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Contracts of Emotion and Talespinning? (2e)

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  • Contracts of Emotion and Talespinning? (2e)

    Have these come out with any of the playtesting materials? They get mentioned in the Court Creation sections, but don't show up in the final draft of chapter 3, the mechanics section. They seem pretty important to playing in a Court, though I imagine kludging something together from 1e wouldn't be too trying.

    Also, HUGE thanks to the devs for releasing material early. It's going to save me a lot of trouble in my weird 2e multi-splat game, personally!

  • #2
    The last stuff I've seen is under NDA, but for the sake of getting a workable framework you can take the various Fleeting Season Contracts from 1e, generalize their emotional tenor, and try to convert them to 2e's mechanics.

    Talespinning is a little more grounded in 2e's metaphysics, but the effects are relatively straightforward — they let a changeling interface with the story of her Court as it relates to her and through her. Turn up the volume on some of the general facets of what Mantle provides and filter it through Contract mechanics and the story of the Courts and Bulwark and you should have a decent thematic stopgap.


    Resident Sanguinary Analyst
    Currently Consuming: Changeling: the Lost 1e

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    • #3
      That's what I thought.

      So just guessing but a changing with emotion [greed] for example might be able to sense greed and it's cause, redirect a persons greed to something else, create new greed, intensify greed to the level of obsession, and nullify/remove greed, and which of these you have access to depends on how many dots you have of that particular emotional contract. Perhaps a manipulation + empathy + mantle roll to activate.

      The Talespinning one I figured what similar to Tale Crafting I figured, but tied to your court story, otherwise it would be pointless to make it a court contract.

      I'm guessing it allows the Changeling to control the narrative of reality, but only in relation to her "character" in the courts story, which has a place in the broader story of the freehold.

      I'm guessing the contract mechanically allows you to buff the benefits of your mantle by extending the power of your mantle outwards via you mien to alter reality on a more then cosmetic level.

      I'll have to think on this more, interesting puzzle.

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      • #4
        The Fleeting Contracts of 1e were actually designed up the whole "fighter, socialite, sneak, mystic" angle of each Court. Fleeting Summer was designed to find the people most likely to go engage in a fight, encourage or douse fights. Fleeting Winter, meanwhile, specialized in causing distractions, great for sneaking. Fleeting Autumn was, well, it basically was an offensive magic attack, while Spring helped with making pacts (even to the point of being a catch!) and gathering allies. The Eternal Contracts of 1e were much the same. They were all physical manifestations of the seasons, but still roughly followed the same fighter/rogue/wizard/cleric divide. Eternal Autumn, in addition to mystic attacks, could be awesome at harvesting goblin fruits. Summer was still combat oriented, Spring switched to a support-healer vibe over pure socialite, and Winter had, well, disabling abilities. Not as clear as Fleeting, but still aimed in that general direction.

        The LoS contracts were pretty much everywhere, depending, often a grab-bag of abilities under a losely related theme. I'm not sold on them being able

        Very likely, we're not going to be seeing the class divide for 2e. Well, not for non-Seasonal Courts anyways. But I image we're still going to be roughly able to do all the same things with Emotions that we could with the Fleeting. So, we're probably going to have a four dot contract with five different effects you can buy, kind of like Fang & Talon or Vainglory does.
        * Read Emotion - what is this person's afraid of/angry at/desirous towards/sad about/etc
        * Inspire Emotion - target gets emotion forced on them, granting a bonus or penalty equal to Mantle to certain actions (socializing, fighting, being distracted, etc).
        * Remove Emotion - what it says on the tin. Especially relevant with all the fear-inducement powers running around.
        * Crowd based - use any other ability on a crowd at once
        * Embodiment of Emotion - Target is driven to an extreme and can only feel that emotion (equivalent to Fleeting 5 in most cases). Deny successes or add successes equal to Mantle, depending on if target is following the emotion or not. Downside - like breaking the Mask, target alerts Huntsmen. If target has Dull Beacon, that applies, but against user's Mantle instead of target's Wyrd.

        On an exceptional success, we'll have duration extended from scene to day, or something. Seeming blessings (I'm guessing three here, three on Talespinning) will improve abilities, depending on whom the target is (self, other openly confronted, other sneakily targetted). For the sake of simplicity, I'm going to say at least one will be Exceptional Success on 3 dice, and another is going to add +3 dice. Dice Roll will be Manipulation + Empathy + Mantle.


