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  • Originally posted by tasti man LH View Post

    Considering this text is 99% complete, probably not.

    And we aren't exactly in the middle of a blowback on the level of Beast's KS that's prompting mass writing revisions.

    ----------------------------------------------------

    ...which once again prompts me to ask:

    Is this book supposed to have "Create-a-Contract" rules along with "Create-a-Court" and "Create-a-Kith" rules, or is it just the latter two?
    Well, you sort of need "Create-a-Contract" for "Create-a-Court" to work, but I don't know.

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    • Originally posted by E11even-E11even View Post

      I don't either. If they don't get contracts or give-and-take then they're basically halves of courts that will still take a ton of work to use. That would be a lot of space dedicated to unusable content.
      If the game doesn't work because court contracts are so overwhelmingly powerful that not having the option to take them makes non-seasonal courts unusable, then the game is already broken. If you don't like the fact that not every single court is getting custom contracts made, that is totally fine. The suggestion that any other court is totally unsable because they don't have those contracts in the core rulebook and that it is wasted space, however, is disingenuous, panicky, and inflammatory. The key draw of Underhill for me was being able to create custom courts with ease. If I recall correctly, court contracts were never a part of that draft. Give-and-takes are easy to make, wyrdhamster already has made some good suggestions for the Reykjavík freehold. I don't see what renders this chapter so unusable in your or Omega's minds. Frankly, of everything previewed so far, the settings and antagonists have been my favourite part. So again, if you don't like it, that's totally your prerogative. But at the same time, other people are allowed to love it and enjoy it. I for one do, And I've seen plenty of comments in the kick starter and on other forums that would seem to indicate I'm not alone. That means the space isn't wasted.


      CofD booklists:
      Beast I Changeling | Geist l Hunter l Mage | Mummy | Promethean | Vampire

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      • Originally posted by Second Chances View Post

        If the game doesn't work because court contracts are so overwhelmingly powerful that not having the option to take them makes non-seasonal courts unusable, then the game is already broken. If you don't like the fact that not every single court is getting custom contracts made, that is totally fine. The suggestion that any other court is totally unsable because they don't have those contracts in the core rulebook and that it is wasted space, however, is disingenuous, panicky, and inflammatory. The key draw of Underhill for me was being able to create custom courts with ease. If I recall correctly, court contracts were never a part of that draft. Give-and-takes are easy to make, wyrdhamster already has made some good suggestions for the Reykjavík freehold. I don't see what renders this chapter so unusable in your or Omega's minds. Frankly, of everything previewed so far, the settings and antagonists have been my favourite part. So again, if you don't like it, that's totally your prerogative. But at the same time, other people are allowed to love it and enjoy it. I for one do, And I've seen plenty of comments in the kick starter and on other forums that would seem to indicate I'm not alone. That means the space isn't wasted.

        Thank you for the lecture.

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        • Originally posted by E11even-E11even View Post


          Thank you for the lecture.
          Feel free to explain your point of view of why you think they're unusable. I'm genuinely all ears. Why exactly do we have to have custom contracts for every court just because the seasonal ones do? I'm not opposed to having them, I just fail to see how the content breaks down if you don't.

          And yes, if you say no one's going to use the part of the book that I am most excited to use, I think it's fair game to point out that others might have a different opinion than you.


          CofD booklists:
          Beast I Changeling | Geist l Hunter l Mage | Mummy | Promethean | Vampire

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          • Umm... Okay, three problems with the preview:
            1) If you're going to require the Chronicles of Darkness Rulebook for basically all of your antagonist rules... then just say that in the introduction chapter and not waste massive amounts of page count on the "repeating the Chronicles of Darkness Rulebook" chapter.
            2) What are the emotions for these courts and how do they work with Bedlam?
            3) How do the courts which don't "Change Seasons" work with the rules for when hedge-portals close?


            Genius templates (for Demon: the Descent)

            Rakshasa: the Kingdom (Featuring the Extinction Chronicle) [WIP]

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            • Anyways, next stretch goal has been revealed: and sure enough, to match the KS new "turn of the season", at $117k, the Spring novella will get made.

