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Ask a Simple Question, Get a Simple Answer: Changeling Edition

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  • Originally posted by Neos01 View Post
    Does frailty (and cold iron) bypass entirely even mundane (non magical) types of armor?
    I mean, it would seem a bit strange if a changeling transmits his vulnerability to the item he wears
    I don't see any indication in the rules that it would, and can't think of any reason why it should either. So guess not. ^^

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    • Originally posted by Unahim View Post

      I don't see any indication in the rules that it would, and can't think of any reason why it should either. So guess not. ^^
      "Banes cut in-stantly through all forms of armor and protective magics"
      This quote confuses me

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      • Originally posted by Neos01 View Post
        Does frailty (and cold iron) bypass entirely even mundane (non magical) types of armor?
        I mean, it would seem a bit strange if a changeling transmits his vulnerability to the item he wears
        It's a ludonarrative thing.

        While a changeling is wearing a piece of armor, they're an armored changeling, not a changeling and a piece of armor that happens to be on them; the armor isn't having the changeling's vulnerability transmitted to it, the armor is refusing to protect the changeling from iron et al because something about the nature of reality as it relates to changelings (be it the mythic broken vow or some other explanation) allows that thing to harm the changeling per whatever esoteric law of the Wyrd gave them that frailty.


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        Currently Consuming: Hunter: the Vigil 1e

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        • Originally posted by Satchel View Post
          It's a ludonarrative thing.

          While a changeling is wearing a piece of armor, they're an armored changeling, not a changeling and a piece of armor that happens to be on them; the armor isn't having the changeling's vulnerability transmitted to it, the armor is refusing to protect the changeling from iron et al because something about the nature of reality as it relates to changelings (be it the mythic broken vow or some other explanation) allows that thing to harm the changeling per whatever esoteric law of the Wyrd gave them that frailty.
          If it works that way, the armor is simply pierced?
          Or the bane pass throug it as if it was insubstantial?
          And does clothes offer protection from the burning touch of those banes?

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          • Originally posted by Neos01 View Post
            If it works that way, the armor is simply pierced?
            Or the bane pass throug it as if it was insubstantial?
            The distinction is sufficiently small-scale granular that I'm pretty comfortable saying "whatever works for your game/that particular character."
            And does clothes offer protection from the burning touch of those banes?
            It would be very weird for that to be the case.


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            Currently Consuming: Hunter: the Vigil 1e

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            • Originally posted by Satchel View Post
              The distinction is sufficiently small-scale granular that I'm pretty comfortable saying "whatever works for your game/that particular character."
              It would be very weird for that to be the case.
              It s important for me, cause i must decide if changeling can safely handle banes with protective gloves

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              • Originally posted by Neos01 View Post
                It s important for me, cause i must decide if changeling can safely handle banes with protective gloves
                Then that's extra weird, because if regular armor and protective magic don't work then I don't see how other protective equipment would fare any better.

                You have rolls penalized by the presence of a bane, and the universal frailty is generally put forth as a repellant. Picking up wolfsbane with tongs is one thing, but a method of avoiding contact that's visually identical to grasping it barehanded doesn't play to me.


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                Currently Consuming: Hunter: the Vigil 1e

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                • Originally posted by Satchel View Post
                  Then that's extra weird, because if regular armor and protective magic don't work then I don't see how other protective equipment would fare any better.

                  You have rolls penalized by the presence of a bane, and the universal frailty is generally put forth as a repellant. Picking up wolfsbane with tongs is one thing, but a method of avoiding contact that's visually identical to grasping it barehanded doesn't play to me.
                  Ok but protection from damage and protection are two different things.
                  I am careful on this matter, because if leather gloves doesn t protect from cold iron handling then a changeling could not hold an iron sword, the hilt of the blade would at the same way offer no protection from the blade s metal.
                  It seems to me that the book mentions changeling using iron melee weapon, so i m wondering on how much restrictive banes should be

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                  • Originally posted by Neos01 View Post
                    I am careful on this matter, because if leather gloves doesn t protect from cold iron handling then a changeling could not hold an iron sword, the hilt of the blade would at the same way offer no protection from the blade s metal.
                    "The hilt of a cold-iron sword is made of a different metal" reads the same to me as "the haft of a spear whose head is made of cold iron" and thereby hits the same angle as handling the blade with tongs; with gloves you're not handling a thing that's attached to the metal, you're putting hands on the metal with protective gear.

