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so, what is the verdict on 2e?

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  • #16
    Having the elemental Seeming benefit be dependent on the teacher turns those benefits into a series of benefits rather than a single benefit that fits all. Non-elementals, while having to learn each separately from the Contracts, gain a lot more choice than the elementals who are locked into their own elements, unless you rule that it's possible to learn multiple different elemental Seeming benefits per Contract, something which I highly doubt is intended.

    I completely agree that it's the user's own associated element that matters (for the reasons stated by Taidragon), and that it's not very elegant that you need to figure out an element for non-elementals.
    Last edited by Tessie; 12-12-2019, 08:31 AM.


    Bloodline: The Stygians
    Ordo Dracul Mysteries: Mystery of Smoke, Revised Mystery of Živa
    Mage The Awakening: Spell Quick Reference (single page and landscape for computer screens)

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    • #17
      Originally posted by Tessie View Post
      ...unless you rule that it's possible to learn multiple different elemental Seeming benefits per Contract, something which I highly doubt is intended.
      I'm not sure that doubt is warranted.

      In 1e you could absolutely learn multiple elemental Contracts (and animal ones for that matter). I don't see any compelling reason why 2e would limit you here.

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      • #18
        Id argue becoming the Avatar should be a High-Wyrd goal. The kind of stuff that makes you into the stuff of Changeling ballads.

        However, I'd also argue that if other Changelings can reach this level of variety in a game, Elementals should be able to expand their own concept with enough effort, experimentation abd revelation. A storm Elemental may start out with just High Wind, but depending on how they develop, they could eventually gain power over Lightning, Rain, Fog Floodwaters or maybe even Mud

        Edit: but creating actual mechanics to this process needs it's own topic instead of just derailing this general retrospective . anyone else interested?
        Last edited by Master Aquatosic; 12-12-2019, 03:26 PM.


        A god is just a monster you kneel to. - ArcaneArts, Quoting "Fall of Gods"

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        • #19
          Originally posted by Tessie View Post
          Having the elemental Seeming benefit be dependent on the teacher turns those benefits into a series of benefits rather than a single benefit that fits all. Non-elementals, while having to learn each separately from the Contracts, gain a lot more choice than the elementals who are locked into their own elements, unless you rule that it's possible to learn multiple different elemental Seeming benefits per Contract, something which I highly doubt is intended.

          I completely agree that it's the user's own associated element that matters (for the reasons stated by Taidragon), and that it's not very elegant that you need to figure out an element for non-elementals.
          You can let Elementals also learn the elemental benefits of other Elementals.

          Also, there's only "more choice" if "an Elemental who knows this Contract, who is willing to teach it to me, who I'm willing to swear a pupil's pledge to, who is of the element I want" is somehow a buffet of options at your table and always guarantueed to exist. At mine it tends to be less "I'm actively looking for someone to teach me this benefit" and more "I have a good relationship to this other Changeling and I've seen him use a Contract I also have, I'll see if I can learn something from him." I'm not going to say having a plethora of good teaching candidates around and letting PCs have active knowledge of all the Seeming benefits they could learn is a bad way to do it, it's just not the scenario I have in mind when offering my interpretations on this aspect of the rules.

          I don't feel non-Elemental seemings have any inehrent tie to any element, and so them being taught how to manipulate a given element by a master of that element makes sense to me, YMMV.
          Last edited by Unahim; 12-13-2019, 08:41 AM.


          Homebrew
          - CtL 2E: Seeming Benefits for every Contract

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          • #20
            My reading of the rules has that each time a person takes a Sword Contract, they choose the element that Contract applies to-- this would apply equally to Elementals and non-Elementals. That's certainly how I'd adjudicate it.

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            • #21
              Apologies for derailing the topic here, and now re-railing the topic:

              As of now the only real drawback I feel for the system is that there just isn’t enough content as of yet. We have the rules to make new Kiths, for example, but with only twelve in the core book it’s a little hard to scale them properly. However, it’s still early in the game’s lifespan, and we are going to get new content soon to expand what we have.

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              • #22
                The Verdict is... Guilty of 7 counts of fun, 21 counts of innovation, 5 counts of stories telling, and over 300 counts of awesome.

