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  • Originally posted by Firefly Night View Post
    The way I parsed it, you have a total of 6 contracts. Four Common, Two Royal. Quite the power boost.
    Correct - four Common, two Royal.


    Meghan Fitzgerald | Onyx Path freelance writer & developer
    Changeling: The Lost developer
    Mage: The Awakening developer

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    • Questions regarding "cold iron" --

      Page 102 - So-called “cold iron” acts as a frailty bane for changelings
      and True Fae. To qualify as “cold iron,” the metal
      must be mostly pure iron and magic cannot play a role
      in its creation in any way. It must be hand-forged, not
      mass-produced, cast, or created by a machine. Touching
      this iron inflicts aggravated damage on the Gentry and
      changelings.


      Question 1: If Iron acts as bane (as defined several paragraphs earlier) for changelings, what severity is it? (I assume that since it inflicts Aggravated damage, that it is considered a major frailty.)

      Question 2: If it is considered a frailty as defined in the corebook, does it share all the same traits as a major frailty? IE: Willpower expenditure needed to act against cold iron? -5 penalty to all rolls when acting against it? unable to heal wounds inflicted by the weapon as long as they are in presence of the bane that damaged them? etc etc

      Question 3: Does intent matter when it comes to using Cold Iron as a weapon in terms of the vague term "acting against"? For ex: If August Montalvo, Summer Court thug, has a cold iron spike embedded into a baseball bat to use as a weapon in an upcoming conflict ... would his fairy enemies have to spend a Willpower point per turn to stand against him? And if they decided to spend the willpower, would their attacks against August suffer a -5 penalty?

      Or does intent not matter to Cold Iron? Is it automatically considered to be "working" against all things of Faerie whether or not it is being handled? In the above example, if August were to try and wield the aforementioned spike studded baseball bat, would he and his allies suffer the negative effects of being in the presence of Cold iron as well?

      If intent does matter, could the abjuring aura of Iron be used to hinder changelings even if the Iron-wielder isn't around? Like ... if I pound a cold iron spike into the wood of my front door, because of a superstition says that doing so will protect my home from fairies, would changelings suffer the bane's effects when trying to break in or scry?
      Last edited by Firefly Night; 01-07-2019, 05:28 PM. Reason: spelling

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      • I guess the question was not simple enough?

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        • Damage wise I'd rule it as similar to silver for werewolves. Bashing (or lethal in some circumstances) from touching it, Agg if it is being used to harm. I would probably not give it a willpower to act against it as cold iron lacks intent. It is the antithesis of the fae and isn't bound by wordings and intents. It is painfully real and the epitome of cause and effect and it flat out cancels any fae magic it contacts. In regards to the area of effect of the cold iron in the door example I think it is largely up to the GM discretion. A changeling couldn't use magic against the door itself and would probably hurt themselves if they touched the iron directly, but it becomes a grey area if they want to break a window with a nearby rock and sneak in that way.

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          • Originally posted by Firefly Night View Post
            Questions regarding "cold iron" --





            Question 1: If Iron acts as bane (as defined several paragraphs earlier) for changelings, what severity is it? (I assume that since it inflicts Aggravated damage, that it is considered a major frailty.)
            Major frailty, so Aggravated Damage.

            Question 2: If it is considered a frailty as defined in the corebook, does it share all the same traits as a major frailty? IE: Willpower expenditure needed to act against cold iron? -5 penalty to all rolls when acting against it? unable to heal wounds inflicted by the weapon as long as they are in presence of the bane that damaged them? etc etc
            That's my reading, yes. Though, in many ways it's even stronger than that, as no faerie magic can affect any sort of iron ("cold" or otherwise).

            Question 3: Does intent matter when it comes to using Cold Iron as a weapon in terms of the vague term "acting against"? For ex: If August Montalvo, Summer Court thug, has a cold iron spike embedded into a baseball bat to use as a weapon in an upcoming conflict ... would his fairy enemies have to spend a Willpower point per turn to stand against him? And if they decided to spend the willpower, would their attacks against August suffer a -5 penalty?
            "Acting against" is "acting against." If the Faerie wanted to attack the cold iron spike they'd have to spend the willpower and take the penalty, but attacking August wouldn't trigger that. And, again, the Faerie would be unable to use any Contracts or other powers against the cold iron spike, Willpower expenditure or no.

            Or does intent not matter to Cold Iron? Is it automatically considered to be "working" against all things of Faerie whether or not it is being handled? In the above example, if August were to try and wield the aforementioned spike studded baseball bat, would he and his allies suffer the negative effects of being in the presence of Cold iron as well?


            If intent does matter, could the abjuring aura of Iron be used to hinder changelings even if the Iron-wielder isn't around? Like ... if I pound a cold iron spike into the wood of my front door, because of a superstition says that doing so will protect my home from fairies, would changelings suffer the bane's effects when trying to break in or scry?
            It's not kryptonite. If you wanted to protect against scrying it'd have to be fully covered in iron, though it wouldn't have to be "cold" iron to block magic.


