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On the nature of iron

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  • On the nature of iron

    Given the effect of raw iron on a changeling, is it reasonable to theorize that they do not possess iron in their blood? Not all animals use iron to transport oxygen. The Horshoe crab is an example of this with its blue copper based blood . Going down that avenue of thinking would it also be reasonable to assume that their bodies would be somewhat intolerant to foods that are high in iron?

  • #2
    It wouldn't be reasonable at all to assume that, because the frailty of iron is a consistent facet of Arcadian-derived fae and that's a category that includes everything from mostly-normal living creatures to rock trolls to sentient patches of haze. It's a magical weakness of magical beings, and that means the rules it works on aren't necessarily familiar to the mundane world.


    Resident Lore-Hound
    Currently Consuming: Hunter: the Vigil 1e

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    • #3
      not to mention that the iron in living things and their remains exists as a small part of a larger protein of organic elements. And we all already know that combining iron with other materials weakens it's magical powers. But yeah, Satchel's right in that Hobgoblins can be beings whose biology doesn't make that amount of sense. How does a sentient patch of haze even eat? Why don't rock trolls eat rocks? My answer could be a hypothesis put forward by a Null Mysteriis scientist at first, but it wouldn't really apply to all hobgoblins on further inspection.


      A god is just a monster you kneel to. - ArcaneArts, Quoting "Fall of Gods"

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      • #4
        I'd say it all comes down to symbolism. Steel isn't as effective as iron against fae, because people think of steel and iron as separate concepts, even though from a chemical standpoint the dividing line is blurry at best. But people do generally think of rust as part of iron, so it burns the fae, even though chemically it's not just Fe any more.

        Similarly, most people don't think of blood as being iron-based, even though it is. So I don't think it would affect hobgoblins much if at all.

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        • #5
          There is this idea going around of making a contract with iron, but can it be done? Or will the forming contract break on contact?

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          • #6
            Originally posted by Excess View Post
            There is this idea going around of making a contract with iron, but can it be done? Or will the forming contract break on contact?
            2e has a complete blanket ban on fae-magic interacting with iron. You couldn't even begin to make a contract with it.


            Bloodline: The Stygians
            Ordo Dracul Mysteries: Mystery of Smoke, Revised Mystery of Živa
            Mage The Awakening: Spell Quick Reference (single page and landscape for computer screens)

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Tessie View Post

              2e has a complete blanket ban on fae-magic interacting with iron. You couldn't even begin to make a contract with it.
              A certain dragon Gentry from night horrors is not going to like that.

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              • #8
                A certain dragon Gentry is from a different edition. Did you mean to ask about first edition? That might have a different answer.


                Bloodline: The Stygians
                Ordo Dracul Mysteries: Mystery of Smoke, Revised Mystery of Živa
                Mage The Awakening: Spell Quick Reference (single page and landscape for computer screens)

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Tessie View Post
                  A certain dragon Gentry is from a different edition. Did you mean to ask about first edition? That might have a different answer.
                  No, I was just having fun.

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Excess View Post

                    A certain dragon Gentry from night horrors is not going to like that.
                    All said Gentry Dragon needs to be rid of his problem is a very powerful (and perfectly mundane) electromagnet. My own Gentry character, Tristan, (aka The Honeysuckle Prince) loves to take advantage of the fact that Iron is actually a rather crappy material for a weapon, by wearing mundane armor made of nonferrus superalloy, enchanting it with a powerful glamour to make it look like Hedgespun, savoring the expression of the poor fool who dares to try to use the stuff on him. The way armor works in the setting is it removes damage equal to its rating, and converts the rest to Bashing through blunt trauma, except The Gentry don't take damage from Bashing, unless it's delivered from by Cold Iron. The problem here, is the stuff actually has to first touch them, not merely clang against armor. Most foes see the fancy illusion, think that he's wearing Hedgespun, and that their iron blades are going to slice through it like it's not even there. What happens is the touch of the iron dispels the illusion, but otherwise accomplishes bugger all, and said adversary typically dies at the end of his blade shortly afterwards. Fortunately, most of the Gentry aren't smart enough to pick up on that particular trick. It was actually suggested to him by one of his loyal Changelings. Padding of spider silk is worn as part of the armor giving it the Bulletproof quality. That said, this isn't the usual kind of stuff he just walks around wearing, either. To date, I've only used it on two occasions. Once was against an actual demon (Infernii, not the Descent kind) and its gang of possessed mortals equipped with hellforged iron weapons and armor, and the second against one of the Nameless Things from the Nameless Place(TM) who I don't think even bothered with the iron.

