Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Hedge Navigation questions

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Hedge Navigation questions

    Hello everyone,

    I apologize if this has already been asked.

    Iโ€™m a little confused about the rules for navigating the Hedge. Page 200 of the core book states that...

    ๐˜›๐˜ฐ ๐˜ฅ๐˜ฐ ๐˜ข๐˜ฏ๐˜บ๐˜ต๐˜ฉ๐˜ช๐˜ฏ๐˜จ ๐˜ฐ๐˜ต๐˜ฉ๐˜ฆ๐˜ณ ๐˜ต๐˜ฉ๐˜ข๐˜ฏ ๐˜ธ๐˜ข๐˜ฏ๐˜ฅ๐˜ฆ๐˜ณ ๐˜ข๐˜ช๐˜ฎ๐˜ญ๐˜ฆ๐˜ด๐˜ด๐˜ญ๐˜บ, ๐˜ค๐˜ฉ๐˜ข๐˜ณ๐˜ข๐˜ค๐˜ต๐˜ฆ๐˜ณ๐˜ด ๐˜ฎ๐˜ถ๐˜ด๐˜ต ๐˜ฎ๐˜ข๐˜ฌ๐˜ฆ ๐˜ฏ๐˜ข๐˜ท๐˜ช๐˜จ๐˜ข๐˜ต๐˜ช๐˜ฐ๐˜ฏ ๐˜ณ๐˜ฐ๐˜ญ๐˜ญ๐˜ด ๐˜ช๐˜ฏ๐˜ด๐˜ช๐˜ฅ๐˜ฆ ๐˜ต๐˜ฉ๐˜ฆ ๐˜๐˜ฆ๐˜ฅ๐˜จ๐˜ฆ. ๐˜›๐˜ฉ๐˜ฆ๐˜บ ๐˜ฃ๐˜ฆ๐˜จ๐˜ช๐˜ฏ ๐˜ฃ๐˜บ ๐˜ด๐˜ต๐˜ข๐˜ต๐˜ช๐˜ฏ๐˜จ ๐˜ข ๐˜จ๐˜ฐ๐˜ข๐˜ญ, ๐˜ธ๐˜ฉ๐˜ช๐˜ค๐˜ฉ ๐˜ค๐˜ฐ๐˜ถ๐˜ญ๐˜ฅ ๐˜ฃ๐˜ฆ ๐˜ข ๐˜ด๐˜ฑ๐˜ฆ๐˜ค๐˜ช๐˜ง๐˜ช๐˜ค ๐˜ญ๐˜ฐ๐˜ค๐˜ข๐˜ต๐˜ช๐˜ฐ๐˜ฏ โ€” โ€œ๐˜ ๐˜ธ๐˜ข๐˜ฏ๐˜ต ๐˜ต๐˜ฐ ๐˜ต๐˜ข๐˜ฌ๐˜ฆ ๐˜ข ๐˜ด๐˜ฉ๐˜ฐ๐˜ณ๐˜ต๐˜ค๐˜ถ๐˜ต ๐˜ต๐˜ฐ ๐˜š๐˜ข๐˜ฏ ๐˜๐˜ณ๐˜ข๐˜ฏ๐˜ค๐˜ช๐˜ด๐˜ค๐˜ฐโ€ ๐˜ฐ๐˜ณ โ€œ๐˜ ๐˜ธ๐˜ข๐˜ฏ๐˜ต ๐˜ต๐˜ฐ ๐˜ง๐˜ช๐˜ฏ๐˜ฅ ๐˜ต๐˜ฉ๐˜ฆ ๐˜ฏ๐˜ฆ๐˜ข๐˜ณ๐˜ฆ๐˜ด๐˜ต ๐˜Ž๐˜ฐ๐˜ฃ๐˜ญ๐˜ช๐˜ฏ ๐˜”๐˜ข๐˜ณ๐˜ฌ๐˜ฆ๐˜ตโ€ โ€” ๐˜ฐ๐˜ณ ๐˜ข ๐˜ฎ๐˜ฐ๐˜ณ๐˜ฆ ๐˜จ๐˜ฆ๐˜ฏ๐˜ฆ๐˜ณ๐˜ข๐˜ญ ๐˜ฐ๐˜ฃ๐˜ซ๐˜ฆ๐˜ค๐˜ต๐˜ช๐˜ท๐˜ฆ, ๐˜ญ๐˜ช๐˜ฌ๐˜ฆ โ€œ๐˜ ๐˜ธ๐˜ข๐˜ฏ๐˜ต ๐˜ต๐˜ฐ ๐˜ง๐˜ช๐˜ฏ๐˜ฅ ๐˜ข๐˜ฏ ๐˜๐˜ค๐˜ฐ๐˜ฏโ€ ๐˜ฐ๐˜ณ โ€œ๐˜ ๐˜ธ๐˜ข๐˜ฏ๐˜ต ๐˜ต๐˜ฐ ๐˜จ๐˜ฆ๐˜ต ๐˜ข๐˜ธ๐˜ข๐˜บ ๐˜ง๐˜ณ๐˜ฐ๐˜ฎ ๐˜ต๐˜ฉ๐˜ช๐˜ด ๐˜ญ๐˜ฐ๐˜บ๐˜ข๐˜ญ๐˜ช๐˜ด๐˜ต.โ€ ๐˜•๐˜ข๐˜ท๐˜ช๐˜จ๐˜ข๐˜ต๐˜ช๐˜ฐ๐˜ฏ ๐˜ช๐˜ฏ๐˜ด๐˜ช๐˜ฅ๐˜ฆ ๐˜ต๐˜ฉ๐˜ฆ ๐˜๐˜ฆ๐˜ฅ๐˜จ๐˜ฆ ๐˜ธ๐˜ฐ๐˜ณ๐˜ฌ๐˜ด ๐˜ซ๐˜ถ๐˜ด๐˜ต ๐˜ญ๐˜ช๐˜ฌ๐˜ฆ ๐˜ข ๐˜ค๐˜ฉ๐˜ข๐˜ด๐˜ฆ.

