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Non-Abusive/Empathetic True Fae...even possible? (and Wyrd 10 Changelings)

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  • #46
    Originally posted by Omegaphallic View Post
    Nothing in 2e core says anything about becoming a True Fae at Wyrd 10, it was an opinional rule in a previous edition.

    If you want your Changeling changeling be achieve wyrd 10, without turning into a True Fae, that appears to be the default assumption, that why immortal life span is listed, it would be no point in that if you just turned into a True Fae.
    To be honest, I actually prefer the True Fae not being ex-changelings, it takes away the mystery of what True Fae actually are.

    So I guess I rather have it that Changelings can't become True Fae because they're not True Fae no matter how high their Wyrd is, since I kinda prefer the True Fae being never human in the first place which they're truly alien anomalious beings and sort of just "popped into existence" through unknown means although the True Fae can be tied into the Wyrd somehow however.
    Last edited by Veindark; 12-05-2016, 02:22 AM.

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    • #47
      Originally posted by Veindark View Post
      To be honest, I actually prefer the True Fae not being ex-changelings, it takes away the mystery of what True Fae actually are.
      You appear to be laboring under the impression that "changelings can become True Fae" means "all True Fae were once changelings." This is not the case and never has been.


      Resident Lore-Hound
      Currently Consuming: Hunter: the Vigil 1e

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      • #48
        Originally posted by Satchel View Post
        You appear to be laboring under the impression that "changelings can become True Fae" means "all True Fae were once changelings." This is not the case and never has been.
        I thought that certain conclusion has been implied if you follow that logic and putting two and two together along with fringe horrors of the True Fae "reproduction cycle".

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        • #49
          Originally posted by Satchel View Post
          You appear to be laboring under the impression that "changelings can become True Fae" means "all True Fae were once changelings." This is not the case and never has been.
          Plus, it logically cannot be true of all true fae. Since changelings are created by the actions of true fae.... so if all true fae were originally changelings there never would have been a changeling because there was never a changeling in the first place because there wasn't a true fae, etc. etc.


          Genius templates: Super Science Mini-Template for Demon: the Descent

          Oracle the Endbringers: Time-Manipulator Fan-Splat

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          • #50
            Originally posted by milo v3 View Post
            Plus, it logically cannot be true of all true fae. Since changelings are created by the actions of true fae.... so if all true fae were originally changelings there never would have been a changeling because there was never a changeling in the first place because there wasn't a true fae, etc. etc.
            Which is why I think Changelings and True Fae should be separate beings entirely.

            I think we could also go to the "DA: Fae" route saying that the Arcadia were originally one with Earth and the True Fae used to Walk and dominate the Earth in ages past (during the Antiquity and Middle Ages) as the "Firstborn" until it was separated in modern ages with the creation of the Hedge.

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            • #51
              Originally posted by Veindark View Post
              I thought that certain conclusion has been implied if you follow that logic and putting two and two together along with fringe horrors of the True Fae "reproduction cycle".
              Putting two and two together is "any Fae might have, in theory, once been a changeling, because any changeling could theoretically go on to become a Fae." That's not "they're all made out of changelings," that's "This could be your Monarch twenty years from now."

              Your "certain conclusion" operates on the logic that pyromaniacs are the sole source of house fires.

              Becoming a True Fae means you stop being a person in favor of being a personality.


              Resident Lore-Hound
              Currently Consuming: Hunter: the Vigil 1e

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              • #52
                Originally posted by Veindark View Post

                I thought that certain conclusion has been implied if you follow that logic and putting two and two together along with fringe horrors of the True Fae "reproduction cycle".
                In this case, the implication is wrong. Honestly, too many changelings die in mundane ways or get taken back prior to that point for it to count as a "reproduction cycle". There's honestly always been too many True Fae for that to be the angle. And again, even those who reach Wyrd 10 basically have to let go of the rope to really be fucked.

                Becoming Nightmare is more the natural consequence of a person who's so afraid of living in an uncertain world where safety can't be guarenteed and happiness is a pursuit rather than a promise, when wish fulfillment is not a struggle but something to handed to them-when a chick decides it's better to hatch into an egg rather than the other way around.