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Van Owen View Post
                      All said Gentry Dragon needs to be rid of his problem is a very powerful (and perfectly mundane) electromagnet.
                      The Gentry prefer to conduct their affairs in parts of the cosmology where the laws of physics are so inconsistent that something as simple as a firearm can't be expected to work properly. Contracts are guaranteed by a force that makes agreements work as long as they are adhere to because they are agreements that are being adhered to, which tends to be the level of consistency required for the dealings of a pack of divine tricksters that inhabit a place that changes to suit their own whims and those of their encroaching peers in ongoing power struggles.


                      Resident Lore-Hound
                      Currently Consuming: Hunter: the Vigil 1e

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Satchel View Post
                        The Gentry prefer to conduct their affairs in parts of the cosmology where the laws of physics are so inconsistent that something as simple as a firearm can't be expected to work properly. Contracts are guaranteed by a force that makes agreements work as long as they are adhere to because they are agreements that are being adhered to, which tends to be the level of consistency required for the dealings of a pack of divine tricksters that inhabit a place that changes to suit their own whims and those of their encroaching peers in ongoing power struggles.
                        Generally speaking, I agree, but also recall that particular specimen has a problem with a fragment of it starting to inch closer and closer to its heart, so some out of the box thinking may be required in this instance. How likely such perfectly mundane solution is to occur to that kind of being is largely a function of how much time it spends in the human world, combined with its understanding of mortal science or academics, which may well be something of a rarity. Of course, the psychology (insofar as that term can be applied) must also be considered. Said Fae may have chosen to deliberately let things to get to that point, so that it could try to conquer it in its own way, or it might simply be too proud to accept such a banal solution. I seem to recall the dragon has ability to take the form of any living thing it desires, so a liquid/amorphous form, combined with a sufficiently powerful centrifuge might also do the trick. (And wouldn't you like to be the Changeling who recommends *That* solution!)

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                        • #13
                          Dzarumazh explicitly spends a great deal of time in the mortal world, enough to have an established alternate identity with innumerable contacts and allies, a business front, and a paper trail dating back centuries. The Conqueror Worm is a pretty atypical Gentry.

                          That said, there is a pretty significant barrier to mundane solutions. Dzarumazh would have to trust another being enough to reveal his weakness and allow them to interact with it, and a combination of pride and paranoia makes that essentially impossible.

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                          • #14
                            Given some of the extremely powerful magnets, with up to 3,600lb pull force you can just buy, he probably just needs to order a couple of the things That much force should be more than sufficient to pull out a bit of iron, which I don't anticipate he'll need extra help with that. Just position it over the wound area, holding the thing in one claw, waiting for the iron to work its way to the source.

                            https://brutemagnetics.com/collectio...r-threadlocker

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Van Owen View Post
                              Given some of the extremely powerful magnets, with up to 3,600lb pull force you can just buy, he probably just needs to order a couple of the things That much force should be more than sufficient to pull out a bit of iron, which I don't anticipate he'll need extra help with that. Just position it over the wound area, holding the thing in one claw, waiting for the iron to work its way to the source.

                              https://brutemagnetics.com/collectio...r-threadlocker

                              This is, of course, still assuming that mortal physics apply to the situation at all, and that's not guaranteed when we're talking about mythic beings whose entire schtick is that they are only bound to the bits of reality they are contractually obligated to acknowledge.


                              When the cat's a Stray, the mice will pray...

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