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Ask a Simple Question, Get a Simple Answer: Changeling Edition

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  • From the second preview doc: When in doubt, Storytellers should always favor iron piercing fae magic, or otherwise being immune to it. This limitation even applies to the basic advantages changeling characters possess; for example, iron restraints make a changeling unable to escape automatically with Glamour.



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    • Originally posted by tasti man LH View Post
      Regarding cold iron and using Contracts: if a changeling is in contact with cold iron does it impede their ability to use Contracts, even if the Contract isn't specifically targeting the iron?

      For instance, if a changeling was imprisoned by cold iron chains and wanted to use Unravel the Tapestry to jump back in time to before he got the chains slapped on him and then try to stop that from happening on his second chance. Would the Contract still work as intended, or would it not on the basis of the changeling being in contact with cold iron while invoking the Contract?
      If a Changeling could do that, what would be the danger of being trapped in iron, especially if they were a Darkling and hid in the shadows, or used any number of other contracts to simply slip through the walls or become invisible?

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      • Originally posted by HelmsDerp View Post
        From the second preview doc: When in doubt, Storytellers should always favor iron piercing fae magic, or otherwise being immune to it. This limitation even applies to the basic advantages changeling characters possess; for example, iron restraints make a changeling unable to escape automatically with Glamour.
        Originally posted by Taidragon View Post

        If a Changeling could do that, what would be the danger of being trapped in iron, especially if they were a Darkling and hid in the shadows, or used any number of other contracts to simply slip through the walls or become invisible?
        Got it, thanks.

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        • Originally posted by Satchel View Post
          Here's the thing: They don't.

          Specific wording of the section's opening line notwithstanding, the requirement is that the changeling appear to the mortal in question without their Mask and make an offer — they explicitly don't have to give any details about why they have burning hair or extra digits or cloven hooves, or even reveal their mundane identity.

          What this produces is an identifiable narrative and role for a character who can otherwise have at least one entity sharing their Mask at any given time, as well as a relationship that can be entirely confined to "the woman with obsidian teeth and a nacreous throat helps me get rid of the dead bodies that keep turning up behind my butcher shop twice a week in exchange for her pick of the choice cuts."
          Interesting thought just occurred: so could you, as a Changeling, invade a given person's dream, up the intensity such that they'll remember (lucid dreaming), and then reveal your form without Mask and bargain with them? Or, does it have to accomplished entirely Ironside?

          Originally posted by Satchel View Post
          I feel like it's notable that one of the main benefits of Obliged is shared with Goblin Queen, which itself shares Hedge Denizen's specification of "you look very different from how people might have otherwise known you, but you have a tell."
          I fail to follow. And will take a dramatic failure to ask for clarification. Are you hinting at the increased difficulty of Huntsmen to find the character as being similar between Obliged and Goblin Queen?

          --Khanwulf

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          • Originally posted by Taidragon View Post

            If a Changeling could do that, what would be the danger of being trapped in iron, especially if they were a Darkling and hid in the shadows, or used any number of other contracts to simply slip through the walls or become invisible?
            Yep, and once of the biggest dangers to a Changeling in a DE is that they will be caught by the local authorities and hammered into iron manacles as a matter of course. Escaping from a prison cell with iron bars won't be hard, however, unless they are also chained up with the stuff, since there is likely a stone or wooden wall/floor/ceiling to work with. Modern steel handcuffs, however, are not iron, and therefore easy to escape from.

            Makes you wonder if there's a Changeling industrialist who labored hard in the 1800s to perfect widespread steel manufacturing....

            Note again that iron in this case doesn't have to be cold iron just regular iron would be disruptive enough to prevent easy escape.

            --Khanwulf

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            • New question. Easy one I promise?

              How would a Changeling draw multiple sleepers (lowercase "s") into the same dream? Is that feasible? The character is basically merging Bastions in that case, no?