            Mentats - a 2e Free Council Obrimos Legacy (Mind/Forces) built around being a human computer; Thaumatech Engineers - a 2e Free Council Obrimos Legacy (Matter/Prime) focusing on the creation of Imbued items and the enhancement of Sleeper technology

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            • Are there any kiths whose Trickery power does not require an activation roll or do the kith creation rules explicitly say that is a feature of all Trickeries?


              A god is just a monster you kneel to. - ArcaneArts, Quoting "Fall of Gods"

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              • Originally posted by Master Aquatosic View Post
                Are there any kiths whose Trickery power does not require an activation roll or do the kith creation rules explicitly say that is a feature of all Trickeries?
                Yeah, the Build-a-Kith rules specifically say that it requires a "conscious effort" in order to use them. It does say that it only "most commonly" requires spending a Glamour point and using an Attribute + Skill roll,, if for some reason you wanted the Trickery to be activated by other means you can.

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                • Originally posted by proindrakenzol View Post
                  "Acting against" is "acting against." If the Faerie wanted to attack the cold iron spike they'd have to spend the willpower and take the penalty, but attacking August wouldn't trigger that. And, again, the Faerie would be unable to use any Contracts or other powers against the cold iron spike, Willpower expenditure or no.
                  Thanks so much for your answers. Got me thinking ...

                  While I see the point of this, thematically, it doesn't seem really to jive with the idea of supernatural banes as described in folklore ... and also there is this passage from the text, page 102 under the Frailties heading ...

                  Even acting
                  against the source of a bane is difficult: Doing so requires
                  spending a point of Willpower per action, which does not
                  add dice to the pool. Additionally, the character suffers
                  a three-die penalty on all rolls related to acting against
                  the cause
                  of a minor frailty. This penalty increases to −5
                  when acting against a major frailty.
                  Major banes
                  are common substances or situations, and rapidly prove
                  fatal to the changeling if touched or experienced. Examples
                  include an inability to go outside while the moon
                  (or sun) is in the sky, being forced to walk backwards
                  or hop at all times, the sound of a child’s laughter, or
                  touching glass.
                  So, in this case ... let's say that the sound of Child's laughter is the Major Bane. The bolded wording in my above quote states that *acting* against the sourceof the frailty imparts a penalty. In example regarding children's laughter ... by using your interpretation, acting against the child (the source of the laughter) wouldn't be penalized because only actions taken against the substance of the bane (in this case the laughter) takes the hit. That really doesn't seem to jive with the feel of the game.

                  What ya think?

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                  • Originally posted by Firefly Night View Post

                    Thanks so much for your answers. Got me thinking ...

                    While I see the point of this, thematically, it doesn't seem really to jive with the idea of supernatural banes as described in folklore ... and also there is this passage from the text, page 102 under the Frailties heading ...





                    So, in this case ... let's say that the sound of Child's laughter is the Major Bane. The bolded wording in my above quote states that *acting* against the sourceof the frailty imparts a penalty. In example regarding children's laughter ... by using your interpretation, acting against the child (the source of the laughter) wouldn't be penalized because only actions taken against the substance of the bane (in this case the laughter) takes the hit. That really doesn't seem to jive with the feel of the game.

                    What ya think?


                    Personally, I like the idea of faeries as a whole being loophole abusing assholes about things. "The sound of a child's laughter" and "a child laughing" should be significantly different: the former could be recorded; the latter doesn't even need to be heard, simply be present.

                    And yes, in my opinion, the faerie could act against the source of the laughter unimpeded (in the case of the former), but would require the willpower expenditure to say, create a magical silence effect.


                    Mentats - a 2e Free Council Obrimos Legacy (Mind/Forces) built around being a human computer; Thaumatech Engineers - a 2e Free Council Obrimos Legacy (Matter/Prime) focusing on the creation of Imbued items and the enhancement of Sleeper technology

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                    • So, to be clear, when a Title is empowering a huntsman, it's unavailable for the True Fae to manifest in, right?

                      Could make life tricky for single-title keepers.

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                      • Originally posted by Elfive View Post
                        So, to be clear, when a Title is empowering a huntsman, it's unavailable for the True Fae to manifest in, right?

                        Could make life tricky for single-title keepers.

                        The Keeper empowers a huntsman by imbueing its heart with their Title. The Keeper's Title still belongs to the Fairy who controls the Huntsman, which allows the verderer to access some unique abilities that it wouldn't normally have access to. If the empowering Title is the only one that the fairy lays claim to, it can manifest through its Name. In a way, this is a great way to hide for a down on their luck fairy looking to defend themselves from their Arcadian Rivals. The Title is buried in a Huntsman heart, that is in turn hidden in some rando's dreams. In order to strip that Title, a rival first has to find the Huntsman in the real world and kill it so that the Title returns to its Keeper. If the said Impecunious Fairy wanted a good insurance plan against dissolution, it could train a changeling champion that is unusually suited to evading capture and then let the changeling "escape" so it can set a Huntsman after the "wayward" Lost. Of course, the Durance of this changeling should be particularly nightmarish to ensure that they would want to escape in the first place. ..

