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Ask a Simple Question, Get a Simple Answer: Changeling Edition

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  • #76
    Originally posted by MCN View Post
    So, about the new material.... I just noticed with the new Autumn stuff, but what's with the big difference between Common and Royal Contracts going on?
    Is this not adequately explained in the primer at the start of the initial preview?


    Resident Sanguinary Analyst
    Currently Consuming: Changeling: the Lost 1e

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    • #77
      No. If it was, I wouldn't ask. "For servants or royals" makes zero sense in a Court, for instance. Why are Autumn Contracts divided thus? There has to be more going on, unless it's just a thin justification for raising a cost. Or an attempt to classify subtle v. Obvious magic and what will attract a huntsman.
      Last edited by MCN; 09-19-2017, 06:24 AM.

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      • #78
        Courts are absolutely divided into commoners and royalty. Autumn literally has a monarch.

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        • #79
          Originally posted by MCN View Post
          No. If it was, I wouldn't ask. "For servants or royals" makes zero sense in a Court, for instance. Why are Autumn Contracts divided thus? There has to be more going on, unless it's just a thin justification for raising a cost. Or an attempt to classify subtle v. Obvious magic and what will attract a huntsman.
          At least for Arcadian Contracts, it's said that Royal Contracts are ones that the Gentry forged for themselves. So the Gentry probably struck a deal with Autumn and other "Court patrons" somewhere in history, just as how they struck deals with almost everything else.


          MtAw Homebrew: Even more Legacies, updated to 2E

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          • #80
            Originally posted by MCN View Post
            No. If it was, I wouldn't ask. "For servants or royals" makes zero sense in a Court, for instance.
            And that was answered back in the thread discussing the initial preview:

            Originally posted by Rose Bailey View Post
            Court Contracts also come in Common and Royal categories. In this case “royalty,” rather than being those who rise to the levels of the Others, are those who rise to the levels of the Court founders.


            Resident Sanguinary Analyst
            Currently Consuming: Changeling: the Lost 1e

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            • #81
              Court Contracts were struck by changelings, for changelings and by changelings. Not the Gentry. So, I don't think that quite makes sense either. Why would they create an exclusive tier like such? This is not making sense.

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              • #82
                Originally posted by MCN View Post
                Court Contracts were struck by changelings, for changelings and by changelings. Not the Gentry. So, I don't think that quite makes sense either. Why would they create an exclusive tier like such? This is not making sense.
                It's not actually exclusive and there is zero reason to conclude that changelings devised the mechanical structure of Court Contracts just because they formed Courts. "Some of the things your patron grants your Court are common tricks while others are more strongly associated with legendary figures like its founder" is a simple division that can be seen as baked into the way the Wyrd does formal Contracts.

                This is fae magic to swear a notionally-aboveboard supernatural pact; the lack of direct involvement by the Gentry is why Court Contracts aren't divided into Regalia, but Goblin Contracts are the place to look if you're expecting Contracts sorted into a whole sort of general mishmash.
                Last edited by Satchel; 09-19-2017, 11:51 AM.


                Resident Sanguinary Analyst
                Currently Consuming: Changeling: the Lost 1e

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                • #83
                  Its exclusive. That's pretty much the definition of Royal Contracts being made to kept with the intent to the Gentry specifically. Long story short, there doesn't seem to be a reason other than just copying what others did for no strong reason, but it happened anyways. Got it.

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                  • #84
                    Originally posted by MCN View Post
                    Its exclusive. That's pretty much the definition of Royal Contracts being made to kept with the intent to the Gentry specifically. Long story short, there doesn't seem to be a reason other than just copying what others did for no strong reason, but it happened anyways. Got it.
                    My interpretation of it was that when changelings struck those bargains, they were treated as though they were Gentry. The founders of the Courts gained their new Contracts, with some that would be easily obtained by lesser members of the Court and others that were the special prize of the founders for striking the bargains in the first place. The fact that they'd be willing to share those with the others would be immaterial. The Contracts are Royal because they were bestowed in the same manner that the Royal Contracts of the Gentry were bestowed, and share the same mystical potency. They are the Contracts that the Gentry would have considered worth obtaining and holding for themselves.


                    Currently working on: DtD Night Horrors: Enemy Action
                    Projects I've contributed to: C20 Anthology of Dreams ("No Such Thing As Dragons")

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                    • #85
                      Originally posted by MCN View Post
                      Its exclusive. That's pretty much the definition of Royal Contracts being made to kept with the intent to the Gentry specifically. Long story short, there doesn't seem to be a reason other than just copying what others did for no strong reason, but it happened anyways. Got it.
                      Royal Contracts used to be exclusive to the Gentry... until changelings figured out how to claim them as their own. What's more, they're now forging new Royal Contracts, without the intercession of the Gentry. I find it kinda awesome, and in-theme with all the "use the enemy's tools against them" kind of motifs we've seen in how Seemings and Kiths now work.


