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Hedgespinning in 2e

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  • Hedgespinning in 2e

    So I'm trying to wrap my head around the new hedgespinning rules and I want to see if I've got this right.

    First, you can decide to do Hedgespinning any time you are in the Hedge and making a roll, meaning that practically any roll can be made for Hedgespinning (assuming you can get whatever you need working inside the Hedge). If I take a locked laptop into my Hollow and I'm trying to crack it I can use Intelligence + Computer as a valid Hedgespinning roll because I'm in the Hedge and decided that I'm going to use my task for Hedgespinning, if I've got a Blacksmithing Workshop any time I'm rolling Strength + Crafts to do blacksmithing I can decide I'm going to use that for Hedgespinning, etc. Is that correct?

    If the rote would ordinarily be a rote action (e.g. I've got Professional Training at 5 as a Hacker and I spend a point of Willpower) is it still a rote action when I'm Hedgespinning?

    Assuming I'm doing something that is an extended roll, is there any particular downside to me to using Hedgespinning? Assume I'm building a suit of chainmail. Since it isn't reasonable to build an entire suit in a few hours I have to use the 'Taking Your Time' rule as an extended action. If I've got Strength + Crafts + Specialty of 8 and a Workshop of 3 it seems like I've got 8 rolls of 9 dice (I think Hedgespinning in a Hollow is a -2 penalty) to finish the suit. Is there anything in particular that keeps me from just allocating 1 success from each roll to success on the armor and then put the rest of the successes into Hedgespinning? If I'm am an Artist do I get to do a Paradigm Shift when I get 3 successes since 3 successes on a Crafts roll counts as an exceptional success for that kith?

    Is there any particular downside to doing this? Some results such as banking points or creating any one goblin fruit would persist long after the activity so I'm wondering why any Changeling wouldn't do any extended rolls like that as Hedgespinning assuming they have the opportunity.

  • #2
    This is a lot of questions.
    Originally posted by esampson View Post
    First, you can decide to do Hedgespinning any time you are in the Hedge and making a roll, meaning that practically any roll can be made for Hedgespinning (assuming you can get whatever you need working inside the Hedge).
    To accomplish Hedgespinning effects, which are mostly temporary or confined to the Hedge, yes.

    If I take a locked laptop into my Hollow and I'm trying to crack it I can use Intelligence + Computer as a valid Hedgespinning roll because I'm in the Hedge and decided that I'm going to use my task for Hedgespinning, if I've got a Blacksmithing Workshop any time I'm rolling Strength + Crafts to do blacksmithing I can decide I'm going to use that for Hedgespinning, etc. Is that correct?
    Provided you can link whatever effect you're trying to coax out of the Hedge to cracking or blacksmithing, sure.

    If the rote would ordinarily be a rote action (e.g. I've got Professional Training at 5 as a Hacker and I spend a point of Willpower) is it still a rote action when I'm Hedgespinning?
    Yup.

    Assuming I'm doing something that is an extended roll, is there any particular downside to me to using Hedgespinning?
    The Hedgespinning is a separate thing from whatever you're trying to accomplish using an extended action and those tend to be things you want done in as few rolls as possible.

    Assume I'm building a suit of chainmail. Since it isn't reasonable to build an entire suit in a few hours I have to use the 'Taking Your Time' rule as an extended action. If I've got Strength + Crafts + Specialty of 8 and a Workshop of 3 it seems like I've got 8 rolls of 9 dice (I think Hedgespinning in a Hollow is a -2 penalty) to finish the suit. Is there anything in particular that keeps me from just allocating 1 success from each roll to success on the armor and then put the rest of the successes into Hedgespinning?
    Mostly the fact that Hedgespinning is not going to get you the chainmail in any lasting fashion.

    If I'm am an Artist do I get to do a Paradigm Shift when I get 3 successes since 3 successes on a Crafts roll counts as an exceptional success for that kith?
    This is, to my understanding, one of many reasons that kiths work the way they do in this edition, yes.

    Is there any particular downside to doing this?
    It's Glamour-intensive and context-dependent and mostly concerns itself with stuff in a magical dimension where otherworldly bounty hunters have an easier time finding you.

