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Ask a Simple Question, Get a Simple Answer: Changeling Edition

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  • Originally posted by Satchel View Post
    Having no Glamour in your system means you will starve in relatively short order, as well as being nearly incapable of avoiding the notice of any fae that come your way. It's theoretically possible for you to coast by at Wyrd 1 with a single point of Glamour in this manner without running into any other fae, but the nature of the game makes that incredibly unlikely.

    Also, depending on how you read some of the breaking points, it's possible that simply venting all the Glamour you have on hand in short bursts and not being able to talk about your experiences or have contact with other changelings is going to gradually wear on your Clarity as readily as lies and rejection do.
    I suppose that's all partly dependent on the activity cycles of the Huntsmen, how often they're in your area, and how often you're rubbing shoulders with Hedge-denizens and other Changelings. If you do so frequently then your efforts to be magically-minimal will suffer.

    Pluvinarch to answer your question with an idea, it was proposed in ... an early 2e draft? I think? That a Changeling could maybe starve down her Wyrd to 1 and run on minimal Glamour in order to set up the possibility of destroying their fetch (and consuming it?) to become human again. I doubt that sort of edge-case text will make the final cut, however.

    --Khanwulf

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    • Originally posted by Khanwulf View Post

      I suppose that's all partly dependent on the activity cycles of the Huntsmen, how often they're in your area, and how often you're rubbing shoulders with Hedge-denizens and other Changelings. If you do so frequently then your efforts to be magically-minimal will suffer.

      Pluvinarch to answer your question with an idea, it was proposed in ... an early 2e draft? I think? That a Changeling could maybe starve down her Wyrd to 1 and run on minimal Glamour in order to set up the possibility of destroying their fetch (and consuming it?) to become human again. I doubt that sort of edge-case text will make the final cut, however.

      --Khanwulf
      I think one reason it was cut was for a simple reason; the Wyrd in 2e is a cosmic balancing act. By being taken you gained phenomenal powers and magics as compensation. Abstaining from using that power at Wyrd 1, and then killing your Fetch once it had taken your magic...doesn't make sense in that context. Your very soul has been made Fae, and your mind has been stripped of human faculties to the point that your vices and virtues aren't how you regain will. It is acting true to yourself and to your image that you gain willpower back. How can you truly be "human" without any of fixing that? How can you fix any of that?

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      • Originally posted by Taidragon View Post

        I think one reason it was cut was for a simple reason; the Wyrd in 2e is a cosmic balancing act. By being taken you gained phenomenal powers and magics as compensation. Abstaining from using that power at Wyrd 1, and then killing your Fetch once it had taken your magic...doesn't make sense in that context. Your very soul has been made Fae, and your mind has been stripped of human faculties to the point that your vices and virtues aren't how you regain will. It is acting true to yourself and to your image that you gain willpower back. How can you truly be "human" without any of fixing that? How can you fix any of that?
        From a dramatic perspective, I can see some changelings who just escaped their ordeal and trying to deny all that happened to them. They will fail, but it makes good stories.

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        • Originally posted by Taidragon View Post

          I think one reason it was cut was for a simple reason; the Wyrd in 2e is a cosmic balancing act. By being taken you gained phenomenal powers and magics as compensation. Abstaining from using that power at Wyrd 1, and then killing your Fetch once it had taken your magic...doesn't make sense in that context. Your very soul has been made Fae, and your mind has been stripped of human faculties to the point that your vices and virtues aren't how you regain will. It is acting true to yourself and to your image that you gain willpower back. How can you truly be "human" without any of fixing that? How can you fix any of that?
          How can you fix any of that? Dunno. But as Pluvinarch alludes the effort makes a good story. After all, "I wanna be a real boy!" is a firm story trope.

          Part of me wants to believe that the struggle for Changelings to hope and adapt, by itself is valuable to the Keepers, in that it continues to generate "story" in ways that channel glamour back to Arcadia. If this surmise is even partially correct, it could explain why some Changelings and Holds are left more or less alone by the Huntsmen, or... just enough so to keep the inhabitants of the fishbowl properly terrified.

          Anyway, I'd also like to believe that it is possible to become human again--even if difficult--but that doing so never really sheds ties completely. There will always be something tugging at the back of the mind. Something... watching.

          --Khanwulf

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          • Becoming human again, huh. I hear the 2E preview has the Comatose Condition, where the wounds on your psyche are so great you retreat into an unending, blissful dream... (evil giggle)


            MtAw Homebrew: Even more Legacies, updated to 2E

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            • A Gentry can have titles and for each title he can manifest as an actor, a prop, a realm or wisps. So I guess, for a Storyteller planning a long term campaign, maybe the actor can be defeated by an epic battle or a broken pledge, the prop can also be destroyed, the wisps can be killed... But what about the realm? How do players fight a realm? Do they have to burn it down?