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              • Originally posted by Second Chances View Post

                If the game doesn't work because court contracts are so overwhelmingly powerful that not having the option to take them makes non-seasonal courts unusable, then the game is already broken. If you don't like the fact that not every single court is getting custom contracts made, that is totally fine. The suggestion that any other court is totally unsable because they don't have those contracts in the core rulebook and that it is wasted space, however, is disingenuous, panicky, and inflammatory. The key draw of Underhill for me was being able to create custom courts with ease. If I recall correctly, court contracts were never a part of that draft. Give-and-takes are easy to make, wyrdhamster already has made some good suggestions for the Reykjavík freehold. I don't see what renders this chapter so unusable in your or Omega's minds. Frankly, of everything previewed so far, the settings and antagonists have been my favourite part. So again, if you don't like it, that's totally your prerogative. But at the same time, other people are allowed to love it and enjoy it. I for one do, And I've seen plenty of comments in the kick starter and on other forums that would seem to indicate I'm not alone. That means the space isn't wasted.
                Building on this:

                Writers have word counts to work with, and often getting across the conceptual space players will be gaming/imagining in takes the precedence. It's more important, for instance, that you comprehend that, in my project's case, the interplay between societal expectations and interpersonal relationships and the cynicism and low-key hopes and how that shapes you between these things for Paris than it was to give out a contract that embodies Black Rose's bond to Severance. With a well stocked game much as Changeling Second is, it's often enough to offer appropos Contracts at a discount. This was a couple of people's attitude.

                I'll admit, I'm wrapping up Chapter 4 still, so I can't comment on the setting subject, but the simple fact of the matter is that if you are looking for something present in Underhill that's absent here....you'll be disappointed, because Underhill operated much the same way, even down to Seasonal Courts still having more contracts.

                In the mean time, while there are points I have quibbles about, the simple and honest fact of the matter for me as this goes is that this version is just simply better-better written and more fully realized. Each entry makes me wish more and more that Rose would notice that I e-mailed her about wanting to write for Changeling Second, because I'm falling in love with Changeling all over again.*

                *And also I resolved my investigations.


                Sean K.I.W. Steele, Freelance Writer
                Work Blog Coming Soon
                The world is not beautiful, therefore it is.-Keiichi Sigsawa, Kino's Journey

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                • Originally posted by ArcaneArts View Post
                  Each entry makes me wish more and more that Rose would notice that I e-mailed her about wanting to write for Changeling Second, because I'm falling in love with Changeling all over again.
                  I fully support this endeavour, especially if it means Paris can get snuck back into the Companion along with Toronto (Inshallah). But Paris Courts or not, having you back on Changeling would be awesome Arc!


                  CofD booklists:
                  Beast I Changeling | Geist l Hunter l Mage | Mummy | Promethean | Vampire

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                  • Originally posted by Second Chances View Post
                    I fully support this endeavour, especially if it means Paris can get snuck back into the Companion along with Toronto (Inshallah). But Paris Courts or not, having you back on Changeling would be awesome Arc!
                    Eh. I wouldn't be surprised(nor blame anyone) if my little stunt cost me work with OP for a while.

                    Either way, it does mean you are going to see more of the Changeling Guy when he's not occupied by work or alcohol/cooking focused weekends.


                    Sean K.I.W. Steele, Freelance Writer
                    Work Blog Coming Soon
                    The world is not beautiful, therefore it is.-Keiichi Sigsawa, Kino's Journey

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                    • We've got enough Courts that need expansion (Contracs, Give & Take, Harvest & Bedlam Emotion, etc) or rules update to support a whole supplement...