                      MtAw Homebrew: Even more Legacies, updated to 2E

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                      • #86
                        Originally posted by MCN View Post
                        Its exclusive. That's pretty much the definition of Royal Contracts being made to kept with the intent to the Gentry specifically.
                        It's really not:

                        Originally posted by Rose Bailey View Post
                        In designing new Contracts, you use the power level to determine the origin. If it works with existing resources, the Others would have willingly let their servants have it. If it's more overtly creative (or so transformative as to essentially be creative), it's the kind of thing they would have kept to themselves.

                        (There are exceptions, of course, where Keepers might have added changelings as beneficiaries of Royal Contracts.)
                        "The selfish conquering Lords and Ladies of Faerie would have kept this ability to themselves if not compelled otherwise" is not "This ability can only be learned and used by the Gentry," "This ability can only be used by the character who bargained for it," "This ability can only be gained by characters above a certain threshold of Mantle," "This ability cannot be shared," or any other meaningful extrapolation of the word "exclusive" into this conceptual space.

                        A Royal Contract is a Contract that makes a character capable of things that a Common Contract does not enable, and is accordingly more costly to become a beneficiary of. That's it. That's the whole distinction — it's a major power rather than a moderate power and therefore the egomaniacs who made you fae wouldn't have wanted to share it if they were in the position of the Court Founder who litigated for it in the first place, but nothing about that separation compels the establishment of a more involved barrier to learning it.

                        Long story short, there doesn't seem to be a reason other than just copying what others did for no strong reason, but it happened anyways. Got it.
                        No, long story short, the mythology that builds up around the founder of a Court in relation to the patron of its Contracts is usually about what that individual did or got from the bargain, and does not frame those benefits as being for the sake of empowering a Court. The powers a legendary figure's followers pick up through their association with her come after the powers she gets by becoming a legendary figure who pacts with elements of the universe for hidden opportunities to exploit.

                        Having swindled the North Wind into lending you his coat and hound lends you a stature that anyone who you might wish to empower as an associate does not have in the eyes of that phenomenon, and so it's logically going to take more investment on their part to receive the same gifts than it would to get, say, an ear for who and what has the scorn of the blizzard and the ability to steer the ire of unhappy travelers. Common and Royal Contracts have different thresholds for what they can accomplish and those thresholds are the difference between metalworking and turning straw into gold. A distinction still ought to exist between a character who can shift the manifestations of a force and someone who can generate that force outright — these powers are not equivalent.

                        Regardless of any aspersion you may wish to cast about Court Founders, a Court is a hierarchical structure. "The Courts are just Arcadia in miniature!" has been a common in-universe grumble since First Edition and an inbuilt systemic inequality drives conflict in a way that "The powers of the founding nobility of a Court are no harder to access than those of its common membership, because Courtly power structures are completely level except for whoever is currently Sovereign" does not. It is a distinction worth having even without the need to mechanically distinguish Contracts that are extremely potent and overt from Contracts that are subtle to use and easy to come by.
                        Last edited by Satchel; 09-21-2017, 02:13 AM.


                        Resident Sanguinary Analyst
                        Currently Consuming: Changeling: the Lost 1e

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                        • #87
                          This is probably due to unseen changes in 2 edition rules, but I need to make sure that this isn't just me being out of the loop.
                          True Fae blog post mentions that each Title has Seeming mostly in that it impacts their appearance, determines one Regalia they must have, and lets them benefit from its blessing. The last one doesn't compute, since as far as I checked and understood Seeming blessing only offered free Clarity dots; What possible use could Storyteller/Gentry have from that?

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                          • #88
                            Originally posted by Weird View Post
                            This is probably due to unseen changes in 2 edition rules, but I need to make sure that this isn't just me being out of the loop.
                            True Fae blog post mentions that each Title has Seeming mostly in that it impacts their appearance, determines one Regalia they must have, and lets them benefit from its blessing. The last one doesn't compute, since as far as I checked and understood Seeming blessing only offered free Clarity dots; What possible use could Storyteller/Gentry have from that?
                            Here are the blessing/curse for Darklings, by way of example:

                            Originally posted by Chapter 1: The Fair and the Foul
                            Blessing: Gain an additional dot of one Finesse Attribute at character creation. If you spend a point of Willpower, your character may touch something insubstantial and become part of it for three consecutive turns, transubstantiating into smoke, shadow, a sunbeam — whatever’s handy. This ability costs a point of Glamour if anyone is looking directly at her at the time.

                            Curse: In addition to your character’s other breaking points, she risks Clarity damage with a dice pool equal to half her Wyrd (rounded up) whenever a secret she knows turns out to be false.


                            Rose Bailey
                            Onyx Path Development Producer
                            Cavaliers of Mars Creator | Chronicles of Darkness Lead Developer

                            Retired as forum administrator. Please direct inquiries to the Contact Us link.

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                            • #89
                              Thank you for swift answer! This makes total sense now.

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                              • #90
                                Wait, Clarity damage?

                                Does that mean it heals, and if so, does that mean it's not an Integrity dot scale any more?


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