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  • so Grimm were left out and seeming are just like 1st edition but now hangs more on how a changeling escaped Arcadia, thanks guys, much appreciated!

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    • Originally posted by Primordial newcomer View Post
      so Grimm were left out and seeming are just like 1st edition but now hangs more on how a changeling escaped Arcadia, thanks guys, much appreciated!
      I feel like this needs some clarity to give context to the answers.

      Grimm wasn't exactly left out, but instead it's just another name for Beasts (rather than its own Seeming).

      And Seeming doesn't really hang on a "thing" precisely. Think of each of the 2nd Seemings as a "Story Archetype". A character is a Beast because they fit the mold of that Story Archetype. It's a very broad term and because of that, the "why" a character is that Seeming is totally variable. A character is Fairest because that's her Story. Why is it her Story? Well it could be because her Keeper made her Fairest, or because she needed to be Fairest to survive/escape, or She's Fairest because that kind of story is how she copes now that she's left Arcadia. The origin of gaining the Seeming has less of a role than the fact that that's the story you fit into.



      Frequent Story Teller for the Circle of Five gaming group.

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      • Originally posted by xiongrey View Post

        Grimm wasn't exactly left out, but instead it's just another name for Beasts (rather than its own Seeming).
        I would disagree. The Grims and Grimms are two very different Seemings.


        Freelancer (He/His Pronouns): CofD - Dark Eras 2, Kith and Kin, Mummy 2e, Oak Ash and Thorn; Scion - Mysteries of the World

        CofD booklists: Beast I Changeling | Demon | Deviant (TBA) | Geist l Hunter l Mage | Mummy | Promethean | Vampire | Werewolf (WIP)

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        • "Grim" is a casual nickname for the Beast seeming, as in church grim. The Grimm seeming (as in Brothers Grimm) wasn't "left out," it exists in Dark Eras as an era-specific seeming relevant to that time and place, just like many of the other character options you find in Dark Eras. If you'd like to update the mechanics and use it at your table in a modern game, feel free; but note that the Wyrd doesn't work on narrative logic anymore in 2e, so you probably won't see canonical support for doing so.


          Meghan Fitzgerald | Onyx Path freelance writer & developer
          Changeling: The Lost 2e developer

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          • Originally posted by Meghan Fitzgerald View Post
            [...]but note that the Wyrd doesn't work on narrative logic anymore in 2e, so you probably won't see canonical support for doing so.
            Newcomer to Changeling here - can you explain what you mean by this? How did it used to work / how does it work now... and what, if anything, does this mean for 1e Fluff conversions?

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            • Originally posted by Anachronistic Jam View Post
              Newcomer to Changeling here - can you explain what you mean by this? How did it used to work / how does it work now... and what, if anything, does this mean for 1e Fluff conversions?
              It doesn't honestly mean a whole lot — 1e split the difference between "faerie magic works on principles of equal-if-sometimes-unusual exchange" and "faerie magic enforces the patterns of fairy tales as an in-universe end unto itself in a way that tends to produce describable narrative."

              The Underhill version of the game chose to focus on the latter, whereas the published version angles more distinctly toward the former for the understandable reason that, among other things, there's not really much need for there to be a force making things work like myth/legend/folklore in-universe when the universe is already set up for that to be the way things tend to work.

              For the non-mechanical aspects of 1e conversions, it pretty much only means that stuff like Talecrafting isn't baked into the way the universe works — changelings don't have magic powers because there's a story archetype that they were made to fill that gives them magic powers, they have magic powers because they were the somewhat-favored servants of beings who negotiated magic powers for themselves and their households. It's a legal-political-economic framework rather than an abstract narrative framework.


              Resident Lore-Hound
              Currently Consuming: Hunter: the Vigil 1e

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              • That said, the Hedge (being shaped by people's beliefs and stories) does have a lot of narrative aspects to it. So if you do want to update the Grimms to 2e at your table, you could build off that without contradicting anything in the corebook.

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                • Stretch goals are getting closer! Oak, Ash, & Thorn is off to Manuscript Approvals!


                  Freelancer (He/His Pronouns): CofD - Dark Eras 2, Kith and Kin, Mummy 2e, Oak Ash and Thorn; Scion - Mysteries of the World

                  CofD booklists: Beast I Changeling | Demon | Deviant (TBA) | Geist l Hunter l Mage | Mummy | Promethean | Vampire | Werewolf (WIP)

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                  • Originally posted by Second Chances View Post
                    Stretch goals are getting closer! Oak, Ash, & Thorn is off to Manuscript Approvals!
                    Yeah it was stuck in Development for a long time. I still don't get what they do in development stage, I get what every other stage is except Development and post editing development.

                    Hopefully the rest won't take too long.

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                    • Originally posted by Omegaphallic View Post

                      Yeah it was stuck in Development for a long time. I still don't get what they do in development stage, I get what every other stage is except Development and post editing development.

                      Hopefully the rest won't take too long.
                      They’re creating content that isn’t a rehash of 1e nor so divorced from its roots it’s not Changeling anymore. They’re creating the mechanics, the fluff, the lore and in general trying to make things open ended that people can use it without it being so singular that people can’t do new stuff with it. Development isn’t easy, and I’d prefer that it goes slower so they can do a more thorough job than blitzing through and making a really bad module that kills peoples’ interests in future works. I do agree with the sentiment of being happy that it is moving along though.

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                      • I think it helps to focus on development stages as the part of the process where everything comes together. It's the stages where all the different parts of the book are brought together into a cohesive whole.

                        The first development stage is the most important, because it's taking all the parts that the different authors have been working on, and turning them into a single manuscript that's one book instead of a bunch of parts of a book. The writing gets firmed up into one authorial voice. Mechanics are checked to keep them in-line with the rest of the game. Etc.

                        The post-editing development is working in all the feedback from manuscript approval, content and copy editing, and so on to turn the manuscript into the final text. Again, it's the process of taking a bunch of little parts, and building the full book out of them.

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                        • Originally posted by Heavy Arms View Post
                          I think it helps to focus on development stages as the part of the process where everything comes together. It's the stages where all the different parts of the book are brought together into a cohesive whole.

                          The first development stage is the most important, because it's taking all the parts that the different authors have been working on, and turning them into a single manuscript that's one book instead of a bunch of parts of a book. The writing gets firmed up into one authorial voice. Mechanics are checked to keep them in-line with the rest of the game. Etc.

                          The post-editing development is working in all the feedback from manuscript approval, content and copy editing, and so on to turn the manuscript into the final text. Again, it's the process of taking a bunch of little parts, and building the full book out of them.
                          Thank you, so development is where they take the written parts, make sure they fit together, and make a whole out of them. Now I feel like I understand thank you.

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