                      - Society of Morning
                      - Society of Day
                      - Society of Night

                      - Court of the Azure Serpent
                      - Court of the Black Tortoise
                      - Court of the White Tiger
                      - Court of the Vermillion Bird
                      - Court of the Yellow Dragon

                      - Court of Coins
                      - Court of Barter
                      - Court of Favors
                      - Court of Shady Deals

                      - High Tide
                      - Ebb Tide
                      - Low Tide
                      - Flood Tide

                      - Sun Court
                      - Moon Court

                      - Court of Blood
                      - Court of Snow
                      - Court of Ash

                      - Court of Science
                      - Court of Art

                      - Dawn Court
                      - Dusk Court


                      I'd throw in for good measure a Court system founded by Scheherazade herself after her Durance of 1001 nights (in Arcadia)...

                      Court al-sabt
                      Court al-ahad
                      Court al-ithnayam
                      Court al-thalatha
                      Court al-arba'a
                      Court al-khamis
                      Court al-jumu'ah


                      Check out my expansion to the Realm of Brass and Shadow

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                      • I hope to see proper Courts write-ups from Hong Kong, Reykjavík, New England and New Orlean in the CtL 2E Companion. Other way - they are slightly unusable as they are now, without specific Contracts and Give & Take sections.


                        Conquest of Paradise - Fan Dark Era about Portugal and Spain conquests in XVI century - Mage & Beast ( & Hunter )
                        My Hubs - VtR 2E System Hacks, MtAw 2E Legacies and System Hacks & WtF 2E Lodges and System Hacks

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                        • Originally posted by milo v3 View Post
                          Umm... Okay, three problems with the preview:
                          1) If you're going to require the Chronicles of Darkness Rulebook for basically all of your antagonist rules... then just say that in the introduction chapter and not waste massive amounts of page count on the "repeating the Chronicles of Darkness Rulebook" chapter.
                          Yeah, the fact they keep reproducing those chapters in their rulebooks baffles me-they never did it in NWoD, why are they doing it now?

                          As for the new courts, while I think inluding emotions for them would be very useful, I think creating contracts is a fair thing to leave to the GM, especially when there are so many alternate courts to cater to-though again, if they stopped reproducing those antagonist rules there would be plenty of space. As for the give and take, I wouldn't be surprised if leaving those out was a conscious choice, since that's the sort of thing that really defines a court and freehold more than almost anything else, and I for one like the idea of crafting my own unique ones to really make my mark.

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                          • Originally posted by Lady Gray View Post
                            Yeah, the fact they keep reproducing those chapters in their rulebooks baffles me-they never did it in NWoD, why are they doing it now?
                            The intent originally was so that the game is fully playable with just the gameline's book. Unfortunately this book requires Core for some of it's content.


                            Genius templates (for Demon: the Descent)

                            Rakshasa: the Kingdom (Featuring the Extinction Chronicle) [WIP]

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                            • Errata-

                              Whispers of Morning (the contract) calls out hedge ghosts as being in Twilight. The hedge ghost section talks about the hedge not having a "state of twilight" but that ghosts are just incorporeal. I get that the intent is that hedge ghosts are something like the strix, who are intangible shadows, but still. The contract probably needs to be updated or something, since its pretty contradictory here. Or that it can't be used in the hedge, or something.
                              Last edited by MCN; 11-29-2017, 07:34 AM.

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                              • Originally posted by milo v3 View Post
                                Umm... Okay, three problems with the preview:
                                1) If you're going to require the Chronicles of Darkness Rulebook for basically all of your antagonist rules... then just say that in the introduction chapter and not waste massive amounts of page count on the "repeating the Chronicles of Darkness Rulebook" chapter.
                                They don't. The Horror mechanics are reproduced in abbreviated form in the Hobgoblins section and all of the mechanics for Hedge ghosts are self-contained.

                                Originally posted by MCN View Post
                                Errata-

                                Whispers of Morning (the contract) calls out hedge ghosts as being in Twilight.
                                "She exists on a different frequency than creatures in Twilight" doesn't seem to actually entail Hedge ghosts being in Twilight and the Dematerialize Numen has the same effect on Hedge ghosts in the Hedge as what happens to them when they leave it.
                                Last edited by Satchel; 11-29-2017, 10:32 AM.


                                Resident Sanguinary Analyst
                                Currently Consuming: Changeling: the Lost 1e

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