        The second Contract we haven't seen yet, Talespinning? Normally, I would think that we'd be aiming towards mimicry of Eternal Contracts, but I'm not for two reasons. One, there's a third Contract every Court is getting. I suspect that is going to be more appropriate for the custom "Emodiment of Court Symbol" that Eternal did, each one a custom fit. Spring would get a Contract that granted health or Size, Summer would invoke light, etc.

        Secondly? Talespinning is the same name for an ability in Sword at Dawn (I think it was?). You literally shaped the world by invoking story tropes to take form. I suspect that that the Contract of Talespinning is going to formalize those abilities through Conditions as a central power of CtL, along with interacting with the Court Bulwark, a Court role, and more. Courts and Entitlements are how characters are creating their own stories as opposed to the one the Gentries wanted to tell. Its Bulwark Meta-magic!! You force "villains" to adhere to the Bulwark routes, and the "hero" (ie the changeling) gets to slay their dragons! And the best part is that you can use it on non-fae, loyalists or hobs as well as Huntsmen and Gentry!

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        • #5
          Forcing none huntsmen and gentry to abide by ones approaches is an interesting idea MCN. Perhaps it's even broader then that, a way of forcing others and reality to abide by your character within your court's story.

          I've been think about Sachel's riddle. Court contracts seem to work by being •-•••••, with the effect either getting stronger with higher dots, or adding additional effects. Activation, if one is needed is attribute + skill + mantle.

          I been thinking about the general attributes of mantle and they fall into a few broad categories.

          1. Grant Merits and similar effects
          2. Empower Contract magic (I don't think this will be it.
          3. Change your Mein and even at ••••• of mantle project it outwards.
          4. Social Bonus within Court (I don't think this will be it either.
          5. Approaches

          So I think it will be the ability to grant yourself merit dots based on your courts story and your story. As long as its "in character" within your courts story and your role within it for you character to have it, you can activate the contract to gain the merits. So a beggars bowl would usually not get resources dots, unless you gave a good plot twist for it, but they might be able to have contacts ••••• beggers. So it's similar to goblin vows, but no task in needed except that it is in character with your part in the court story.

          And if I'm right then you can create merits using this contract, but the dot rating is capped at the dot rating of the contract, so if one has talespinning at •••• then you can't create ••••• allies merit, because it's a dot higher then your dots in talespinning.

          I suspect that the catch is it's free if its in service of maintaining the freehold bulwark.

          For the emotional contracts catch I suspect that it will be if the emotion is or will be directed at you personally. So with contract of emotion wrath, you could remove someone rage at you, create rage within them towards you, intensify rage towards you, or deflect that rage from someone else, towards yourself for free.

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          • #6
            Alternate Talespinning could allow you to gives dot rating in penalty die to anyone who violates your approaches, and a dice bonus to anyone who furthers your characters story within the court story, just to try and expand upon MCN's idea.

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            • #7
              Well, I'm sure there's a bit more to the Contract than just forcing others to abide by your Approach. I think that we're going to have the power to edit your Approaches in the first place as well as designate roles to people. I suspect that Bulwarks and Approaches are going to form the basis behind how Talespinning operates, and yes, probably some bonuses and penalties to following / ignoring them; much like Embrace the Wyrd is about storycrafting your own tale as well. Where Embracing the Wyrd is about you writing your own story around you (in the form of getting Wyrd in bonuses), I think that Talecrafting is going to be about shaping the world around you through your Mantle and, perhaps, some Conditions.

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              • #8
                Perhaps it's a mix of the two, the ability to gain merits that are in character and the ability to enforce you approach on others, by giving penalties to those who flout them.

                Either way I'm betting I'm right about the catch being in service to maintaining the bulkwork.

                Question then becomes which Seeming gets affinity bonuses. Perhaps three have affinities for emotions and 3 have affinity for talespinning.
                Last edited by Omegaphallic; 02-17-2017, 08:59 PM.

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                • #9
                  Well, you're probably forcing others to use the approach through the use of penalties/bonuses, or through Conditions. Changeling isn't big on direct mind control, after all. They mess with your emotions and fate, primarily.

                  As for Seeming affinities? Its just as possible that there are some prejudice towards Fairest and Ogres, which would encourage them to invest in Court more than other Seemings, than an artificial attempt at balance. And, to be fair, that's not a bad conclusion to make either. Fairest are supposed to be leaders, no? So having benefits for being heavily invested in Court makes sense for them in addition to other stuff, while Beasts, who tend to hate social conventions and ties, get less investment returns?
                  Last edited by MCN; 02-18-2017, 08:25 AM.

