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Flexible magic system for changelings?

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  • Overlord62
    started a topic Flexible magic system for changelings?

    Flexible magic system for changelings?

    I love Changeling: The Lost but I was always a little disappointed that there wasn’t a more flexible magic system. In Dark ages: Fae there was unleashing, which I thought was pretty cool and there are a few homebrew systems but they never really clicked with me. Do you guys have any ideas for this?
    Last edited by Overlord62; 02-02-2018, 09:46 AM.

  • Hedgebound Heart
    replied
    So, I just had a random thought... perhaps Goblin Vow could be reworked into a flat two-dot merit that has a single, specific purview. This merit can be purchased multiple times, but each purview must be unique. To use this merit, the changeling spends a point of Willpower in the presence of some representation of the purview to invoke an appropriately themed Goblin Contract(with the normal Glamour cost and dice pool). After this merit is traded for a contract, it disappears and the changeling now possesses the goblin contract that was used, with all of the usual benefits and drawbacks(while also satisfying Sanctity of Merits). I thought this would allow another option for greater flexibility, while staying mostly within the existing rules of the Second Edition Preview. Besides, I really like the idea of an Autumn Court sorcerer who carries around a seemingly random assortment of purview knickknacks and is always on the lookout to trade old contracts for new Goblin Vows.

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  • Master Aquatosic
    replied
    It has been mentioned

    Originally posted by Overlord62 View Post
    then there’s wyrd-binding and I like the concept for it but it never really resonated with me.

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  • Raistlin
    replied
    Does anyone remember Wyrd Binding, the fan system of NeoTiamat for the previous Changeling the Lost?

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  • Hedgebound Heart
    replied
    Hmm... I really enjoyed Goblin Vows, so hopefully they will be included at some point. I guess the David Hill version could be house ruled in the meantime. I have played around with kind of a "quick and dirty" version of Goblin Vows where the changeling doesn't need to worry about endeavors or sanctions and simply gives up dots of one Attribute, Skill, Merit, or Contract for a scene in order to get the same number of dots in a different one from the Goblin Vow's purview. Not only did the benefit gained need to be thematically appropriate for the purview, but it also needed to be the same type as what was given up(trading skills for skills or contracts for contracts, but no trading skills for contracts). The drawback was that in addition to gaining the benefit, the changeling also acquires a thematic frailty, condition, or tilt for the scene. It wasn't very elegant, but it worked in a pinch.

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  • milo v3
    replied
    Originally posted by Hedgebound Heart View Post
    What is the 2E status of the Goblin Vow merit? Does anyone know if it will be included in one of the companions?
    There has been no official mention of it. It just was removed from Core and there hasn't been any dev comment on it's lack of appearance.

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  • Hedgebound Heart
    replied
    What is the 2E status of the Goblin Vow merit? Does anyone know if it will be included in one of the companions?

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  • wyrdhamster
    replied
    I would really like to see David's 2E Goblin Contracts-like system to use for 'Sorcerers', like Autumn Courtiers- I seen that milo v3 had some good ideas. Maybe you can expand it?

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  • Master Aquatosic
    replied
    Sounds like it would be more situational though. You have to have enough thorny hedges, barbed wire fences, broken glass forests, sharp-leaved vines, etc to really get the feeling of the Hedge I'd say. But that could also encourage Earthbound Fae to create little Hedge-like sanctuaries for themselves deep in forgotten places, which is nicely thematic.

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  • Mad_Maudlin
    replied
    Originally posted by Hsienfan View Post

    ...If a changeling alters an environment in the mortal world to resemble the local Hedge, then with a boost of glamour they can take advantage of that closeness and engage in Hedgespinning as if they had crossed the border. The inherent risk would be that they're essentially making pieces of the Hedge and the mortal world overlap, with all of the potential problems one might imagine coming from that.
    That sounds a lot like a Beast's ability to impose its Lair Traits on the waking world. It would be an interesting system to mess around with.

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  • Hsienfan
    replied
    Originally posted by Overlord62 View Post
    I love Changeling: The Lost but I was always a little disappointed that there wasn’t a more flexible magic system. In Dark ages: Fae there was unleashing, which I thought was pretty cool and there are a few homebrew systems but they never really clicked with me. Do you guys have any ideas for this?
    This is also something I've mulled over. I'm just not a fan of powersets made up of multiple small tricks, but something that just imitates the Arcana or Unleashing doesn't seem like it would fit.