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by Omegaphallic View Post
                  The Verdict is... Guilty of 7 counts of fun, 21 counts of innovation, 5 counts of stories telling, and over 300 counts of awesome.
                  Can agree to this. ^^


                  Homebrew
                  - CtL 2E: Seeming Benefits for every Contract

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Hopefully, I'm not committing some form of thread necromancy here, but if so, bear with me as I'm new to the forums. While I have not explored all of it, 2E has its pros and cons. I still play some characters who are based on 1E, and will be sticking with it, though I am mining 2E for good ideas that can be adapted and will continue doing so. Mostly what annoys me is the lore and lighter tone of 2E compared to the original, particularly as my main character associated with CtL, is actually one of the Gentry.

                    Flat out, I preferred the darker, more traumatic tone that 1E took. To me, understanding just how dark, twisted, and traumatic the Durance was for the character, is the key to understanding Clarity and pretty much everything else connected to the Changeling condition, and it feels that 2E soft sells this, to the detriment of the setting. It feels as if the Gentry themselves have been nerfed and limited to a huge degree from 1E to 2E. They went from utterly terrifying and literally "unknowable" in 1E to scary but predictable beings in 2E, who could be destroyed by cleverly unraveling a series of oaths. While this idea was pioneered in 1E, (though strangely enough, in one of the Geist books) it wasn't sure to apply to every Fae. Likewise, Freeholds seem a good deal more powerful and the Seasonal Courts constrain the actions of the Fae to a greater degree. I think all the various changes remove much of the horror aspect of the original, that the ST has to deviate a fair deal from the tone of the published material to restore.

                    Bear in mind, I'm something of a relic, having cut my teeth playing Black Dog era OWoD, that was chock full of hideous nastiness that didn't try to pull any punches, and that the current game has moved away from that, but I enjoyed that kind of edgy setting that placed so much emphasis on style. When NWoD (1E) came out, I immediately saw the potential of the improved mechanical system, particularly as more sourcebooks were added to it, but largely continued to use the same tone as early edition OWoD had, and 1E CtL made it very easy to do that. CoD, is to my mind, something else entirely, and caters to a different sort of player, which I think is why I largely feel alienated from the current setting. With my current ST, we've been playing together in a homebrew setting for close to a decade now, that while importing some elements from WoD, really isn't that setting. In fact, only Mage and Changeling have been adapted to it, and the lore of Mage has been altered so much, that it bears little resemblance to the original, leaving Changeling as the only thing to survive mostly intact, in its 1E form.

                    I started playing CtL,as I've always been interested in the Fae, and the huge body of folklore surrounding them. The thing is, I've always been more interested in playing a character who actually is one, rather than just an escaped slave or pet, which is the problem with CtL as a whole. It does look like it might be easier with the 2E released material to adapt Hobgoblins as player characters, if the ST is willing to toss out the limitations on the amount of time they can spend in the mortal world. There might also be some promise with 2E of completely nuking the lore, and entirely redefining what the Fae are in the setting. What I might do in that instance, is divide the Fae into the Lesser and Greater, with the Gentry occupying the second category. The characters would be lesser sorts who are trying to either improve their own station, eventually becoming one of the Gentry, or deciding that while they're small bit players in Faerie, they're actually pretty awesome compared to your typical mortal, and there is a great deal of power and fun to be found on the other side of the Veil, as they seek to carve out a place Ironside. There is no shortage of other beings in the rest of the WoD to give them ample allies, enemies, or antagonists.

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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by Van Owen View Post
                      They went from utterly terrifying and literally "unknowable" in 1E to scary but predictable beings in 2E, who could be destroyed by cleverly unraveling a series of oaths. While this idea was pioneered in 1E, (though strangely enough, in one of the Geist books) it wasn't sure to apply to every Fae.
                      It was literally laid out explicitly in Equinox Road. It's one of the reasons still-captive changelings are afraid to leave — the Gentry may be mercurial and alien, but they're personalities built on patterns you can work around even if those patterns have gotten well and truly into your head. Better the Lord or Lady you know.

                      The bad-acid-trip nightmare-logic aspects of Lost's Fae have always owed a substantial chunk of their horror to the confounding effects of psychoreactive regions on observer-side presentation combined with the fact that their place in the cosmology as gods means most bets are off without sustained observation — in either edition, Clarity being imperiled is in some respects the horror of Mage's Quiescence turned up to eleven.


                      Resident Lore-Hound
                      Currently Consuming: Hunter: the Vigil 1e

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                      • #26
                        Originally posted by Satchel View Post
                        It was literally laid out explicitly in Equinox Road. It's one of the reasons still-captive changelings are afraid to leave — the Gentry may be mercurial and alien, but they're personalities built on patterns you can work around even if those patterns have gotten well and truly into your head. Better the Lord or Lady you know.

