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Ask a Simple Question, Get a Simple Answer: Changeling Edition

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  • Originally posted by Satchel View Post
    Needle/Thread is part of the Lost Template, as are Touchstones.
    I know, but it's the part about them having Integrity instead of Clarity that makes me question the possibility.

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    • "Note that the Avowed share many traits with changelings, but they are not changelings. Some
      traits are completely unique to changelings. If an advantage or trait is not listed below, do not
      assume fae-touched characters gain it."

      Right before that it says that you should follow regular character creation except adding the Lost template (i.e. step 5) which is were both Needle/Thread and Touchstones are added to changelings. The only reason Clarity is mentioned is because it's added in a later step 7 rather than step 5.


      Edit: However, they seem to have omitted that they should have Virtue/Vice.
      Last edited by Tessie; 12-10-2017, 11:34 PM.


      Bloodline: The Stygians
      Ordo Dracul Mystery: Coil of Smoke

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      • So, this may seem like a dumb question, but is ensorcelment (allowing a mortal to see past the mask of not just yourself but all Changelings) still a thing for Changelings in second edition? I've not found any reference to it, and people have suggested that it can be made as a benefit of the bargain, but I'm not entirely sure.

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        • Originally posted by Taidragon View Post
          So, this may seem like a dumb question, but is ensorcelment (allowing a mortal to see past the mask of not just yourself but all Changelings) still a thing for Changelings in second edition? I've not found any reference to it, and people have suggested that it can be made as a benefit of the bargain, but I'm not entirely sure.
          It is not a thing in 2e.


          Genius templates (for Demon: the Descent)

          Rakshasa: the Kingdom (Featuring the Extinction Chronicle) [WIP]

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          • With traveling the Hedge acting like a chase, how exactly are certain abilities that involve learning the direction or location of certain places supposed to work? Hedgespinnig for example, gives suggestions regarding learning the direction to go to find a location, but it doesn't say how that's meant to manifest because according to the rules, you just declare a goal and roll to find your way..One of the examples given by the book of this is declaring you want to find an icon, something which I get the sense should be an extremely big thing in and out of game, potentially even the center of its own story-not something that should be accomplished in just one chase. Does the book specify that you need to already know certain things before you can declare them goals and I just missed it? Or if not, can anyone suggest ideas on how to integrate those ideas. Currently I'm thinking just a die bonus, or in the case of certain hedgespinning rolls, even automatic successes. I just wanted to pull from further knowledge before I make that definitive, because it still feels like for certain things, the system doesn't have the necessary gravitas.

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            • Originally posted by Lady Gray View Post
              With traveling the Hedge acting like a chase, how exactly are certain abilities that involve learning the direction or location of certain places supposed to work? Hedgespinnig for example, gives suggestions regarding learning the direction to go to find a location, but it doesn't say how that's meant to manifest because according to the rules, you just declare a goal and roll to find your way..One of the examples given by the book of this is declaring you want to find an icon, something which I get the sense should be an extremely big thing in and out of game, potentially even the center of its own story-not something that should be accomplished in just one chase. Does the book specify that you need to already know certain things before you can declare them goals and I just missed it? Or if not, can anyone suggest ideas on how to integrate those ideas. Currently I'm thinking just a die bonus, or in the case of certain hedgespinning rolls, even automatic successes. I just wanted to pull from further knowledge before I make that definitive, because it still feels like for certain things, the system doesn't have the necessary gravitas.
              Well, don't forget that you can hedgespin with a Wits + Investigation roll (and, if you're a hunterheart, get an exceptional on three successes). That's the kind of thing that would give you the direction or location. You're using tracking skills (Investigation, Streetwise, Survival) to follow signs and portents within the Hedge to your destination.

              How this manifests? The same exact way you'd expect spoor in any tracking roll to manifests. Game trails, scent paths, torn clothing, hints of civilization in a forest, crumbs from bread, and more.

              There's not a lot of detail given, simply because the number of things you can do at this point is frankly outragously huge. Combat is hedgeshaping. Tracking is shaping. Jogging is shaping. Dancing is shaping. Actual shaping with gardening or blacksmith tools is hedgespinning.

              As an ST, you have the job to make sure that the right bonus is resulting from the right action. I wouldn't give the direction or location benefit from a non-perception roll, for instance, or the weapon benefit from dancing the polka.


              Now, in the case of finding an Icon? I imagine that would be a situation of trying to rely on your memory and retrace your steps during your capture and/or escape (I forget which, if not both, icons come from). The Hedge does react to your intentions, yes, but you still have to act out those intentions. You'll be faced with chasing against not only the hedge, but also with trying to outrun some hobs, or a huntsman following you; you might need to stop the chase and fight off some attackers, perhaps.