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              • Originally posted by Khanwulf View Post

                How can you fix any of that? Dunno. But as Pluvinarch alludes the effort makes a good story. After all, "I wanna be a real boy!" is a firm story trope.

                Part of me wants to believe that the struggle for Changelings to hope and adapt, by itself is valuable to the Keepers, in that it continues to generate "story" in ways that channel glamour back to Arcadia. If this surmise is even partially correct, it could explain why some Changelings and Holds are left more or less alone by the Huntsmen, or... just enough so to keep the inhabitants of the fishbowl properly terrified.

                Anyway, I'd also like to believe that it is possible to become human again--even if difficult--but that doing so never really sheds ties completely. There will always be something tugging at the back of the mind. Something... watching.

                --Khanwulf
                I really hate to pick nits here, but that concept of "story" generation is part of the reason I think that Hill's version of the Courts needed a lot of reworking. You haven't escaped the Gentry, you're just appeasing them so they don't come and stomp you dead. What's the point of leaving if you're just doing what they want, you are now exposed to something that hurts you and negates your powers, and you have less magical power in your day to day life?


                Originally posted by Pluvinarch View Post
                A Gentry can have titles and for each title he can manifest as an actor, a prop, a realm or wisps. So I guess, for a Storyteller planning a long term campaign, maybe the actor can be defeated by an epic battle or a broken pledge, the prop can also be destroyed, the wisps can be killed... But what about the realm? How do players fight a realm? Do they have to burn it down?
                You don't need to kill the Realm, as it were - you need to go for the physical Title itself. Dispute the Gentry's claim to the Title and you dispute the abilities that come from it, as well as their manifested form.

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                • Equinox Road has this to say about killing a Realm: “Crush the purple rose that grows on the tallest peak, for it contains her vital essence.” He doesn’t say that this is only true because his enemy’s taken the form of a Realm, or that this particular weakness is driven by the Legend the enemy’s playing out"

                  Now, this doesn't necessarily apply to all Realms, and certainly they don't all have purple flowers, but the implication seems to be that Realms have some kind of critical weakness that can be exploited the same way as an Actor's Banes. The thermal exhaust port on the Death Star, if you will.





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                  • Originally posted by Taidragon View Post

                    I really hate to pick nits here, but that concept of "story" generation is part of the reason I think that Hill's version of the Courts needed a lot of reworking. You haven't escaped the Gentry, you're just appeasing them so they don't come and stomp you dead. What's the point of leaving if you're just doing what they want, you are now exposed to something that hurts you and negates your powers, and you have less magical power in your day to day life?
                    Yes... and I'm not well-enough read in Changeling to take the thought further. Really looking for 2e to lay a firm foundation. That said, the view of "Changelings as not-really escapees" could at least be a flawed thought process a Privateer might use to justify their involvement.

                    After all, if you've escaped your cell and are running around the prison yard pretending to be free, what's the real moral issue with putting a few actors back in their cage now and then? It's not like the warden's couldn't do it whenever, right? May as well get some brownie points and all....

                    I'm not advocating this as a Truth (capital T), just pointing out that Courts or no, it looks like a potential conclusion a character could reach, given everything.

                    --Khanwulf

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Taidragon View Post
                      I really hate to pick nits here, but that concept of "story" generation is part of the reason I think that Hill's version of the Courts needed a lot of reworking. You haven't escaped the Gentry, you're just appeasing them so they don't come and stomp you dead. What's the point of leaving if you're just doing what they want, you are now exposed to something that hurts you and negates your powers, and you have less magical power in your day to day life?
                      This is part of why I prefer the mercantile emphasis over the specifically-narrative angle — a political-economic magical context means it's very simple to illustrate "Your Keeper's wants and resources do not exist in a vacuum and the things you do to get around them matter" without reducing it to playing Scheherazade to keep the gods at bay.


                      Resident Sanguinary Analyst
                      Currently Consuming: Changeling: the Lost 1e

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                      • Originally posted by Satchel View Post
                        This is part of why I prefer the mercantile emphasis over the specifically-narrative angle — a political-economic magical context means it's very simple to illustrate "Your Keeper's wants and resources do not exist in a vacuum and the things you do to get around them matter" without reducing it to playing Scheherazade to keep the gods at bay.
                        I'm feeling dense and distracted. Might you expand a bit on your quoted paradigm--perhaps with an example?

                        You are referring to the transactional nature or Arcadian "magic", yes?

                        --Khanwulf the Tired

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                        • Originally posted by Khanwulf View Post
                          I'm feeling dense and distracted. Might you expand a bit on your quoted paradigm--perhaps with an example?
                          The Fae don't approach the denizens of the Grey City Freehold without caution.

                          This has basically nothing to do with its alignment with the story of the interplay between the Great Chicago Fire and the World's Columbian Exposition; it's just that the Bright Face and the Long Shadow that watch over the Courts of Dread and Defiance are infamously litigious forces squatting on a massive cache of dreams and debt, and the last thing any crusading Gentry want to countenance is the prospect of losing Their estate to a hobgoblin prince or an overgrown Bedlam-ghost.