    Some results such as banking points or creating any one goblin fruit would persist long after the activity so I'm wondering why any Changeling wouldn't do any extended rolls like that as Hedgespinning assuming they have the opportunity.
    Extended actions offer no benefit to Hedgespinning that isn't offered by just doing normal instant actions repeatedly and Hedgespinning offers no benefit to extended actions besides the potential ability to turn excess successes on a penalized action into a bonus on that same penalized action at cost.


    Resident Lore-Hound
    Currently Consuming: Hunter: the Vigil 1e

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    • #3
      Originally posted by Satchel View Post

      Provided you can link whatever effect you're trying to coax out of the Hedge to cracking or blacksmithing, sure.
      What do you mean by this? Are you saying that it isn't possible to get an effect such as 'Create any goblin fruit' while cracking? I'm not really seeing anything that supports that (but please let me know if I'm wrong. This is why I'm asking the question). In fact there's a statement about a changeling scorching open the path with pure, searing rage, which would seem to indicate making some sort of roll such as resolve + composure and then altering the hedge.

      The Hedgespinning is a separate thing from whatever you're trying to accomplish using an extended action and those tend to be things you want done in as few rolls as possible.
      Yes, I'm assuming a task where time is not of the essence.

      Mostly the fact that Hedgespinning is not going to get you the chainmail in any lasting fashion.
      I'm a little confused here. When Hedgespinning don't you take some of your successes and give them to the task being rolled and the others are used for the Hedgespinning results. If over the period of rolls I give enough successes to complete the chainmail why wouldn't I end up with a suit of chainmail (to be clear, I'm not suggesting the suit of chainmail be Hedgespun as per the Token, just a regular suit of chainmail)

      Extended actions offer no benefit to Hedgespinning that isn't offered by just doing normal instant actions repeatedly and Hedgespinning offers no benefit to extended actions besides the potential ability to turn excess successes on a penalized action into a bonus on that same penalized action at cost.
      Except it seems I can use it to do things like bank points for a later Hedgespinning roll when I might really need it or to create difficult to find Gobln Fruit.

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      • #4
        Originally posted by esampson View Post
        What do you mean by this?
        I mean that Hedgespinning does not work on a cause-and-effect process of anything-to-anything — the thing you are doing as a Hedgespinning action has to be in some reasonable fashion connected to the effect you're trying to achieve. If you want to build a bridge with Hedgespinning, you have to be doing something that literally or figuratively relates to bridge-building.

        Are you saying that it isn't possible to get an effect such as 'Create any goblin fruit' while cracking? I'm not really seeing anything that supports that (but please let me know if I'm wrong. This is why I'm asking the question).
        If you can frame cracking a computer in a fashion where it follows logically (for some definition of "logically") that this would produce a goblin fruit, sure, but a) outside of Hedge duels, Hedgespinning actions are best pursued for their own results rather than as multitasking attempts, and b) unless you're really trying to force things into your areas of expertise because you have no suitable skills for it, you'll have substantially less trouble justifying results that fit the method you're using. This is part of why teamwork is so valuable for Hedgespinning and oneiromancy.

        In fact there's a statement about a changeling scorching open the path with pure, searing rage, which would seem to indicate making some sort of roll such as resolve + composure and then altering the hedge.
        The immediate context of that example combined with the rest of the section suggests that in mechanical terms that's "for example, if you're ambushed by hobgoblins in the Thorns, you can use Hedgespinning with the ensuing combat rolls to forge a trod with paradigm shifts."

        I'm a little confused here. When Hedgespinning don't you take some of your successes and give them to the task being rolled and the others are used for the Hedgespinning results.
        Yes. The Hedgespinning results are specifically not the extended action results and extended actions force you to take Conditions to keep your progress on failed rolls. The Hedge is a place where negative Conditions are especially undesirable.

        If over the period of rolls I give enough successes to complete the chainmail why wouldn't I end up with a suit of chainmail (to be clear, I'm not suggesting the suit of chainmail be Hedgespun as per the Token, just a regular suit of chainmail)
        Because Hedgespinning penalizes the extended action and crafting chainmail is unlikely to link to things that aren't crafting chainmail without additional context.

        Except it seems I can use it to do things like bank points for a later Hedgespinning roll when I might really need it or to create difficult to find Gobln Fruit.
        As above, the surrounding context is important; banked successes only last for a scene and if you're spending a scene on an extended action you've starkly limited what context you can provide.


        Resident Lore-Hound
        Currently Consuming: Hunter: the Vigil 1e

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