What if a fetch gets killed?

[charley2020]

I am running a vampire chronicle where one of my players character wants to kill a person she knew from her past. He was abusing her in the childhood and now she found out where he lives. As she is now a vampire she wants him dead. I decided that this person was kidnapped by a true fae and exchanged the "bad guy" with a fetch. The Changeling is still in Arcadia and could not escape by now. So far the backstory.

So. What will happen if she attacks the fetch? Will he defend in some supernatural way? What would she see if she kills him? Would the fae create another fetch? Any Ideas are welcome.

Though this is a crossover setting for me, it would be interesting what would happen is a fetch dies by some mundane things that may happen.

[Falcon777]

Fetches dying before the changeling makes it back ironside isn't an uncommon thing. And while as far as I know nothing stops a Fae from making another fetch, my understanding is that it's so unlikely to happen that it might as well be unheard of.

As to what fetches are capable of and what kind of ideas someone might have, I'd honestly recommend reading the Fetch portion of the book. There is quite a bit there that can be used, and if the game is truly crossover then you'd want to read it anyways. You're looking at pages 233-239 (not that much, really).

[Neos01]

If i remember it correctly fetch powers and memories activate only when the changeling returns

[Falcon777]

Not quite. Rather, fetches have magic called echoes. Some of these echoes only work in the presence of changelings, and some of them only work on the changeling they are impersonating.

[Heavy Arms]

I decided that this person was kidnapped by a true fae and exchanged the "bad guy" with a fetch. The Changeling is still in Arcadia and could not escape by now.

I think it's worth considering this carefully unless the vampire's player is completely on board with this. If the vampire getting revenge is a major plot point for the character, this is a pretty big middle finger to it. Killing the Fetch is going to obviously not be killing the original, and the original is now locked away safely in a realm the vampire has no hope of getting to; with their target's return to the vampire's "range" completely dependent on your say-so.

What are the goals here? Because their might be better options.

What will happen if she attacks the fetch?

It will react however it can? Fetches have a pretty wide range of possibilities. Some think they're the original, don't consciously use Echoes, and would react as the original would if they'd stayed a normal person. Some basically know what they are and are enjoying the game and might react by telling the vampire the truth just to rub salt in the emotional wounds.

Will he defend in some supernatural way?

Fetches of Lost still in Arcadia basically don't have any significant Echoes yet. A Fetch's power is based on Wyrd, like a changeling, but their rating is equal to their linked changeling. So at this point, their Wyrd is just 1. This means they only have access to the most basic and rudimentary powers Fetches can get. So, no, they're not going to be doing anything significantly supernatural here.

What would she see if she kills him?

Whatever the Fetch's body was originally made from. The Gentry can't "create." They can modify and empower. To make a Fetch they gather up a bunch of physical stuff that's around when they take their newest victim, imbue it with Fae energy and a metaphysical piece of the soon to be Lost, and thus a Fetch comes out of the mix.

It's suggested that what the Fetch is made of should influence the Fetch's approach and personality. Fetches made from objects of deep personal connection to the original are more likely to not even think of themselves as anything but, and be ill adapted to the reality of what they are, while one made of random junk in a back alley is more likely to be mentally disjointed and far more unsure of what reality is, etc.

So work backwards from how you want the Fetch to be, to what sort of items would resonate with that, and a pile of those items would be what the vampire sees after the Fetch dies and the magic holding it all together fades.

Would the fae create another fetch?

As noted, generally they don't. Far more never even make a Fetch in the first place. Depending on the state of the original in Arcadia, it might not actually be possible to make a Fetch because they're already twisted too far to copy into a convincing fake.

[charley2020]

Thank you for the hints and ideas. I got myself the pdf from drivethru and will read it. My players all really enjoy playing tragic stories and don´t have to "win". So they can handle a bit of frustration.

The tragic in this case is, that the man that abused the vampire character when she was younger is now in the hand of a fae. Probably he suffer even worse. I think the story might get really tense if she realize that she can´t take revenge, even if she kills the fetch. Maybe the story gets really interesting if the changeling escapes arcadia.

What would make the better Story?
Is he even more cruel and torn apart while he was suffering under the whims of his Keeper?
Or did he change in a positive way. Maybe he is looking for forgiveness and try to prove that he is a better person.

I think both would work. In fact that is really a nice crossover scene.

[Heavy Arms]

My concern wasn't that they need to win as much as the player might have some strong ideas about how the revenge arc is supposed to spin into all sorts of dramatic character developments (plenty can be bad, esp. for a vampire), and frustration in the sense of things not going according to plan isn't the same as frustration because the ST decided you can't finish this until they say it's time to get back to it.

