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so, what is the verdict on 2e?

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  • #31
    Originally posted by Unahim View Post
    Also, again here, your idea of "Lesser Fae" trying to improve your stature to eventually become Gentry... How are those motivations unknowable? That's just bold-faced ambition, entirely human, entirely understandable.
    Touting the desire for "unknowable" Gentry but then wanting to play them is a contradictio in terminis, since the very act of playing them means you'll have to agree on what kind of campaign it'll be, what the goals and means of the settings are, etc, and you as player are not going to come anywhere near being able to portray an unknowable being. Only an all-powerful narrator can really try to pull off an "unknowable" being, and that's mostly by just letting them do whatever, and then later making the reality of the story line up with what they're doing. Like this:
    I won't say that you don't make some good points, and will consider them carefully as I keep reading more 2E material. As for my concept of the Lesser Fae, they would be more human, or at least more relatable, in contrast to the Gentry. They don't need to be unknowable powerful entities, right out of the box, rather that is something to aspire to.

    What I don't like the about CtL in general is that I have to start out with an escaped human slave, and the main change to the Lesser Fae, from Changelings, is they would be characters who were born as Fae from the very beginning, with no human baggage or background to have to bother with. Frankly, I found all that stuff annoying when playing CtL, as opposed to what I really wanted to do. My Gentry character, The Honeysuckle Prince, started out as Tristan, a Fairest Flowering-Muse. I played him long and well as a Changeling, until he reached Wyrd 10, and became his present self. Later on, using the rules from Equinox Road, I created him as a 3 Title Gentry, (because it appeared a 3 Title specimen represented a "typical" member of the True Fae) and through gameplay over the years, (with the same ST, I'll add) I earned two more, bringing him to his present 5.

    Playing one of the True Fae, is quite a challenge, but I enjoy it. A bit of personal information about me, is I'm an Aspie, and in particular, I struggle with empathy, and forming connections with others, that aren't based on purely mutual interests, and the way the True Fae in 1E were described made them more relatable to me, than the Changelings, and this is before you add in my long standing interest in the historic folklore, (though that angle is better represented by the hobgoblins than the Gentry, but the hobgoblins weren't well developed in 1E) which drives my desire for a particular kind of game. The main problem with the Gentry, is the sheer power level involved, which makes a party of them effectively unplayable, so they wouldn't work in anything like a typical game. With the RP my Gentry is played in, it's just me and my partner, the ST, and he's just one character we switch back and forth in between. Even then, a lot of the RP is either social in nature, or he's used to set up storylines for the other characters, which often involves getting into lots of trouble and then figuring out ways to bribe or manipulate them into dealing with the mess he's managed to make. It's a lot of fun, but again, wouldn't work for a more typical game, with multiple players, which is why I've been slowly developing the idea of the Lesser Fae as an alternative to CtL, which I think could very well.

    Under my vision, the Lesser Fae, would be true creatures of the night, on par with Vampires and Werewolves, not pitiful bands of half-breed, broken, PTSD ridden former slaves hiding under their blankets at night, secretly afraid that Master is going to come looking for them. They'd be the redcaps, goblins, satyrs and sidhe of legend, and beyond those would be the enigmatic Peerage, comprised of the Greater Fae, which would function much like the Gentry, though probably reduced to something like a playable level, for when the characters do eventually get to that point. Tentatively, Courts would be classical Seelie and Unseelie, with the main difference being just how monstrous its members habitually behave, and their desired end results, though neither would be particularly "good" or "nice". While I admit, this would remove much of the internal horror of CtL, there would be plenty of the external sorts to replace it--Just imagine biker gangs of Unseelie Redcaps, with packs of Barghests in tow. It would a mixture of the Byzantine politics and social play of Vampire, the imagery and wonder of Changeling, and perhaps the territoriality of Werewolf, or the paranoia of Demon, particularly if there is some sort of Cold War state between the two courts. For the tone, I'd try to bring back some of that edgy stylism I miss from early OWoD--Hopefully without creating something that looks like a lost Black Dog publication in the process, but nothing one Ever does is going to appeal to everyone, anyway.

    Edit: I may explore this idea further in a separate post.
    Last edited by Van Owen; 10-17-2020, 05:04 PM.


    • #32
      Long-time lurker and first-time poster here. First Edition Changeling the Lost was what drew me into what would become Chronicles of Darkness, so second edition Changeling the Lost was something I was looking forward to for a long time. After getting it, I think it's a major improvement over the first edition. My brief thoughts are:
      • I like how Kiths work in 2E because I love conceptualizing what a kith might look like for different Seemings.
      • I really like the Huntsmen as antagonists, and I like the version we ended up getting in the corebook over the "spirits of the hunt that hate you and kill people every time one appears in Ironside" from the previews. I like the idea of the True Fae tearing out their hearts and you as changelings helping one find their heart and free them as a possible plot point.
      • The Fairest being retooled more as leaders and Ogres as defenders is something I really like.
      • I really dig the Contracts being themed after Regalia.
      • I liked the original idea of True Fae being statless antagonists mentioned in an early preview, so I kind of wish the final product didn't have a "Here's how to stat the True Fae" section. I still tend to go for statless True Fae for story purposes.
      • The Goblin Debt mechanic is really intriguing and has a lot of story potential.
      • Still wish Honshu was one of the settings in the corebook, since I really liked the Japan Lost preview put out by David Hill.
      Overall, Changeling the Lost still remains my favorite book in the Chronicles of Darkness, and I look forward to seeing what future books come out.


      • #33
        Won't quote the entire post as it'd get too long, but:

        Originally posted by Van Owen View Post
        What I don't like the about CtL in general is that I have to start out with an escaped human slave, and the main change to the Lesser Fae, from Changelings, is they would be characters who were born as Fae from the very beginning, with no human baggage or background to have to bother with.
        That's absolutely fair. I just want to make clear to those reading this thread that CtL 2E is absolutely a great game for playing Changelings, by pointing out that your main problem with it is that it assumes you want to play a Changeling, when you personally don't. :P
        There's nothing wrong with wanting to play different types of Fae, but it's not strange that the splat doesn't cater to it in its opening book.

        To me, the human baggage is the best part. So much so that I like to play a session with all the characters still human, before zipping to the point where they are Changelings. It immediately gives them so much motivation... they want to check up on all the NPCs from their human days, pick up threads that were brutally severed by their abduction..; all good stuff! But your mileage may vary. ^^

        will consider them carefully as I keep reading more 2E material
        On that note, I happened to read something in Oak, Ash and Thorn that made me remember this conversation. On p. 53 it talks about an item called a Nameless mask, and in the description mentions:
        The cleverest of those servants use their
        Nameless Masks to escape back through the Hedge, although
        some of their fellow freeholders argue that their
        Keepers might have let them escape on purpose.
        It was already insinuated in the main book in some places, but this is another outright proof that Keepers letting Changelings merely think they escaped on their own is still very much a thing.
        Last edited by Unahim; 10-25-2020, 10:01 AM.