                        The bad-acid-trip nightmare-logic aspects of Lost's Fae have always owed a substantial chunk of their horror to the confounding effects of psychoreactive regions on observer-side presentation combined with the fact that their place in the cosmology as gods means most bets are off without sustained observation — in either edition, Clarity being imperiled is in some respects the horror of Mage's Quiescence turned up to eleven.
                        I can agree with that, at least in principle and that Changelings are among one of the few beings able to have the "luxury" of such sustained scrutiny, but bear in mind it was also stated in 1E, that frequently, their Keeper only showed them what they wanted them to see, meaning one could never completely rely on the value of those observations. The other problem is that how much of the Durance Changelings actually recalled was a function of their Wyrd rating. This bit one of my characters in the ass, rather hard, thanks to the Dark Secret Flaw. Erich was a member of the German nobility who was taken as he lie dying under his horse in 1914, to fight a war for a member of the Fae known as The General. He did some unsavory things to survive, including serving as the equivalent of a commissar for the Fae, after becoming a favorite of the Fae's "Sister." The Army was demobilized after the war, which had lasted nearly a century; was won. Said demobilization meant being dumped into The Hedge. Erich didn't recall the nature of all his service, and he'd only become a commissar about half way through it. Unfortunately, some of the other Changelings who ended up emerging in the same area did, having had far shorter Durances, and their testimony made his position in the Freehold almost untenable, and nearly started a conflict between the Spring and Summer Courts. Fortunately, he was welcomed back to his family estate by his twin sister, who had been turned into a Vampire during his absence. The pair had been planning on running away together, before the war, having been involved in a less than sibling appropriate relationship, but he quickly found out this was a case of "Out of the frying pan, into the fire," sort of instance, as his twin was dealing with an attempted takeover by a powerful coterie of Vampires and had a Uratha problem on top of it, as they'd laid claim to the forest on the family lands. To make matters worse, a faction of the Summer Court was planning on dealing with him, without anyone being the wiser...

                        Clarity Loss can be terrifying. Tristan, the Changeling (Fairest Flowering-Muse) precursor to my present Fae character of the same name, encountered this when the romance novelist he was engaged to was killed in a car accident. This immediately sent him from Clarity 5 to 3, dropping him into a dark a pit it took a rather long time to claw his way back out of again. While he eventually recovered mechanically, he never did emotionally, and he'd spend the rest of his days as a Changeling trying to figure out some way of bringing her back, perhaps with the right Contract or Pledge or Artifact. In the end, this quest for knowledge and power set him on the road to becoming one of the Gentry. Knowing what was going to happen, he attempted to use a combination of Talecrafting and a Hedge artifact to force his future Fae self to take up the quest, but the Apotheosised being that emerged as the Honeysuckle Prince, would not be so easily bound.
                        Last edited by Van Owen; 10-16-2020, 02:39 AM.

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                        • #27
                          It was also implied in 1E that in many instances, the Changeling didn't truly escape on their own, rather was allowed to think that, due to part of the Fae's motivation for making them in the first place. Escaped Changelings created their own stories and since the Fae was always a part of those, it gained a certain amount of sustenance from activities of their Changeling. Of course, The Hunt, also generated the same kind of sustenance.

                          Generally speaking, I feel the 1E Fae were much more clever, and dangerous because of it, than their 2E counterparts, which are presented as being harder to destroy outright, but also possessing more predictability and each one seems to have been created with a built in roadmap of how to end them--it's just a matter of figuring out their "programming." The way the 2E corebook makes them feel, is like stupidly powerful bots, who are are rather constrained in their actions by the archtype they are built upon, rather than the avatars of eldritch gods they were in the original edition. I always saw them as being almost Lovecraftian cosmic horrors, and so alien that trying to guess the individual motivations or actions of a specific Gentry was at best, a crapshoot, with the dice loaded not in your favor.

                          It was also insinuated there were (thankfully very rare) instances of Freeholds managing to piss one off enough that the True Fae itself, and not just one of its Actors, showed up to deal with the problem, resulting in the loss of the entire Freehold and everyone in it.
                          Last edited by Van Owen; 10-16-2020, 03:16 AM.