                Sean K.I.W./Kelly R.A. Steele, Freelance Writer(Feel free to call me Sean, Kelly, Arcane, or Arc)
                The world is not beautiful, therefore it is.-Keiichi Sigsawa, Kino's Journey
                Feminine pronouns, please.

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                • #53
                  Originally posted by Veindark View Post

                  Which is why I think Changelings and True Fae should be separate beings entirely.
                  They are. It just happens that through rare circumstances it might be possible for changelings to cast off their humanity and become a true being of narrative, an opportunity only have because of how their torn up souls are filled with glamour and fables.

                  I think we could also go to the "DA: Fae" route saying that the Arcadia were originally one with Earth and the True Fae used to Walk and dominate the Earth in ages past (during the Antiquity and Middle Ages) as the "Firstborn" until it was separated in modern ages with the creation of the Hedge.
                  There is no reason why that cannot be true in your CofD games, the history of supernaturals is generally rather obscured so you can decide to do things like that.


                  Genius templates: Super Science Mini-Template for Demon: the Descent

                  Oracle the Endbringers: Time-Manipulator Fan-Splat

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                  • #54
                    "Wait, were you human once?"

                    "I have memories of being human. They might not be mine."

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                    • #55
                      Originally posted by ArcaneArts View Post
                      Becoming Nightmare is more the natural consequence of a person who's so afraid of living in an uncertain world where safety can't be guarenteed and happiness is a pursuit rather than a promise, when wish fulfillment is not a struggle but something to handed to them-when a chick decides it's better to hatch into an egg rather than the other way around.
                      Okay, I love you for that quote, but I also have to hate you since once again you have forced into my brain "If it cannot break out of its shell, a chick will die without ever truly being born, etc.". Not that I don't love Utena, mind you, but....dammit, its worse than a song stuck in your head, you know!

                      Not even gonna get into the parallels of being true fae versus Akio abilities, manipulations, and goals. We'd be here all day.

                      Ahem. Changeling-turned-Gentry and resultant empathy question!

                      "You want to maintain your old personality? How? Why? When you start to dream, do you in the dream worry about things happening in the waking world? When you wake up from a dream, are you able to maintain concerns for and the personality from your dreaming mind? Would you even care or think to try? Because that's the divide between who you were as a changeling and who you are as a True Fae! But fine. Say you ARE empathetic, that you retain some semblance of human morality! Congrats! You are now a True Fae with a sense of right and wrong! By the way, all your neighbors are sociopaths who want to eat you! But they have rules, too. They only get to eat you if they beat you in a game of chess! Oops, turns out those pieces are alive. Better keeps those pawns out of harm's way, since you care about these sorts of things. Be immoral to hurt the opposing pieces, too. Good luck winning with that retained sense of compassion you got there, bud. Or you can steal some folk from the living world. Make them act out a story for you. Why would you do that? What a silly question. Why do humans breath the air? Drink the water? Eat the food? To survive, of course. Stories are your lifeblood, friend. Whether you tell them yourself or allow them to unfold around you, so long as they are being told the Wyrd will weave its Fate and your existence is secure. What happens if you let the stories stop? What a stupid question. Then you die. Yes, yes, yes. Happily ever after. Of course its true. For them. The mortals. For you, the tale itself....ever after is just a pretty way of saying THE END. Finale. No more to come. Death. Worse than death, really. Human death promises the hope of some kind of afterlife. Maybe. You have no such hope. The end for you is the end. But it doesn't have to be that way. You just need to collect a few...props. Its okay. You were like them once. And look where you are now. They can take it. Heh. Look at it this way. The Wyrd wants you to write the next great Arcadian novel, and it has a strict deadline for publication, and all you can think about is how sad it is that some ink and paper have to be used up to get the job done. You are a True Fae now. You have greater concerns."

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                      • #56
                        Originally posted by nothri View Post

                        Okay, I love you for that quote, but I also have to hate you since once again you have forced into my brain "If it cannot break out of its shell, a chick will die without ever truly being born, etc.". Not that I don't love Utena, mind you, but....dammit, its worse than a song stuck in your head, you know!
                        zettai
                        unmei
                        mokushiroku



                        Sean K.I.W./Kelly R.A. Steele, Freelance Writer(Feel free to call me Sean, Kelly, Arcane, or Arc)
                        The world is not beautiful, therefore it is.-Keiichi Sigsawa, Kino's Journey
                        Feminine pronouns, please.

