is really similar to becoming a Mage: you have to lean in to the supernatural weirdness and pursue it. If you back out, no Mage, no Hero. On the one hand, it makes me wonder a little why mages are seen as kin.
                          The thing about Heroes in contrast to mages is that the Awakened lean into the strangeness because they're obsessed; one doesn't "become" a Hero, but reaching the point as a Hero where you think the best use of your life is smashing the divers alarums and excursions that populate the Primordial Dream happens because you don't have a proper handle on your self-image.

                          Ritual notwithstanding, Awakened magic draws upon forces that get very messy in the phenomenal world — just being a mage attracts mysterious shenanigans to you and your loved ones by virtue of your being defined by the heavens as someone who investigates mysterious phenomena, and the deepest form of innate magical analysis available to a mage is effectively the metaphysical equivalent of putting it in your mouth.

                          And Beasts know a thing or two about swallowing secrets.


                          Resident Lore-Hound
                          Currently Consuming: Hunter: the Vigil 1e

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                          • Now, where was I?

                            Oh yeah. Selling the game. Let me meander my way to that point.

                            First thing that I need bring up, in relation to all of this, is that I am the sort of person who doesn't believe you can generate anything 'meaningful' until you've embraced the meaningless nature of...well, everything. It's only when you've accepted that you're nothing that you can be anything. My daily fight is against the omnipotent sense of nihilism being right, and the only to prove it wrong is to prove it right first. So, that said, let's start properly meandering our way down through Beast

                            Once upon a time, my middle brother once went camping in the deep, forested wild of Colorado by himself. He describes it as a character changing moment for himself, and I find I have to agree. He seems wiser, more cognizant of his limits and the ways he can overcome them, more inclined to live beyond himself and in the thoughts and feelings of others, even as he disagrees with them. All around, a better person. But it wasn't some cool, kind communion with nature that did it, no.

                            It was the night that did it. The cold, suffocating, invasive hours of immutable shade that pressed and grasped at him. The days stripping human civilization from his brain, the night poking his lizard brain. In that infinite dark, he was laid low and forced to confront himself, in all of his deepest, darkest crevices, every fault and failing and sin of his magnified to giants over him in that night. He speaks in reverential tones he never had for church of the horror he experienced those nights. He speaks with gratitude.

                            I've had moments like that, but I'm getting tired of semi-painting myself as a tragic figure. Suffice it to say, I've hit lows of in the night where new problems, new solutions, new wisdom hit me, where I learned something about myself and the world, things that felt right.

                            Lots of people like to remember the looters of Katrina, the assholes who went around robbing shit because who the fuck was going to stop them. It makes for good press, anytime a catastrophe happens, because the spiral of things getting worse at least increases the drama. For some, it reaffirms the old truths they always knew, the human bastard seen in all it's glory. For others, it's a revelation, a shock and concern, a challenge to their rose-lensed look at the world.

                            Lots of people also like to remember governmental failings, how all the systems in the world didn't get fresh water and food to the people who needed the most. Some took the fight to the hill, demanding we work harder than ever to ensure our emergency responses are faster, fuller, better, and plenty took the fight to the labs and the shops to make the tools that could make it happen. Some shook their head in disgust, in disillusionment about the governemnt and distrust of the human bastard getting anything done, realizing that systems cannot save if the human heart is absent. FOr some, that leads to self-reliance. For some, that leads to greater charity.

                            Less talked about Katrina, and several other catastrophes, is how the survivors came together, how they worked together to make the fires, spread the food, watch the children. How they kept their backs to their meager coals, kept one eye on each other, and one eye outside their sanctums. How people found new worth in one another, how the racial and class divides broken down somewhat. How a tragedy forged a community.

                            Tyler Durden was a "man's man", an asshole who blame society, women in particular, for his 'problems'-but credit where it's due, the asshole got steam by pointing out some true things. Human society does depend far too much on it's stuff to speak for them. People are their bank accounts, the clothes they wear, the contents of their wallets, their bowel cancer, their grande latte, the car they drive.. People have become their fucking khaki's. They keep building wall after wall after wall between them and the field of corpses and allowing themselves to become useless. The species is always at the risk of stagnating, of not evolving. But the question is whether that's okay or not. There's no answer-that's his sin.

                            Buddhists and Hindis alike teach the sins of attachment, how we let ignorance and desire and wrath blind us from true enlightenment and freedom. They ask what in the world is best in life, with an understanding of life that stretches into the abandonment of the illusion we call self. How right are they can be argued about-but one has to wonder what the purpose of the self is in the world.

                            Here's a truth: at the end of the day, the world is uncaring, content in it's meaningless nature. Cruelty and Kindness are illusions of circumstance. And yet, in the starkness of the world, in it's vast meaninglessness, mankind gets the grand view of what matters to them, what needs to be accepted in themselves and what needs to be rejected. Any person who is stripped of place, people, and possessions, of ideas and dreams, can stand in that vastness and feel in their hearts the serenity, the acceptance, the peace that comes with being nothing but the self in the world, to be. In this state, they realize that they are not above the world, but part of it, that they have a place in the embrace of the world, and that their nature that brings them to this place is not an evil, merely a certainty. In the depth of that tranquil horror, it's easy to see a dream, of a world in equilibrium with it's people, where that serenity and oneness with the world can be found, and yet it's cruelties may yet be curtailed. In this zero state, such a dream is not a lie, though it is only a possibility. When a person tells of this vision of awe to others, they may only see and hear with the senses of fear.