                        But this sorta long game makes a lot of sense, in an insane way

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                        • Yeah, except reading through again I realised that a keeper is now a specific title (they need an aspiration about being a keeper), and the huntsman section refers to the huntsman "wear[ing] the livery of [their] queen" which sounds like it's the same title that manifests as the keeper.

                          So now I'm still confused.

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                          • Originally posted by Elfive View Post
                            Yeah, except reading through again I realised that a keeper is now a specific title (they need an aspiration about being a keeper), and the huntsman section refers to the huntsman "wear[ing] the livery of [their] queen" which sounds like it's the same title that manifests as the keeper.

                            So now I'm still confused.

                            I am not sure what you are confused about. A True Fae is a Name (the core of their being) wrapped in a number of Titles (from one to five). A Fairy can manifest its will through these Titles, with each one offering them nigh infinite power within a very specific poetic purview and possess a panoply of regalia as vessels of their dominion. Each Title has its own Aspirations, one of which may be "Keep changelings and make their life hell for the lulz."

                            Also, the embodiment of a particular Title in a fairy's portfolio doesn't *have* to be a person. The Title can manifest as a realm, or thing, or a pack of dogs with too-human eyes.

                            The fairy's Name is aware of all the things going on in the "lives" of their Titles. If one of their changelings escape, the guiding intelligence of the fairy (it's Name), can decide to get the slave back by temporarily empowering a verderer with the specific Title that has the "Keeper" Aspiration. While the Huntsman is off Ironside hunting down the escaped Changeling, the fairy has to rely upon embodiment through their other Titles or (if they are desperate) their Name. The Title still belongs to the Fairy and it informs the desires of the Huntsman

                            From what I can tell, there is nothing in 2e elaborating on the form that the Name takes when it is forced to become embodied. In First Edition;s "Equinox Roads" there was a whole section detailing the minutiae of fairy life in Arcadia, and how they constantly struggle and fight against each other not because they hate each other, but because they need conflict in order to survive.
                            Last edited by Firefly Night; 01-17-2019, 09:54 PM.

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                            • Yeah, I'm probably overthinking it.

                              It was mostly situations where the keeper would need to be both in arcadia (like, if they had other changelings) and empowering a huntsman. But you could say that a Name can manifest as any of it's titles if it needs to or something.

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                              • Originally posted by Elfive View Post
                                Yeah, I'm probably overthinking it.

                                It was mostly situations where the keeper would need to be both in arcadia (like, if they had other changelings) and empowering a huntsman. But you could say that a Name can manifest as any of it's titles if it needs to or something.
                                Yeah, I'm feeling you. One of my criticisms of the book in general is how the overwrought nature of the prose can distract certain readers (like me) from properly grokking the rules.

                                But yes, you are correct. The Name can Manifest as it any of its Titles whenever they like (unless, of course, the nature of the Title prevents it from doing so unless under special circumstances), even simultaneously.

                                For Example: The Keeper known as the Smiling Lord rules over an unending bacchanal deep in The Bleeding Woods that hosts a diverse array of monsters, both beautiful and grotesque, united by their lustful appetites, their dedication to revelry and their inability to say goodbye. Fairy Lords from across Arcadia visit for a chance to win the favor of his twin daughters, Weeping Ingenue and Secret Coquette, who are alike only in their shared hatred of their father. While at first charmed by the rampant hedonism on display, changelings made captive for entertainment or drudgery rapidly grow to despise the party and many make plans to leave. Sometimes, an exceptional changeling manages to actually escape ...

                                So, although it seems like there three different fairy lords here ... in truth, there is only one of the True Fae. The True Fae in the above example is manifesting itself, simultaneously, through four different Titles: The Smiling Lord, The Bleeding Woods, the Weeping Ingenue and Secret Coquette. Only one of them, the Smiling Lord, has the Keeper Aspiration ... so when it comes time to send out a Huntsman to bring back a changeling, the Smiling Lord "leaves" his unending party and the True Fae then stuffs that Title into the heart of a verderer. The Huntsman then takes on the Tell of the Title (a permenant wide, mirthful smile) and two Aspirations inspired by the animating Title (The Keeper Aspiration and the Craving Aspiration). While the Huntsman is off in the mortal world tracking down the lost changeling, the True Fae's will is still embodied by the Weeping Ingenue, Secret Coquette and the Bleeding Woods.

                                does that help?
                                Last edited by Firefly Night; 01-17-2019, 11:27 PM.

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