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                        • #57
                          Originally posted by nothri View Post
                          Or you can steal some folk from the living world. Make them act out a story for you. Why would you do that? What a silly question. Why do humans breath the air? Drink the water? Eat the food? To survive, of course. Stories are your lifeblood, friend. Whether you tell them yourself or allow them to unfold around you, so long as they are being told the Wyrd will weave its Fate and your existence is secure. What happens if you let the stories stop? What a stupid question. Then you die. Yes, yes, yes. Happily ever after. Of course its true. For them. The mortals. For you, the tale itself....ever after is just a pretty way of saying THE END. Finale. No more to come. Death. Worse than death, really. Human death promises the hope of some kind of afterlife. Maybe. You have no such hope. The end for you is the end.
                          Well.

                          Let's be totally clear, here: You're dead already.

                          The sun has set on your mortal days, and — Et in Arcadia ego — the Wyrd stands before you in the full aspect of the Harvest itself. The only thing standing between you and blind oblivion — all that permits you even a shred of a chance at a new game — is that Fate likes a good scary story on the endless nights when the paths between the worlds are short and straight. Even in the timeless realm of Faerie a prisoner is entitled to the prospect of freedom — the Strangers didn't make the rule of there always being a catch, but they gladly take advantage where they can.

                          You're a ghost trying to fend off the Reaper for long enough that your unfinished business is concluded, your deepest wish granted, your discontented soul freed from the Hell of jewels and thorns that bars you from the ultimate fulfillment of the desires you so desperately pursue. You're racing against time, seeking to hasten the Dawn's arrival before you fall asleep for the final time in the temptingly soft space between suffering.

                          You use any means possible to beat back the cessation of your adventures — while the end is coming no matter what you do, the nature of your Durance demands the possibility of an ending you can be happy with. You know it must exist, because hope and faith, like trust and fellow-feeling, are among the only luxuries not afforded to you — leaving anything to chance is to place it in the hands of your sole jailer and executioner, and you cannot know why It does this or what terrors It has in store for you in the great Nothing after life.

                          And so you sit in the middle of the night on All Hallow's Eve, a lonely soul playing the part of Scheherazade, Dead-Clever Bride of the Wyrd. Arrangements will be made if you need anything to tell your stories, but compelling subjects do not grow on trees, even here in the wonderland on the edge of dreams, so you are sadly bound to inconvenience someone eventually, whether you venture through the woods to get the goods yourself or enlist a wandering river or a rolling stone for aid.

                          In any case, before you die, the way out is through. (Farewell, good hunter. May you find your worth in the waking world.)


                          Resident Lore-Hound
                          Currently Consuming: Hunter: the Vigil 1e

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                          • #58
                            Originally posted by Veindark View Post

                            Well say if I pick the True Fae decision, I wonder how they can maintain being themselves (or the the essence of you)
                            Zero Clarity. Think of what that phrase means not in context of mechanics of a game we play but just plain English. Now picture a being with zero clarity with unlimited power to reshape anything in its own little pocket universe realm. Experiencing empathy has accurate perception of others as a prerequisite after all and I challenge you to provide an example where it is otherwise, because all my attempts fail. See Empathy vs Sympathy. Zero Clarity is amazing word craft in the game mechanics to capture the idea that it represents.

                            How can you have an accurate sense of self when you have no accurate senses at all? You can't. By being completely without any Clarity is the dissolution of the self as a meaningful construct and there is no 'you' at that time.
                            Last edited by Pale_Crusader; 12-09-2016, 05:01 PM.


                            “Youth ages, immaturity is outgrown, ignorance can be educated, and drunkenness sobered, but stupid lasts forever.” ~ Aristophanes
                            "Virescit Vulnere Virtus" ~ Stewart Clan Motto

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                            • #59
                              It seems not even the Gentry are immune to the overarching rule of Changeling; for a great boon comes a proportional suffering and sacrifice. If anything, they have mastered and enforcered it.

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                              • #60
                                Originally posted by Satchel View Post
                                Stuff
                                Hot damn, Satch, ya' givin' me chills!


                                Going by Willow now, or Wil for short. She/Her/Hers.

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