                          So they play it cool and wait for an opportune moment, which might not be on a straightforward timeline because their fellows are watching for the exact same chances and there's only so much room on the trods for fae agents on the ground, particularly in the case of the major investment a Huntsman represents.

                          You are referring to the transactional nature or Arcadian "magic", yes?
                          The very same.
                          Last edited by Satchel; 05-30-2018, 11:30 PM. Reason: Different big word that starts with "ex" and ends with "ition."


                          Resident Sanguinary Analyst
                          Currently Consuming: Changeling: the Lost 1e

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                          • Thanks Satchel, that's very helpful. Let me check myself....

                            Ok, so essentially what will give the Gentry pause is the possibility that someone can use the same mechanisms as well as they can, to force the issues and exploit the loopholes that exist (because they have to exist). In other words, someone is as clever, as invested, or as resourced as they are. Natch.

                            If you're a Freehold that doesn't have a "крыша" (roof) to cover you, then you get huntsmen bi-weekly and twice on St. Patrick's Day? Obvious spur for Changelings to properly organize is obvious, no? So They play around the edges waiting for some Changelings (preferably "Their" Changeling) to go solo and try to live in the cracks, right?

                            Which is once of the reasons the Changelings try to find a place in the world, no? It make it harder from a contractual standpoint to just scoop them up--because they have ties that have to be respected, even if you're an alien demigod. I suppose this makes some sense, since after all you can't just tie up a Changeling and expect them to stick around... have to use red tape to accomplish that--the Headless Horseman only can get you AND keep you if you do X and Y and don't Z.

                            --Khanwulf

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                            • Originally posted by Khanwulf View Post
                              Ok, so essentially what will give the Gentry pause is the possibility that someone can use the same mechanisms as well as they can, to force the issues and exploit the loopholes that exist (because they have to exist). In other words, someone is as clever, as invested, or as resourced as they are. Natch.

                              If you're a Freehold that doesn't have a "крыша" (roof) to cover you, then you get huntsmen bi-weekly and twice on St. Patrick's Day? Obvious spur for Changelings to properly organize is obvious, no? So They play around the edges waiting for some Changelings (preferably "Their" Changeling) to go solo and try to live in the cracks, right?
                              There's all that and also the other side of the coin: Sometimes a Keeper just doesn't see much worth in dispatching agents to retrieve a wayward servant.

                              This is the paradox of the Courts: they make it substantially harder for the Fae to go after a changeling, but they also foster much greater returns to a Stranger who's prepared to wait for their lost seed of fae magic to blossom into a little portfolio of connections and materiel and bargaining chips. Changelings with a Court to cover them have more opportunities to raise their Wyrd, which makes them easier to find as they become more powerful, and the next thing you know you're Wyrd 7 and running a hobgoblin commune to cover your debts because being hard to find and possessed of a shifting roster of abilities is more important than holding Courtly rank and power and what was that at the window? (Goblin Debt is a gift, as mechanics go.)

                              This is a markedly different state of affairs than "you exist at Our sufferance" — a monstrous god being prideful enough to think He can leave you alone and wait for you to get stronger is more than just a narrative beat, it's a political gamble based in the Fae's greed and ego and drive for conquest, which nevertheless contains the possibility of failure (a possibility that other fae can influence). That you might sacrifice your childhood trumpet to the Thorns for a weapon against the Others and court the favor of long-hidden hobgoblin witnesses to oaths sworn by moonlight among the misty gardens of the Gentry only sweetens the pot — everything has a price, even if it's just in the form of lost opportunities, and if you can get someone else pay it for you then so much the better.

                              The fae inhabit a world of gates and bridges, and negotiating either takes its toll with or without the framework of dreams and stories.


                              Resident Sanguinary Analyst
                              Currently Consuming: Changeling: the Lost 1e

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                              • Originally posted by Satchel View Post
                                There's all that and also the other side of the coin: Sometimes a Keeper just doesn't see much worth in dispatching agents to retrieve a wayward servant.
                                ​Thank you again, Satchel, this enriches the perspective greatly. And, for bringing up the above quote, which was also on mind: why bother if some other poor sot will do the trick and become a brand new shoe-polisher to break all over again? Old tools are old, and boring, after all! Leaving your escapee fallow to sprout new, useful crops may make him more valuable in the end. And... fun!

                                ---

                                Let me pivot to another question, spurred from reading bits of Equinox Road the other day.

                                So in Arcadia items are either ephemeral, real (and thus intelligent) or Hedge-spun, right? Am I missing a category? I mean, what about the clothing your Changeling slaves wears? Do all escapees show up either naked or with Hedge-spun stuff on?

                                What about taking other things out of Durance? Do they have to be Hedge-spun? You cannot have a mundane gold coin with your Keeper's likeness on it, for random example?

                                Feel like I'm missing something here, as well.

                                --Khanwulf

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