    I think what I would do is expand the power and risk of Hedgespinning, which I might call "Inviting the Hedge":

    If a changeling alters an environment in the mortal world to resemble the local Hedge, then with a boost of glamour they can take advantage of that closeness and engage in Hedgespinning as if they had crossed the border. The inherent risk would be that they're essentially making pieces of the Hedge and the mortal world overlap, with all of the potential problems one might imagine coming from that.

    The less-extreme system hack: Inviting the Hedge is just a feature bolted onto Hedgespinning, and using it accrues Goblin Debt like a Goblin Contract. The rest of Changeling's systems remain intact.

    The more extreme system hack: Hedgespinning (including Inviting the Hedge) becomes the main magic system. Contracts, instead of individual tricks, become traits rated 1-5 like in 1st edition, and they add to your dice pool when spinning effects in-theme. Trying to Invite the Hedge without the appropriate Contract, or failure on a roll, accrues Goblin Debt.

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  • Vent0
    replied
    Originally posted by Errol216 View Post
    Honestly... ignoring line themes (none of the splats are really "chaotic&quot, you could do worse than copying and pasting the 2e Awakening system. Throw away all the Practices and Arcana and come up with your own. Dawn, Day, Dusk, Night work fine as the latter (though having not seen DA:F, I don't really have a sense of what kinds of effects you're looking for and I'd expect you'd want more specific purviews), and you need a minimum of five Practices for the five dots in CofD's system. Most easily, the cantrip-like effects at the first dot, and "unleashing" at the fifth dot, and then span the distance. Use the same rough system for Paradox to get a sense of how badly things go wrong. Hard to name it when I don't have a sense for what you'd expect to happen when things go sideways. But instead of Reach, I'd suggest using Ante. You get none for free, ever, and when you want to push at what's possible, you up the Ante, dropping a bigger bet into the pot and hoping you don't muck out.
    Another model is Influences (as used by Spirits, Ghosts, etc.). You could even flavor it as the Changeling temporarily "borrowing" the use of it, or directly beseeching the facet of reality in question. Obviously the exact effect is up to the facet (read: Storyteller), so final results may vary.

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  • Errol216
    replied
    Honestly... ignoring line themes (none of the splats are really "chaotic"), you could do worse than copying and pasting the 2e Awakening system. Throw away all the Practices and Arcana and come up with your own. Dawn, Day, Dusk, Night work fine as the latter (though having not seen DA:F, I don't really have a sense of what kinds of effects you're looking for and I'd expect you'd want more specific purviews), and you need a minimum of five Practices for the five dots in CofD's system. Most easily, the cantrip-like effects at the first dot, and "unleashing" at the fifth dot, and then span the distance. Use the same rough system for Paradox to get a sense of how badly things go wrong. Hard to name it when I don't have a sense for what you'd expect to happen when things go sideways. But instead of Reach, I'd suggest using Ante. You get none for free, ever, and when you want to push at what's possible, you up the Ante, dropping a bigger bet into the pot and hoping you don't muck out.

    Leave a comment:


  • milo v3
    replied
    Originally posted by Master Aquatosic View Post

    Sounds good to me. Expand it to various Contract-like effects (as in focus on tricksiness rather than direct power) and it would be perfect, though now that contracts are no longer dot-rated, you'd have to figure out how to balance which level of favors get which contracts.
    Since Common Contracts are worth two or three dots of the old system, and Royal Contracts are worth 4 or 5. I'd have it so Minor Favour can get you a unique seeming bonus to modify a Common Contract you have, as a Medial Favour you can do the same for a Royal Contract, and as a Major Favour you can gain a Common Contract.

    Originally posted by Overlord62 View Post
    You know, while we’re on the subject of changeling magic, I had this idea for two new merits called Hedge-speak and Wyrd-script. They would basically function like Mage’s runes and high speach and provide bonuses to contracts like making them more powerful or something.
    That sort of thing is more handled by the loophole mechanic rather than bonuses.
    Last edited by milo v3; 02-03-2018, 02:06 AM.

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  • Master Aquatosic
    replied
    Think of it this way. Mages are scholarly imperious high magic, Vampires are horrific blood magic, Werewolves are brutal animist magic, Beasts are primal fear magic, Demons are reality-bending technomagic; Sin-eaters are ghostly magic and hollywood-style syncretic rituals and Fae are tricksy folk magic

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