                    Also, it's only cold iron that functions as a bane that deals damage from exposure — just being made of iron only conveys the ability to pierce fae defenses. You don't need extra protection against something that doesn't hurt you by contact alone.


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                    Currently Consuming: Hunter: the Vigil 1e

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                    • Considering that the campaign will be setted in the Arthurian britannia of Dark eras 2 there will be only cold iron, and it would be a major threat, so sorry to everyone if i m trying to figuring out the fine details.
                      On the same way i also need to know if frailty banes like "church bell sound" could be negated by wearing protective gear, like wax earplugs.
                      And, most important, if the penalty of acting against your bane apply on every action targeted at an iron armored knight or a paesant holding an iron knife

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                      • Originally posted by Neos01 View Post
                        On the same way i also need to know if frailty banes like "church bell sound" could be negated by wearing protective gear, like wax earplugs.
                        And, most important, if the penalty of acting against your bane apply on every action targeted at an iron armored knight or a paesant holding an iron knife
                        Fae banes make you get away from the problem as quick as you can. Like the when-in-doubt-iron-wins rule of thumb for fae magic, you are going to be better served treating frailties as the hard weaknesses that they are — changeling banes are levers for your enemies to lean on to put themselves in a position of strength rather than the more manageable drawbacks of e.g. Bound and Forsaken constitutions.

                        The splat incentivizes being hard to pin down for a reason. Assume methods of avoiding problems from your frailties default to "don't trip over them in the first place."


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                        Currently Consuming: Hunter: the Vigil 1e

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                        • Originally posted by Neos01 View Post

                          "Banes cut in-stantly through all forms of armor and protective magics"
                          This quote confuses me
                          I've always read it as "Banes cut instantly through all forms of armour magics and protective magics."
                          I could be wrong in that, though! Just on a language level it is a correct reading, and I've always just assumed they wanted to call out the mechanical effect of gaining armour dots specifically, and then establish that it also applies to anything you might think of as "protective".
                          It also neatly and clearly draws a line in the sand, and avoids all the nitpicking about what level of abstraction, gloves VS hilts, etc... is sufficient 'protection'. :P I'd rather not have to make too many individual rulings on what will work when a valid reading exists that makes it all a lot easier. ^^

                          I personally don't see a fae with a bane of 'grass pollen' being affected by it while walking through a field wearing a hazmat suit, but YMMV!

                          The frailty rules also talk about "exposure" (and "touching" for major ones), while hazmat suits are essentially designed to prevent exposure. It all gets a bit too nitty-gritty for me.

                          Of course, there's also elements of the frailties that apply to proximity to a bane, and those continue to work even while you're in your little hazmat suit, obviously.

                          At the end of the day I'd say both readings are valid, and with the rest of the text not taking a firm stance either way one should just decide what will play best at their particular table in this case. ^^

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                          • Well, both takes on the matter have pros and cons.
                            I m still a little confused about what counts as acting against a source of bane, but probably the system takes inspiration by legend about putting an iron nail in your pocket to obtain protection from fae.
                            Thanks for sharing your opinions

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                            • What If a human falls in love with a changeling and promises to him that "i ll follow you anywhere for the rest of my life", does the Human turns in a fae touched if he follows the changeling into the hedge?

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                              • Originally posted by Neos01 View Post
                                What If a human falls in love with a changeling and promises to him that "i ll follow you anywhere for the rest of my life", does the Human turns in a fae touched if he follows the changeling into the hedge?
                                Becoming fae-touched is contingent upon a mortal keeping a promise they made with a changeling from before they became a changeling.


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                                Currently Consuming: Hunter: the Vigil 1e

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