              --Khanwulf

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              • Originally posted by Khanwulf View Post

                How would a Changeling draw multiple sleepers (lowercase "s") into the same dream? Is that feasible? The character is basically merging Bastions in that case, no?
                It depends on what you're trying to do. A whole motley can enter the same dream at once just by falling asleep while in physical contact with one another. (The intended image is probably "laying on the floor, holding hands" but I am also in favor of the "sleeping in a big ol' puppy pile" interpretation.) One member of the group then rolls to pass through the Gate of Ivory and onto the Dreaming Roads, and she can bring the rest with her unless they spend Glamour to resist. Non-Changelings, including other supernaturals, can be brought along the same way.

                If your questions is, "How can this changeling gather the motley (or group otherwise specified) together in a dream if they're not together in the waking world?" there doesn't seem to be any way to do this in the RAW. Changelings would have to separately enter the Dreaming Roads and meet up there. The text implies that mortals can end up on the Dreaming Roads by accident, so maaaybe you can bring a dreamer out of their Bastion without waking them -- but there's no indication of whether the Bastion would remain, like an empty set, or would crumble as soon as the dreamer leaves. And you'd still need to conduct each dreamer along the Dreaming Roads to whatever Bastion you wanted to gather them into, and then get them in...

                All that said, I'd say the best way to achieve this effect would be to create a set of Tokens with the explicit power of "draws sleeping owners into a common Bastion when activated." A set of chessmen, for instance, which can be activated by whoever possesses the king. Then your problem is distributing the rest of the pieces to the intended targets, and making sure they keep them.

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                • Gonna repost these and one more unrelated question to see if they get answered this time

                  Huntsman questions: Do Huntsmen just harvest glamour normally, or can they eat Goblin Fruits, reap glamour, or do other special stuff?

                  And Also, do they all have the same array of Huntsmen Dread Powers?

                  On a related note, does Hunter's Panoply do anything other than giving them signature weapons and tells?

                  Would the classic iron horseshoe hung over the door be enough to stop Contracts that affect the house and those currently inside its walls? Would an iron good-luck charm, as rare as that is, protect against stuff like the Fleeting Seasonal Contracts?


                  A god is just a monster you kneel to. - ArcaneArts, Quoting "Fall of Gods"

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                  • Originally posted by Mad_Maudlin View Post

                    It depends on what you're trying to do. A whole motley can enter the same dream at once just by falling asleep while in physical contact with one another. (The intended image is probably "laying on the floor, holding hands" but I am also in favor of the "sleeping in a big ol' puppy pile" interpretation.) One member of the group then rolls to pass through the Gate of Ivory and onto the Dreaming Roads, and she can bring the rest with her unless they spend Glamour to resist. Non-Changelings, including other supernaturals, can be brought along the same way.

                    If your questions is, "How can this changeling gather the motley (or group otherwise specified) together in a dream if they're not together in the waking world?" there doesn't seem to be any way to do this in the RAW. Changelings would have to separately enter the Dreaming Roads and meet up there. The text implies that mortals can end up on the Dreaming Roads by accident, so maaaybe you can bring a dreamer out of their Bastion without waking them -- but there's no indication of whether the Bastion would remain, like an empty set, or would crumble as soon as the dreamer leaves. And you'd still need to conduct each dreamer along the Dreaming Roads to whatever Bastion you wanted to gather them into, and then get them in...

                    All that said, I'd say the best way to achieve this effect would be to create a set of Tokens with the explicit power of "draws sleeping owners into a common Bastion when activated." A set of chessmen, for instance, which can be activated by whoever possesses the king. Then your problem is distributing the rest of the pieces to the intended targets, and making sure they keep them.

                    Excellent and useful response, calling up several possibilities. I had in mind specifically things like "several sleepers are in a general area (e.g. town)--how to get them to the shared experience of a dream?" Going in and taking them on a trip, one by one, sounds like a good adventure.

                    Then the shortcut (Token) could work but I also recall a (ancient playtest) Contract (?I think?) that had the Changeling craft a small item and leave it within the target's dream-self... after which they would be favorably inclined to the Changeling so long as the object remained in their Bastion. A Contract that involved giving a token (small "t") to the target, and then drew their dreaming self either to the Changeling's Bastion or a third location could work, no?

                    --Khanwulf

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                    • 1) Is there a way for mortal occultists to cause Glamour loss (especially in Gentry)?

                      1) a) What're the effects of new new Bane of Iron?

