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  • Most powerful contract?

    What would guys say is the most powerful contract? Is it Riddle Kith? Discreete Summons? Stealing the Mirror's reflection? Dance of the Toys? Something Else?

  • #2
    None. Contracts are circumstantial and niche by design, where none would be useful for every situation, so there is no one contract you could call the "most powerful" without specifying a circumstance it is being used in.

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    • #3
      Originally posted by Taidragon View Post
      None. Contracts are circumstantial and niche by design, where none would be useful for every situation, so there is no one contract you could call the "most powerful" without specifying a circumstance it is being used in.
      That being said, I think from an objective standpoint it's Own Regalia, provided you can get past the prerequisites.


      Resident Lore-Hound
      Currently Consuming: Hunter: the Vigil 1e

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      • #4
        Originally posted by Satchel View Post
        That being said, I think from an objective standpoint it's Own Regalia, provided you can get past the prerequisites.

        Where is that from? I can't find it in the Changeling the Lost 2e book.

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        • #5
          Originally posted by RBAWintrow View Post
          Where is that from? I can't find it in the Changeling the Lost 2e book.
          It's a joke about the Fae.


          Resident Lore-Hound
          Currently Consuming: Hunter: the Vigil 1e

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          • #6
            Originally posted by RBAWintrow View Post


            Where is that from? I can't find it in the Changeling the Lost 2e book.

            I think he's referencing the fact that Gentry have access to every single Contract in the Regalia associated with their current Title, so long as they hold ownership over a physical (though not always solid) manifestation of the ancient Pledges that gave them access to that Regalia.

            And I'm not sure, but I think that if a Changeling manages to wheel and deal their way into usurping control of those Pledges and becomes the Wyrd-recognized owner of that "Regalia", you too get the same spread of Contracts.


            A god is just a monster you kneel to. - ArcaneArts, Quoting "Fall of Gods"

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            • #7
              I would probably vote Hidden Reality, for being useful in almost every situation if you are creative enough. There are other contracts that do amazing things, but Hidden Reality is the cat’s pajamas.

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              • #8
                Sorry, but this thread reminds me of those games people would play in middle school where they would compare superheros from Marvel and DC and ask who would win. It's not a really useful question. The world is more complex than "which one is the most powerful?". You have to ask yourself what your intention is with using any given contract. Is it to kill someone? Hide from someone? Create something out of nothing? Make someone feel a particular emotion? Find something that is hidden? Flee from a raging enemy?

                The magic available via contracts is fairly widespread to the point that a character could be called a sorcerer (or even a wizard) for all the magic they would know if they invest a large amount of xp in contracts. If you need to hide from someone but decide to use an elemental contract to just kill them then the consequences are going to be drastically different (which isn't necessarily a bad thing. It just means the story is a different one). Is the elemental contract more powerful? It certainly gives you another option of how to deal with a given issue, but it doesn't help you to hide when that elemental contract isn't capable of destroying something/someone. Which contract is more powerful then?

                Do you see what I mean? A much more useful set of questions when asking about the strength of a given contract is to ask yourself what you are trying to accomplish as a character and as a player. If you want more drama in the story as a player then sometimes being subtle isn't going to help. However, if you've made the character to be someone that would want to hide from a given problem then subtlety can be a great tool. And these two questions (what do I want as a player, what do I want as a character) obviously don't just have to be about subtlety and drama. They can be asked about ANY situation. That then allows you to feel powerful no matter what contract your character is calling upon.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Falcon777 View Post
                  Sorry, but this thread reminds me of those games people would play in middle school where they would compare superheros from Marvel and DC and ask who would win. It's not a really useful question. The world is more complex than "which one is the most powerful?". You have to ask yourself what your intention is with using any given contract. Is it to kill someone? Hide from someone? Create something out of nothing? Make someone feel a particular emotion? Find something that is hidden? Flee from a raging enemy?

                  The magic available via contracts is fairly widespread to the point that a character could be called a sorcerer (or even a wizard) for all the magic they would know if they invest a large amount of xp in contracts. If you need to hide from someone but decide to use an elemental contract to just kill them then the consequences are going to be drastically different (which isn't necessarily a bad thing. It just means the story is a different one). Is the elemental contract more powerful? It certainly gives you another option of how to deal with a given issue, but it doesn't help you to hide when that elemental contract isn't capable of destroying something/someone. Which contract is more powerful then?

                  Do you see what I mean? A much more useful set of questions when asking about the strength of a given contract is to ask yourself what you are trying to accomplish as a character and as a player. If you want more drama in the story as a player then sometimes being subtle isn't going to help. However, if you've made the character to be someone that would want to hide from a given problem then subtlety can be a great tool. And these two questions (what do I want as a player, what do I want as a character) obviously don't just have to be about subtlety and drama. They can be asked about ANY situation. That then allows you to feel powerful no matter what contract your character is calling upon.
                  I'd say I'm smashing the like button but on mobile it only works some of the time.


                  “As democracy is perfected, the office of president represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron.”

