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  • Would you allow...

    A variation on the Ifrit Kith in the 2.0 test material, that for a glamour summons a bow and arrows for a round (or maybe a scene). Character wants a ranged attack and Ifrit is the only kith I could find that came near... My player eventually want to take the Combat Archery style feats from Hurt Locker... so ideally the kith and feats should work together.

    Too much?

  • #2
    The Ifrit kith seems to focus on fire so would this bow and its arrows look like they were made of fire, maybe having a mask to look like normal items but would be they like a hedge-spun item made of fire? Then because of how the blessing gives you access to a modified pyrokinesis merit I may suggest it to cost a glamour per shot since each use of the pyrokinesis blessing would require the same. When you weigh this against the fact that you can walk into a secure area and 'manifest' a weapon after being searched I don't think its too bad. Plus, each arrow can be described as a manifestation of glamour.

    Now onto the worry of merits (CofD's feats) that could applies I have two different suggestions. If it is a genuine worry for you you could instead of having it be a true bow and arrow it is simply a re-flavouring of how the pyropkinieses blessing manifests. If on the other side you want it to truly be a bow and arrow the merits that applies to such a weapon should apply in my opinion. At worst they have a concealed weapon they can hide from mundane searches. However to keep it in line with the standard Ifrit I may suggest re-skinning it but if this is what you player wants to build their character around maybe the merits could/should apply. For lack of a better example, it could be like a quincy from bleach using their 'spirit bow' and if the is their primary weapon which they focus on maybe they should reap the benefits. It would still be at 1 glamour per shot so in that sense it'd be a limiter.

    In my opinion as long as the other players don't mind it shouldn't be a problem and like I said, at worst reskin it to look like a bow and arrow to keep the flavour.

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    • #3
      I've actually been thinking on making a kith whose Kith bonus is that the Changeling is considered to always have a concealed weapon on them that is part of their body, which they could reveal by paying a Glamour. Still working on it, though.

      For the most part, I agree with Mr.F.I.X. If the player's Changeling is simply making a bow of fire, or whatever element their Ifrit utilizes, then it's simply an aestetic and wouldn't trigger the merits. On the other hand, if your player wants to have their Changeling's kith feature a proper bow with arrows, then I'd suggest making a new kith.

      That said, if your player simply wants a ranged attack, then Ifrit or Weisseu Frau would both work, as they utilize supernatural merits that are innately ranged (Pyrokinesis and Telekinesis respectively) but with a few more benefits compared to the proper merit. If they wanted to, say, throw Lightning around instead, you could reskin Ifrit so it works with that instead of fire. There are contracts that could work too, particularly with Cloak of the Elements, given that there is a merit that works with it to a good effect; mind, that merit's currently in the Gold version of Chapter 3 (I can't remember the exact thread it's in), not in the Final version of Chapter 1 or the previously revealed sections we got.

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      • #4
        If its just summoning a bow and arrow... why not use a Contract instead of a Kith? Inanimate Communion (Darkling), a one dot Contract, lets you summon up a shadow representation of any object (better than Discrete Conjuration IMHO). Elemental Battle Style lets you throw elements - its not a stretch to say that it functions like a bow and can be used with the different archery FS in Hurt Locker. It even has the same Firearms or Athletics question going on with it!

        To be honest, if you really wanted to allow Pyrokinesis to function as a bow, its absolutely not too much. Personally, I would actually say that its actually far too little for 2e combat. Compared to someone with a three-dot Hedgespun bow or, say, Razorhand? Being stuck with a 1L attack that can't be upgraded is a bit underwhelming when some regular armor can effectively negate any attack. Even a mundane short bow could be improved via Contracts to be far more versatile than a psychokinesis bow could be (Inanimate Communion, Blessing of Perfection, Animate Device). And that's before we get into things like opponents using abilities to turn ephemeral, a Defense score of 10+ against ranged attacks, armor of 3+, environmental tilts, luck-based curses and more, all of which are trivially easy to achieve.

        As someone that's played an Ifrit recently, I can tell you that Psychokinesis is not the best ability to use in combat, no matter if you allow it as a bow or not. Cloak of the Elements + Elemental Battle is far more flexible and powerful in terms of a ranged attack, and that's before we start looking at Control Elements, or how Cloak of the Elements can be glamour free for all attacks instead of 1 glamour per attack (both require the presence of your element). The main use of Psychokinesis for an Ifirit is, in my experience, the ability to shape fire at whim, making it larger, smaller, into forms or messages, etc.

        If you want to remodel a kith for a ranged character, I suggest starting with Razorhand instead and reflavor it into shooting quills or something similar. Yes, its melee instead of ranged, but there's no damage correction between melee/ranged weapons for the CofD in the first place. Not when guns exist. Any damage "corrections" come in the form of combat merits and magical abilities, and that's more a matter of flavor rather than game balance.

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        • #5
          Originally posted by yrtalien View Post
          A variation on the Ifrit Kith in the 2.0 test material, that for a glamour summons a bow and arrows for a round (or maybe a scene). Character wants a ranged attack and Ifrit is the only kith I could find that came near... My player eventually want to take the Combat Archery style feats from Hurt Locker... so ideally the kith and feats should work together.

          Too much?
          I'd say make the bow a Token with the ability to summon it for the scene with Glamour. You could give it whatever visuals you desired. If it is specifically a ranged attack kith that is sought, I created the deadeye kith, which can be found on the page of original kiths on the Changeling Kiths (2e) thread.


          Currently working on: [REDACTED]

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          • #6
            Originally posted by Taidragon View Post
            I've actually been thinking on making a kith whose Kith bonus is that the Changeling is considered to always have a concealed weapon on them that is part of their body, which they could reveal by paying a Glamour. Still working on it, though.

            For the most part, I agree with Mr.F.I.X. If the player's Changeling is simply making a bow of fire, or whatever element their Ifrit utilizes, then it's simply an aestetic and wouldn't trigger the merits. On the other hand, if your player wants to have their Changeling's kith feature a proper bow with arrows, then I'd suggest making a new kith.

            That said, if your player simply wants a ranged attack, then Ifrit or Weisseu Frau would both work, as they utilize supernatural merits that are innately ranged (Pyrokinesis and Telekinesis respectively) but with a few more benefits compared to the proper merit. If they wanted to, say, throw Lightning around instead, you could reskin Ifrit so it works with that instead of fire. There are contracts that could work too, particularly with Cloak of the Elements, given that there is a merit that works with it to a good effect; mind, that merit's currently in the Gold version of Chapter 3 (I can't remember the exact thread it's in), not in the Final version of Chapter 1 or the previously revealed sections we got.
            I've been trying to find this merit that works with Cloak of Elements ... Gold version of chapter 3? I'm not sure what that means, is it that you have an early version of the new book? Or am I just to dense to find whetever merit this is... LOL

            [Edit: Well hours later and I found it! Wow was that worth it ty ty ty That is one cool Merit! It definitely fits the need,.]
            Last edited by yrtalien; 12-14-2016, 09:39 PM.

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