              And, when you get to the site the icon was at, you might find that it was taken by some hob merchants, so you'll need to continue tracking to get to a Market and barter for it, etc. Lots of potential complications beyond just rolling for a chase that will drag out the difficulty.

              I don't know if you need to know "certain things" before you start rolling, since looking for signs of those "certain things" is, itself, a hedge spinning roll and the start of a chase. And the hedge will respond to your searching (assuming you win) and give you those signs and knowledge you need as the first step in the chase.

              EDIT - or you can use an Investigation subsystem thing, and get Clues, which in turn can be used as equipment dice on the Chase.
              Last edited by MCN; 12-18-2017, 10:22 AM.

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              • Do True Fae have Mask? Can they scour it for benefits?

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                • Originally posted by Weird View Post
                  Do True Fae have Mask? Can they scour it for benefits?
                  Yes. But only in the form of an individual Title, and there's always a Tell of some kind that leeks through.

                  And I'm fairly sure it can be scoured on Earth just like any changeling ( I think this is true of hobs and all other critters with a Mask as well? )

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                  • Would a mortal or non-changeling that has the hedge denizen condition be altered physically as well and in that way gain a mask and a mein? Of course, referring to the Kickstarter documents. Then, for the goblin contracts they gain, are they able to get glamour in any way or are they restricted to using the loophole only?

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                    • Originally posted by Mr.F.I.X. View Post
                      Would a mortal or non-changeling that has the hedge denizen condition be altered physically as well and in that way gain a mask and a mein? Of course, referring to the Kickstarter documents. Then, for the goblin contracts they gain, are they able to get glamour in any way or are they restricted to using the loophole only?
                      Well, I would say no to Mask/Mien, barring picking up something like Riddle-kith*. Or some other kind of goblin deal to get them. Or just ST ruling, but given the below, I'd say the default is no. It appears that we can get Wyrd and glamour, though.

                      Looking at the sample antagonist Liza Cantwell, Age 9, Goblin Queen... the poor girl picked up Wyrd and a glamour pool, but the description seems to be human still, and there is no seeming or kith. Mien is the result of having a Seeming and/or Kith's blessings (as per pdf 2) that reshapes your appearance, and without a faerie appearance, I'd say no Mask. So, as items exposed to the magic of the Hedge eventually become tokens, it appears that non-fae exposed to the hedge long term pick up Wyrd and glamour.

                      * Riddle-kith, when used on yourself with the darkling and elemental clauses, basically lets you transform your seeming and kith indefinitely. I'd say that could give a non-changeling such things.

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                      • @MCN but don't hobgoblins benifit from a mask ironside? I could have sworn I'd seen that. In part it's wondering just how much of a hob hedge denizen makes you.

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                        • Sure they do... IF they have an appearance that doesn't match up to something common in Ironside. The Mask is designed to hide the mien, aka fae features (which generally are the result of Seeming and Kith, as per pdf) from mortal view. If there are no fae featuers, then there's no Mask. And there are hobs that look entirely like creatures found Ironside.

                          Hedge Denizen and Goblin Queen aren't adding a mien to a character by default; they're deliberately just Conditions, not a new template. That's why we can have changelings with those Conditions and have no issues in game play.

                          If the ST wants there to be mutation and adopt a mien? That's cool, I'm all for that. But its not a requirement, and I consider that more of the exception than the rule.

                          Now, items and animals left in the Hedge DO mutate into full hobgoblins if left unattended over time. You make tokens by marinating items of worth. The Thorns leech away part of a being and warp them into "weirder, truer versions of their old selves." But that's a function of the Thorns themselves, rather than the Hedge Denizen / Goblin Queen Contracts, and is entirely in the STs's hand on how that happens. If a Hedge Denizen sticks to the trods, they might never undergo said warping.

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                          • I kinda figured that their features did warp, if even slightly, by virtue of automatically obtaining contracts and contracts change the mien.



                            Frequent Story Teller for the Circle of Five gaming group.

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                            • i think the way contracts affects a changeling mien is different then how it would effect someone else. people who have souls (Integrity) may just be more stable in their own sanctity of form than one of the Lost, whose soul was shredded when they were dragged through the thorns and then patched up with fairy magic and moonbeams by capricious, all powerful otherworldly entities.

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                              • Hi guys,

                                Does a changeling, when he takes a comatose condition, really falls asleep or does he sleepwalk?

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