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Falcon777 View Post
                    Sorry, but this thread reminds me of those games people would play in middle school where they would compare superheros from Marvel and DC and ask who would win. It's not a really useful question. The world is more complex than "which one is the most powerful?". You have to ask yourself what your intention is with using any given contract. Is it to kill someone? Hide from someone? Create something out of nothing? Make someone feel a particular emotion? Find something that is hidden? Flee from a raging enemy?

                    The magic available via contracts is fairly widespread to the point that a character could be called a sorcerer (or even a wizard) for all the magic they would know if they invest a large amount of xp in contracts. If you need to hide from someone but decide to use an elemental contract to just kill them then the consequences are going to be drastically different (which isn't necessarily a bad thing. It just means the story is a different one). Is the elemental contract more powerful? It certainly gives you another option of how to deal with a given issue, but it doesn't help you to hide when that elemental contract isn't capable of destroying something/someone. Which contract is more powerful then?

                    Do you see what I mean? A much more useful set of questions when asking about the strength of a given contract is to ask yourself what you are trying to accomplish as a character and as a player. If you want more drama in the story as a player then sometimes being subtle isn't going to help. However, if you've made the character to be someone that would want to hide from a given problem then subtlety can be a great tool. And these two questions (what do I want as a player, what do I want as a character) obviously don't just have to be about subtlety and drama. They can be asked about ANY situation. That then allows you to feel powerful no matter what contract your character is calling upon.
                    This is what I was trying to get at with my earlier post, but you have gone into far better detail.

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                    • #11
                      If there’s anything you can’t do with Tatterdamalion’s Workshop it’s because you haven’t watched enough MacGuyver.

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                      • #12
                        I think the vast majority of people already know that there is no "best", and the explanations of why there isn't one are mostly kicking in an open door. Just have fun with it!

                        One that surprised me with how good it can be is Fae Cunning. At first I discounted it slightly due to it not really improving your defense per se (except agaisnt firearms), which seemed odd for something that the fluff text described as a "defensive" Contract; however, I quickly came around to it, realizing that its does actually increase defense by allowing you to go on a full defensive while still getting rid of threats. It'sn ow one of my favourites for combat, and that for a Common Contract!

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Unahim View Post
                          I think the vast majority of people already know that there is no "best", and the explanations of why there isn't one are mostly kicking in an open door. Just have fun with it!

                          One that surprised me with how good it can be is Fae Cunning. At first I discounted it slightly due to it not really improving your defense per se (except agaisnt firearms), which seemed odd for something that the fluff text described as a "defensive" Contract; however, I quickly came around to it, realizing that its does actually increase defense by allowing you to go on a full defensive while still getting rid of threats. It'sn ow one of my favourites for combat, and that for a Common Contract!
                          Thank you for understanding what I was going for.

                          For me Loyal Servant is pretty powerful, you can make a servant out of almost anything. Make one out of corpse and you can reshape it into some horrific or beautiful stuff, or hid a murder by turning the victim into one of these and have it walk in front of a train. Make one out of Helium and it can fly, make of out of darkness and you have a spy, make one of out mirrors and it combos with contracts that work with mirrors, need a mobile power supply make one out of electicity (if you have a Promeathan ally it can heal them at will), fighting Vampires, make one out of Sunlight, fighting Werewolves make one out of Silver, need someone to set fires, make one out of fire, worried about being shot, make one out of steel and use the Elemental bonus, and so many other uses.

                          Given you can make them into any shape, you can also have them take on the form of a tool or weapon, shape one into a sword for example, although it wouldn't grant a tool bonus.

                          Also with enough glamour you can build an army very rapidly, a really, really big one.

                          And it's a common contract so anyone can start with it, even Fae Touched, making them fairly powerful right out the door, with diverse uses, it's not niche at all, it's only held back by the players creativity.

                          Also as ephemereal creatures, mundane weapons like guns only deal bashing damage to it.

                          Another powerful one is discreete summons, you can summon any size 1 tool (or bigger if you drop the mask) or a powerful hobgoblin Minion. It gets better if you can customize the minion. If you drop the Mask it gets even better. Another one held back only by the players creativity.
                          Last edited by Omegaphallic; 07-23-2019, 12:52 PM.

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Sith_Happens View Post
                            If there’s anything you can’t do with Tatterdamalion’s Workshop it’s because you haven’t watched enough MacGuyver.
                            Excellent choice.

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Falcon777 View Post
                              Sorry, but this thread reminds me of those games people would play in middle school where they would compare superheros from Marvel and DC and ask who would win. It's not a really useful question.
                              I disagree. Not because you are wrong (you are not) but because comparing one thing to another thing in a variety of hypothetical situations is enormous fun! Where you remember middle schoolers comparing who would win between two super heroes, now there are massive thriving communities of adults who ask those questions and love every second of it. Denying us this grand opportunity to navel gaze would be a travesty. =D
                              Last edited by Incendax; 07-23-2019, 10:36 PM.

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