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by MCN View Post
                    Well, you're probably forcing others to use the approach through the use of penalties/bonuses, or through Conditions. Changeling isn't big on direct mind control, after all. They mess with your emotions and fate, primarily.

                    As for Seeming affinities? Its just as possible that there are some prejudice towards Fairest and Ogres, which would encourage them to invest in Court more than other Seemings, than an artificial attempt at balance. And, to be fair, that's not a bad conclusion to make either. Fairest are supposed to be leaders, no? So having benefits for being heavily invested in Court makes sense for them in addition to other stuff, while Beasts, who tend to hate social conventions and ties, get less investment returns?
                    I could see Beasts having an affinity for the contracts of emotions, Beasts are passionate, less constrained by social convention.

                    I see Fairest, Beasts, and Ogres having an affinity for the emotional contracts, they are more tied to emotions then Darklings, Wizened, and Elementals, so I can see those three having an affinity for Talespinning. Maybe Darkling talespinning affinity involves a dark curse, Wizened end up boosting their skills when using it, and elementals can make the weather bend to the narrative.

                    Maybe Fairest can cause the inspired or swooning condition when using the contract, Orges get a bonus to defence from their targets who are emotionally overwhelmed, and Beasts can track people who are feeling that emotion. Just guesses.
                    Last edited by Omegaphallic; 02-18-2017, 12:18 PM.

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                    • #11
                      *shrugs* It can go any way. I'm just saying that we shouldn't rely on expecting a solid split of Seemings between the Court Contracts. Depends a lot on what the authors were aiming for. We could very well have an entire Seeming that doesn't get any bonuses from any Court Contract for all we know.

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                      • #12
                        Possibly, but I hope not, in this specific case I hope it's balanced between these two contracts.

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Omegaphallic View Post
                          I've been think about Sachel's riddle. Court contracts seem to work by being •-•••••
                          Well. One of them does.

                          1. Grant Merits and similar effects
                          2. Empower Contract magic (I don't think this will be it.
                          3. Change your Mein and even at ••••• of mantle project it outwards.
                          4. Social Bonus within Court (I don't think this will be it either.
                          5. Approaches
                          There's more overlap between these aspects than you'd think.

                          It may help to remember that, while the infinite variety of potential Courts lends a lot of theoretical breadth to the Contract of Talespinning, most of its cheaper effects are going to revolve around your Court specifically. Empowered as they are by the establishment of a Bulwark, the Court Contracts include a fair few powers that just make having the apparatus of the freehold run smoothly — or begin to derail in times of transition and unrest — easier to manage.

                          In any case, it's definitely not as broad as Talecrafting was, based as it is in more local concerns.


                          Resident Sanguinary Analyst
                          Currently Consuming: Changeling: the Lost 1e

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Satchel View Post
                            Well. One of them does.

                            There's more overlap between these aspects than you'd think.

                            It may help to remember that, while the infinite variety of potential Courts lends a lot of theoretical breadth to the Contract of Talespinning, most of its cheaper effects are going to revolve around your Court specifically. Empowered as they are by the establishment of a Bulwark, the Court Contracts include a fair few powers that just make having the apparatus of the freehold run smoothly — or begin to derail in times of transition and unrest — easier to manage.

                            In any case, it's definitely not as broad as Talecrafting was, based as it is in more local concerns.
                            Ohhhh, a riddle within a riddle! 😁

                            This is fun, I'll think on what you said, but don't tell me if I'm right because I don't want you to get in trouble.

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                            • #15
                              I'm guessing contracts of emotion are a solid 2 to 3 dots, not broken up •-••••• style like, in hindsight •-••••• dots was way too high a cost for a contract that only manipulates a single emotion, especially when Changelings get Bedlam at Wyrd 6+ and have a merit for extra uses of it.

                              Now •-••••• is more likely for Talespinning, given it has lower and higher effects.

                              My first guess is the lower level effect is a bonus to any bonuses your mantle grants you at levels 1, 3, and 5, then at higher levels you can penalize those who ignore your approach, and at higher levels a bonus to maintaing your bulwork and defending it from threats.

                              Alternately at low levels you can gain and grant bonuses and merits based on things that relate to your court story, then a an increasingly higher levels, it expands to include the bulwork.

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