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                          • #28
                            Originally posted by Van Owen View Post
                            Generally speaking, I feel the 1E Fae were much more clever, and dangerous because of it, than their 2E counterparts, which are presented as being harder to destroy outright, but also possessing more predictability and each one seems to have been created with a built in roadmap of how to end them--it's just a matter of figuring out their "programming." The way the 2E corebook makes them feel, is like stupidly powerful bots, who are are rather constrained in their actions by the archtype they are built upon, rather than the avatars of eldritch gods they were in the original edition
                            This is literally how most godlike supernatural beings work already — as a spirit, Luna is constrained by her nature, but her nature is the origin point for every lunar spirit in existence and the complexities of Shadow-born beings is already such that an ordinary spirit of an ordinary animal becomes cunning enough to outpace human intellect at one Rank above "awake" and inhabits an ecology and legalistic framework that (despite largely corresponding to the natural order of reality) is staggering in the scope of its mysteries and complexity.

                            The Fae are constrained by the tools they work with, but the consequences of breaking the agreements that give them their power tend to be solely that they lose those specific powers, and they're explicitly generally clever enough to know when they're making an agreement with consequences. The Old Gods' flaws are exploited through their passions or by outmaneuvering them with bigger sticks in the right places, which is a substantial chunk of ordinary power politics with a different scale and theme.

                            Like, I understand the value of mystery, but there's a thick bold line between "this is horrifying because I don't have the context to understand what's going on or stop it from affecting me" and "the gods of an ordered reality run on diegetic Calvinball." I prefer being able to actually build something on the giant pit of chaos these things emerge from.


                            Resident Lore-Hound
                            Currently Consuming: Hunter: the Vigil 1e

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                            • #29
                              At some level, it just doesn't make sense for the central beings of a gameline that is based on oaths and Contracts to not be able to be pinned down on some level. Their power is based on Contracts, so somewhere, at some level, there's going to be a Contract you can try to unravel to fight them. At some point they made a deal and you can't un-make it for the sake of being "oh-so-random".

                              That does not make the beings themselves more predictable, though. It just gives them weaknesses. And weaknesses are interesting, Superman is interesting to many people not because he's ultra strong, but because of the weaknesses he still has that the stories focus around. Without weaknesses, interaction with the True Fae is essentially limited to just a toss up, as you can never build on anything anyway. Without Superman's weaknesses (mostly his morals) stories with him would be limited to bullets bouncing off his chest, gg, end of story. Yawn.

                              I'll admit though, I've seen some responses to the threads here recently, and I kinda feel a lot of this is fetishism based around True-Fae-as-self-insert rather than True-Fae-as-vehicle-for-story-and-drama. Once we start discussing what kind of uber armour our True Fae characters walk around in to become completely immune to the bane of iron we're really diverging far from their expected role in the story. Which is actually a pretty weird argument when you're also trying to sell that 1E True Fae are more "chaotic and unpredictable", because a True Fae making a conscious, thought-through decision to procure, maintain and wear (at all times) a suit of anti-iron super armour shows a sort of consistency of reasoning that surely goes against that. Where at any point does this True Fae's name or title come into it? It also shows a distinct lack of the arrogance True Fae are often portrayed as having. Why does this all-powerful being constantly live in fear of a bit of iron, to the point of cramping his style with bulky armour, announcing his lack of self-confidence to the world?

                              I actually find 1E Gentry too human, the weirdness of the Name + Titles thing in 2E makes them much more alien.

                              So I kinda feel that this argument started at "I'm pre-disposed to disliking this edition since I perceive it as de-powering my own True Fae character." and then goes from there to purposefully find fault with the rest of the text. I don't mind someone disliking an edition over one element, if a True Fae being a certain level of perceived strength to you is a make-or-break thing then fair enough, but there's no reason to try to justify it beyond that by making unsupported claims by the rest of the text. :P

                              Just for instance:
                              Originally posted by Van Owen View Post
                              Mostly what annoys me is the lore and lighter tone of 2E compared to the original.
                              This is just flat-out wrong, imo.

                              First of all, in 1E yo actually could not be turned into a Changeling without making at least one voluntary Contract:
                              In truth, however, a human’s fate is forever changed no
                              matter whether she chooses to bargain with the Fae or to die
                              by refusing. Those who have accepted a Contract with the
                              True Fae (and through them, to Faerie itself) are changed
                              by the process — they become changelings.
                              From the very start in 1E, you at least had some agency. Refusing to make a bargain in the fae realm, trying to escape right away if you could, was always an option. The entire first chapter on in the 1E core book actually doesn't even really mention bad things happening during the Durance at all, and in fact it's mostly only referenced in Seemings rather than in any talk about the Durance as a concept, and most often in the book it refers to some "trauma" but no details.