I would also be careful with the whole... "well he's worse off in Arcadia" thing. Besides the fact that this is in no way a guarantee (an abusive person might find the nature of Arcadia and the powers granted to them quite enjoyable even if they sacrifice their own agency for it; Loyalists are a thing), it can also get into some emotionally dubious places for the players rather than the characters. On top of all that, it's also completely off-screen. There's no emotional beats for the vampire because all she gets is a mystery of why trying to kill her abuser ends up with a pile of stuff and no sign of her target. That he might be suffering far worse than she'd make him suffer is lost because she has no way of knowing what's happening to him.

Something I would consider, esp. if one of the goals is to run a crossover game and bringing the characters from different games together is going to happen:

What if he's already back? Instead of her killing the Fetch, she's getting ready to kill the Fetch and he beats her too it. Keeping in mind that the Losts' Masks don't always look like their original selves to account for covering up the changes that happened to them. She could witness someone that looks like a cousin or whatever of her abuser beat her to the punch, then see that the body was... not a real person. Now there's a lead in a mystery to draw her into the world of the Lost. She might even think he's a fellow victim, setting up a stronger reveal later of who he really is.

As for what sort of changes happened, I would base that on how any Lost PCs are meant to interact with him. If he's intended to be an antagonist to them, having him be a Loyalist or Privateer that's grown worse under his Keeper lets him be an enemy that the vampire and the changelings will want to team up against. If you want more tension between vampire and changelings, the reformation path means that Lost society is generally going to protect him over turning him over.

[Eldagusto]

I am running a vampire chronicle where one of my players character wants to kill a person she knew from her past. He was abusing her in the childhood and now she found out where he lives. As she is now a vampire she wants him dead. I decided that this person was kidnapped by a true fae and exchanged the "bad guy" with a fetch. The Changeling is still in Arcadia and could not escape by now. So far the backstory.

So. What will happen if she attacks the fetch? Will he defend in some supernatural way? What would she see if she kills him? Would the fae create another fetch? Any Ideas are welcome.

Though this is a crossover setting for me, it would be interesting what would happen is a fetch dies by some mundane things that may happen.

I'm curious does the Fetch's blood work like normal?

But I would say the Gentry are a cast and forget type of folk, so if the Fetch Dies then it dies, and if the Changeling ever returns to Earth, not a guarantee unless that is the secret plan for the Gentry, then they find they never disappeared when they were nabbed, no they disappeared at some later date. Don't just keep replacing the Fetch, they needed a fragment of the Mortals unaltered soul to make anyways.

[HelmsDerp]

I believe there was a bit in first edition about Fetch blood tasting hollow, giving reduced vitae and causing unpleasant dreams. Second edition doesn't say anything about it as far as I know.

[Tessie]

Second edition of Vampire doesn't include anything about extra/changed effects from drinking non-human blood. By RAW, every human-like being that has blood will grant Vitae as if they were human. Being further removed from humanity only means resistance to the Kiss/Assault Conditions. If something is too non-human (like ephemeral entities) they instead doesn't grant any Vitae, iirc.
The only thing I've seen about any extra effects was Dave (lead dev for mage and involved with most other CofD games) writing that vampires drinking mage Vitae would hallucinate Mage Sight (but have no ability to actually understand it). They'd still get Vitae as from a human.

It's up to the ST. You could run with the 1e half Vitae thing, have them give Vitae like a human (like other humanoid monsters), have them give no Vitae at all (the blood is only part of the Mask and isn't real), or come up with something else.

I'm personally leaning towards not giving any Vitae at all, unless the ST wants to reinforce the theme of fetches being alive and people in their own right.
Half Vitae just feels weird to me, tbh.

[Nyrufa]

So. What will happen if she attacks the fetch? Will he defend in some supernatural way? What would she see if she kills him? Would the fae create another fetch? Any Ideas are welcome.

Though this is a crossover setting for me, it would be interesting what would happen is a fetch dies by some mundane things that may happen.

As I understand it, the Fetch is under the delusion that they actually are the person they're replacing. So as far as it's aware, they're just a normal mortal. So no supernatural defenses, if they're even capable of such things.

And when they die, they just dissolve into a pile of whatever refuse was used in their creation. Your vampire would probably be confused as all hell, unless she has some kind of knowledge about Fetches.

[elzopilote]

Set the vampire against the loyalist abuser Changeling instead.

[Horodrigo]

So, I was just reading the Fetch session and realized the following:

Nothing stops other supernatural splats from detecting Fetches now. Auspex and Mage Sight probably uncover a great deal of information on crossover chronicles now.