                            Mankind fears this mercurial, meaningless thing, and to shelter from the storm, they hunger for security. They build the spear and the hut, hunt the mammoth and make use of it's meat and bones, they build tribes and govern them with order. As they go on, they will raise kingdoms and walls and servant, gather gold and art, write codes of conduct and dedicate people to their governence, and hunt down their threats. In time, the world through these people takes it's toll. Some will use their power and hoard to hurt and control others, hiding behind the punishments they have decreed. Others will stake their claims and lay ruin on the homes of others and the the prey they cultivate. Others will not predate, but merely bow to these forces, and deny themselves the one possibility even the world may yet allow. They hide behind their homes and blankets, tell themselves their checks from their high-placed job will put the food on the table, sure that the courts will save them if the worst should happen. There is no fault in this, for this is the world-but ignorance binds society to their misery, rather than allowing peace.

                            These forces are vast and incomprehensible on their own, and mankind, in their fear of fear and desperation and desire, will develop a defining force, called language, to handle it. They will give the shadows masks, name the storms and disappearances. They will make the vast, meaningless, incomprehensible world and break it down into forms and motives and territories, things to know. From there, they will offer obeisance, or at least seek ways to appease these gods and demons. They seek reconciliation with these monsters. Some think they can be satiated by the very forces they've used to hide from them, with gold or with sheep or with mountain or with taboos or with reverence. Others can only grovel. There is no fault in this, for this is the world.

                            This is the Primordial Dream-a roiling ocean of fear and desperation, the twisting roads of entropy that dictates the very powers that may divide humanity from their fear will only bring them down, populated by the Horrors who reflect the tide that builds and destroys as surely as our every breath gives us life, yet continues on the path of slow fire. It's humanity's inherent weaknesses and flaws-and the serenity in knowing themselves, and the wisdom that can lead to a different future.

                            The world is uncaring, and these dreams of ourselves will crash upon the rocks of our civilization as it will. Mankind is not free from who they are, at the depths of their souls, and they never will be until they are no longer human. And yet, this fear and serenity, for as much as it is humanity, lacks a human touch. It is merely a storm in and of itself, a thing that preys on the world and nothing more.

                            The world is uncaring, content in it's meaninglessness. And You, the Beast, are that world.

                            But humans are caring, and always drawing things of meaning, beauty, horror, and more out of that void, of that vast expanse where Things Happen. And You, the Beast, are Human.

                            Humans are the world, and the world is humanity. It's easy for both sides to forget, if they even bother to dare comprehend. You stand at the threshold, a nightmare in flesh, and direct the ocean. You take the wisdom and serenity that is found under the fear and desperate desire and use it on the Primordial Dream itself, letting humanity shape itself by way of higher insight.

                            Sometimes, you will use fear to lay low the corrupt, making the CEO beg at your knees, the politician give up his manipulated gains, the extremist surrender his fight, the corrupt judge confess his sins, the raping frat boy apologize for breaking into houses. You'll make them see that the walls of civilization are thin, only barely there, and that without the facade, they are naked to their own cruelties, and to the world beyond.

                            Sometimes, you'll use strip people of their barriers to raise them up and expose their higher selves. A couple need not doubt any more as one lays aside their ego for the other, confronts the Beast, and begs and pleads to do anything they want with them, so long as the other is let go. A young adult, having all his fantasies stripped from him, goes out into the world, and connects to people, and finds he can bring them great joy. The soldier seeks a better way, not as a fighter, but as a representative of his state, knowing that all the strength in the world cannot protect you, and to possess it is to invite disaster. An internet blogger now seeks to inspire and change his social network, having the cruelties of the un-named justices he assumed shown to him personally. A family gathers-they haven't talked in years, but without a roof over their head, they protect themselves in the storm by mending bridges and finding joy in one another again, content to huddle together in the hope of a rescue helicopter, and the knowledge that if they should pass, they'll pass together, hand in hand.

                            There are some who would call this cruelty. Some who would call it presumption and ego. And it can be.

                            But pain, while a part of life, is not the whole of it. These things pass. Without the guidance of the Beast, they may be crueler still, because the world does not think about how any given person arrived where they are and where they will go as a result-it just happens, it just strikes. But a Beast can, should, direct the ocean, and tailor the storms that must happen to the benefit of those it strikes. A brief bit of pain can be a worthy price for better lives and better worlds.

                            This is Beast the Primordial. It's fear and want and wisdom and serenity. It's the happiness of acceptance and the glory of defiance and the hope that the two can be attained together. It's how humans are the world, a cold, cruel, uncaring place. It's how the world is humans-ever building, ever dreaming, always learning. It's about equilibrium, and all the reasons we stray from it. It's about chaos, and how we carve a world free of it. It's about how, in the end, we are who we are- in all our cyclical imperfections and glorious progress.

                            It's about being the monster who cares.
                            Last edited by ArcaneArts; 06-11-2016, 03:46 PM.


                            Sean K.I.W./Kelly R.A. Steele, Freelance Writer(Feel free to call me Sean, Kelly, Arcane, or Arc)
                            The world is not beautiful, therefore it is.-Keiichi Sigsawa, Kino's Journey
                            Feminine pronouns, please.

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                            • Kinship: is this just a list of which supernatural types the Beast has encountered, or is it a trait that the Beast must earn in some way and which only provides benefits for those types for which it has been earned? That is, is it possible to have a Beast who can't use Family Dinner with vampires because she hasn't established Kinship with vampires (yet)?

                              Frankly, the whole “horror from the collective unconscious that terrorizes people in order to survive” doesn't interest me; so if I'm going to be sold on Beast, it's going to have to be in spite of that — something else about the game that makes it worth my while to put up with the distasteful part. I think the “family” element might be a suitable candidate for that; please tell me more, because I'm getting some cognitive dissonance between that and the “solitary hunter” archetype that most of the monsters featured in Beast tend to have in their source material.


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                              • You have Kinship with a being once you've established it with the Family Ties Condition.


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