                              In 2E you are actually given no choice, you're just grabbed and bent to the True Fae's purpose, that's it. They're far scarier in that way. Descriptions of the Durance as a concept are more explicit about it being essentially slavery and generally a bad time, too.

                              The first Durance example in 1E:
                              A story tells of a man who, on the final leg of a long journey,
                              sheltered from a storm in an empty palace. As he leaves, he
                              takes a rose from a garden. The owner of the palace, a faerie in the
                              shape of a terrible Beast appears and catches him, and tells him
                              he must die. The man begs to live, for he has a daughter whom he
                              loves, and the beast demands that the daughter come and stay with
                              him. The man agrees, although he has no intention of sending his
                              daughter away. When he returns home, he finds that his daughter
                              has died. In truth, the Beast has taken her away and left a fake to
                              die in her place. The Beast treats the girl well, certainly, but she
                              cannot leave. One day, having lost all hope of escape, she
                              agrees to become the Beast’s wife. There is no ceremony,
                              only an agreement, a veil and a wedding
                              night. And on that wedding night, she lays
                              with him, and she becomes like him, a
                              Beast, forever, her memory and thought
                              washed away in the flood of sensation,
                              the tyranny of the now.
                              Can you honestly say that this is darker, more traumatic, etc than any of the example Durances in 1E? Like the one where you're turned into a monster, hunted, have a trap snap on you, are put in a cage, starved, beaten, whipped, etc? It's obviously not.

                              At worst they are pretty much equally grim, 1E and 2E, and at best you could say 2E is actually more grim because you're not given any choice at all.

                              Also note how the Beast keeper in the above blurb has clearly understandable motives and actions. Another nail in the coffin of the "True Fae are literally unknowable in 1E" here. This Keeper's actions make a twisted sort of sense.

                              Maybe you had particularly grim Durances at your table an thus believed the 1E setting material specifically being more grim, but it really isn't.

                              Some of the Changelings in my games get skinned alive, hung up, and as they bleed from every inch in their body, their colours drain out of them to be used to paint the black-and-white realm of their Keeper. And usually it's they themselves who get the honours of doing the painting, painting away their own colours one stroke at a time...
                              I'd say that's a pretty damn brutal experience, and nothing in 2E is dissuading me from using these kind of Durances, and nothing in 1E is encouraging me from using these kind of Durances.

                              It feels as if the Gentry themselves have been nerfed and limited to a huge degree from 1E to 2E. They went from utterly terrifying and literally "unknowable" in 1E to scary but predictable beings in 2E, who could be destroyed by cleverly unraveling a series of oaths. While this idea was pioneered in 1E, (though strangely enough, in one of the Geist books) it wasn't sure to apply to every Fae. Likewise, Freeholds seem a good deal more powerful and the Seasonal Courts constrain the actions of the Fae to a greater degree. I think all the various changes remove much of the horror aspect of the original, that the ST has to deviate a fair deal from the tone of the published material to restore.
                              We've had 2E threads here complaining that fighting back against your captor and eventually defeating them is so hard as to generally be unfeasible and not something any Changeling can really even expect to accomplish, with Freehold or otherwise. You are seriously exaggerating how vulnerable the True Fae are, there might be a way to deal with them, but it's still nigh impossible to achieve.
                              Your enemies being so strong that there's pretty much nothing you can do to guard yourself isn't horror, though. The only reaction you can have to that is to stop caring. If there's nothing you can do, may as well live your life and see what happens. In contrast the strict methods the 2E changelings have to try (emphasis) to stay safe impose a sort of state of constant weariness and struggle on them. it lends a certain claustrophobia to the experience, as there's certain lines they can't draw outside without being seriously hampered. This in turn pushes them towards one another, where the real paranoia can bloom.

                              So thoroughly, if respectfully, disagree.