                      2) What's the tl;dr version of the new new fluff of core Seemings?


                      Simurgh, Mysterium Thyrsus in Mountains of Shadow (IC|OOC)

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                      • Originally posted by Master Aquatosic View Post
                        Huntsman questions: Do Huntsmen just harvest glamour normally, or can they eat Goblin Fruits, reap glamour, or do other special stuff?

                        And Also, do they all have the same array of Huntsmen Dread Powers?

                        On a related note, does Hunter's Panoply do anything other than giving them signature weapons and tells?
                        Huntsmen recover Glamour by reaping and eating goblin fruit. They cannot harvest Glamour.

                        There are four Dread Powers shared by all Huntsmen. Each Huntsman then has other Dread Powers selected from the general Horror list, or from a provided list of six more Dread Powers which are unique to Huntsmen, but not shared by all of them.

                        The Hunter's Panoply Dread Power confers certain benefits to using the Huntsman's signature weapons and tools, and allows them to recall their panoply with Glamour when lost, but imposes a penalty when they attempt an action they would normally use their tool for without first recovering it.

                        Originally posted by Tambov View Post
                        1) Is there a way for mortal occultists to cause Glamour loss (especially in Gentry)?

                        1) a) What're the effects of new new Bane of Iron?

                        2) What's the tl;dr version of the new new fluff of core Seemings?
                        There is no provided method by which a mortal occultist would sap Glamour from the fae. That's not to say it couldn't somehow be done, but there's no relevant core mechanic.

                        Iron bypasses magical fae defenses and resists magical fae manipulation, and changelings bound by iron can't portal out of it. Hand-forged iron inflicts aggravated damage to changelings and the True Fae.

                        The fluff identity of the core Seemings is largely in keeping with the first edition Seemings. The writeups emphasize agency and the "now" of the Seemings somewhat more than first edition, which largely emphasized the "then" of the Durance more, but this is a difference of degree, not kind. Ogres gain a bit more of painting as defenders of the things they care about once they escape the Durance, and the element of spite doesn't drive the Wizened as much, who are instead largely restless and in need of control, driven to plan and labor because it's empowering.
                        Last edited by Stupid Loserman; 02-05-2018, 04:59 PM.

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                        • Originally posted by Khanwulf View Post
                          Interesting thought just occurred: so could you, as a Changeling, invade a given person's dream, up the intensity such that they'll remember (lucid dreaming), and then reveal your form without Mask and bargain with them? Or, does it have to accomplished entirely Ironside?
                          Dream Intensity no longer being a thing notwithstanding, that is in fact a thing that I have previously leaned on in prior discussions where "the target has to see you with your Mask is a huge risk" was presented as an argument against bargains' utility — the most basic long-term oneiromancy effect allows you to give someone information that they will remember in content without remembering its source.

                          I fail to follow. And will take a dramatic failure to ask for clarification. Are you hinting at the increased difficulty of Huntsmen to find the character as being similar between Obliged and Goblin Queen?
                          --Khanwulf
                          Increased difficulty of any fae to track the character, but yes.

                          The evolutionary pressures of the Wyrd make "magical subcontractor" a natural role for changelings to fall into, and that manifests in a lot of different ways.
                          Last edited by Satchel; 02-05-2018, 09:25 PM.


                          Resident Sanguinary Analyst
                          Currently Consuming: Changeling: the Lost 1e

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                          • Doesn't a Changeling appear as her true self while in a dream anyways, be it in her own dreams or of those she visits?

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                            • I'm quite sure this has been already discussed somewhere.

                              How does Mask interact with recording devices? Essentially, there apper to be two reasonable rulings:
                              (i) Since Mask is an illusion, a photo of a changeling records only Mien, but the photo itself is only subject to a Mask. In particular, other changelings can just look at a picture of a large group and immediately tell whether some changelings or other Fae creatures are present there.
                              (ii) Mask is not only an illusion, it actually interacts with recording devices so as to produce the image of the Mask. No one can ever tell, whether you are a Changeling or not just by looking at some pictures.

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                              • Is Wyrd pronounced "word" or "weird"? It has been bugging me for a while now.

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