                              Bear in mind, I'm something of a relic, having cut my teeth playing Black Dog era OWoD, that was chock full of hideous nastiness that didn't try to pull any punches, and that the current game has moved away from that, but I enjoyed that kind of edgy setting that placed so much emphasis on style. When NWoD (1E) came out, I immediately saw the potential of the improved mechanical system, particularly as more sourcebooks were added to it, but largely continued to use the same tone as early edition OWoD had, and 1E CtL made it very easy to do that. CoD, is to my mind, something else entirely, and caters to a different sort of player, which I think is why I largely feel alienated from the current setting. With my current ST, we've been playing together in a homebrew setting for close to a decade now, that while importing some elements from WoD, really isn't that setting. In fact, only Mage and Changeling have been adapted to it, and the lore of Mage has been altered so much, that it bears little resemblance to the original, leaving Changeling as the only thing to survive mostly intact, in its 1E form.
                              WoD focuses on the monsters outside of you and often feels a bit like a dark superhero gameline to me, CoD focuses on the monsters inside of you. In a game about trauma, that seems appropriate. CtL strikes a particularly good balance between both for me.

                              I started playing CtL,as I've always been interested in the Fae, and the huge body of folklore surrounding them. The thing is, I've always been more interested in playing a character who actually is one, rather than just an escaped slave or pet, which is the problem with CtL as a whole. It does look like it might be easier with the 2E released material to adapt Hobgoblins as player characters, if the ST is willing to toss out the limitations on the amount of time they can spend in the mortal world. There might also be some promise with 2E of completely nuking the lore, and entirely redefining what the Fae are in the setting. What I might do in that instance, is divide the Fae into the Lesser and Greater, with the Gentry occupying the second category. The characters would be lesser sorts who are trying to either improve their own station, eventually becoming one of the Gentry, or deciding that while they're small bit players in Faerie, they're actually pretty awesome compared to your typical mortal, and there is a great deal of power and fun to be found on the other side of the Veil, as they seek to carve out a place Ironside. There is no shortage of other beings in the rest of the WoD to give them ample allies, enemies, or antagonists.
                              Changelings are Fae. They are not make-believe fae. And many hobs were once human or other creatures, too. Even the True Fae were originally not existant, but willed themselves into being. There's even ways to play a hob... goblin debt. :P

                              Also, again here, your idea of "Lesser Fae" trying to improve your stature to eventually become Gentry... How are those motivations unknowable? That's just bold-faced ambition, entirely human, entirely understandable.
                              Touting the desire for "unknowable" Gentry but then wanting to play them is a contradictio in terminis, since the very act of playing them means you'll have to agree on what kind of campaign it'll be, what the goals and means of the settings are, etc, and you as player are not going to come anywhere near being able to portray an unknowable being. Only an all-powerful narrator can really try to pull off an "unknowable" being, and that's mostly by just letting them do whatever, and then later making the reality of the story line up with what they're doing. Like this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YyaC7NmPsc0

                              It was also implied in 1E that in many instances, the Changeling didn't truly escape on their own, rather was allowed to think that, due to part of the Fae's motivation for making them in the first place.
                              This is no different from 2E. True Loyalists, sleeper agents, and unknowing canary-in-the-coal-mine types are released all the time. It's a big reason for paranoia in Freeholds. You never know who really escaped on their own merit.
                              There's plenty of examples of True Fae motives in 2E, and the rules certainly don't mandate that each Changeling "escape" is on the level.

                              It was also insinuated there were (thankfully very rare) instances of Freeholds managing to piss one off enough that the True Fae itself, and not just one of its Actors, showed up to deal with the problem, resulting in the loss of the entire Freehold and everyone in it.
                              Once again no different from 2E. Any Wyrd 5+ Fetch in 2E can potentially directly summon one of the Gentry into the world, and you definitely don't want that to happen.

                              So... I'm not going to say your feelings are invalid, they aren't and couldn't be, but your arguments certainly seem to selectively ignore elements of 2E, and reinvent factual elements of 1E based upon your own perception of it rather than what is actually written there.

                              In the end your problem with 2E is that it isn't Gentry: the game. But neither is 1E to be fair. You'll have to heavily house rule either to make a fun, believable Gentry game (even with the support in 1E, imo). And it's absolutely fine if you want to do that, but 2E isn't a worse game for not offering it as a baseline feature. :P (Which, indeed 1E did not either.)
                              Last edited by Unahim; 10-17-2020, 09:18 AM.


                              Homebrew
                              - CtL 2E: Seeming Benefits for every Contract

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                I think 2.0 is a vast improvement from 1.0, although it's sort of tricky playing the new game and forgetting the old one exists. I just assume a lot of things are still the same even when the book hasn't explicitly said they are (I very much assumed changelings could not produce children in 2.0 until I came to these forums and saw this is no longer the case).

                                Hedgespinning is amazing. I really like Hedge Ghosts. Oaths lasting forever is really neat. Just a lot of improvements on an already excellent game.

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