    Is this intended to be literal? Do you just walk into the Hedge, state a goal, and the Hedge (sort of) gets you there? I only ask because I know the Hedge is psychoreactive, so I can see it responding to oneโ€™s desires. About the Hedge, the book says โ€œ...It takes a wanderer in circles even while moving him closer to his goal...โ€

    If that interpretation is correct, then how do you keep anything hidden in the Hedge? Seems like you can potentially find almost anything you want just by stating the goal (and succeeding on the chase rolls, of course). I could just enter the Hedge and state โ€œI want to find my enemyโ€™s secret Hollowโ€ or โ€œI want to find a discarded token.โ€

    Also, it says that Hedgespinning shifts can be used to learn the direction of a specific location. But why bother with Hedgespinning when you can simply find what youโ€™re looking for through standard Hedge navigation? And wouldnโ€™t this render the Pathfinder Contract relatively unnecessary, as well?
    Last edited by Holy-Hell-Thats-Hot; 04-20-2021, 03:33 AM.

  • #2
    Hedgespinning or using Pathfinder to learn the direction and/or distance to what you're looking for could ostensibly be used as bonuses for Hedge navigation rolls, but those bonuses aren't formalised and that's actually a huge problem. As far as I can tell the rules are written in a way that means direction and distance doesn't matter at all unless you and/or the target is on a trod, which indeed means that Pathfinder is pretty useless in most situations.
    But I would love to be proven wrong.

    As for keeping things hidden, you kinda just have to make sure no one would look for what you're keeping hidden so that no one will stumble upon it except by accident. You could also hide it well within a location that any seekers still can't find it despite having reached the correct destination. Alternatively just hope that anyone who searches for it just isn't good enough to succeed on Hedge navigation rolls.


    Bloodline: The Stygians
    Ordo Dracul Mysteries: Mystery of Smoke, Revised Mystery of ลฝiva
    Mage The Awakening: Spell Quick Reference (single page and landscape for computer screens)

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by Holy-Hell-Thats-Hot View Post
      If that interpretation is correct, then how do you keep anything hidden in the Hedge? Seems like you can potentially find almost anything you want just by stating the goal (and succeeding on the chase rolls, of course). I could just enter the Hedge and state โ€œI want to find my enemyโ€™s secret Hollowโ€ or โ€œI want to find a discarded token.โ€
      This is always, like everything in this game, pretty vague and ultimately up to the Storyteller.

      How I work it, generally, is that you kinda search through the Hedge hoping to find what you recognize as your destination. But, like - you still have to be able to recognize it when you see it. You can search for anything, but the Hedge won't lead you there if you don't know what you're looking for.

      So if you go searching for "Fred's secret Hollow", the Hedge will lead you to something you think looks like Fred's secret Hollow. Doesn't mean it is Fred's. But it'll lead you to - or create - something that makes you go "yeah this looks like the type of place Fred would have as a secret Hollow".

      If you go searching for "A powerful and rare Token that is completely safe to use and has no owner or anyone who would miss it"... Well, the Hedge will lead you to something that sure looks like that. It'll satisfy whatever subconscious signs you were looking for that a token is powerful, rare, safe, and has no owner. Doesn't mean it is what it appears to be, however.

      Like, I dunno, if a player wanted to cheeseball it and solve a murder mystery by trying to Hedge Navigate to "A rock where the name of the killer we're trying to discover is carved" I'd definitely let them do it - and I'd have the name be just whoever they most wanted it to be, whoever their prime suspect is. Or maybe do the opposite - have the name be whoever they're most afraid it might be. Doesn't mean it is the truth - it just means that the Hedge led them to what they subconsciously were seeking.

      Comment


      • #4
        About pathfinder and hedgespinning, i consider that hedge navigation still uses also normal chase modifiers.
        Knowing in which direction is your target could be considered "Your character knows the territory intimately" for a -3 required successes bonus, not bad at all

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Holy-Hell-Thats-Hot View Post
          Also, it says that Hedgespinning shifts can be used to learn the direction of a specific location. But why bother with Hedgespinning when you can simply find what youโ€™re looking for through standard Hedge navigation? And wouldnโ€™t this render the Pathfinder Contract relatively unnecessary, as well?
          Because the main way to manifest finding what you're looking for through standard navigation is that the Hedge's own Hedgespinning produces a shift that points you in that direction, which is not reliably going to happen when "a complication occurs" has the same "cost" in Hedgespinning successes as finding non-concealed locations.

          The Hedge Navigation rules are a framing device. They're specifically used for when you're doing something other than wandering aimlessly, which means you have to have some idea of what you're looking for as the pursuit unfolds.


          More prosaically, Hollows apply their dot rating as a penalty to attempts to track or find information on their contents, the flow of time in the Hedge is inconstant, and the tighter your time constraints the less likely you are to outpace the Hedge. You could find the reclusive hob-hermit when they're out of their Hollow only to do so a month after you set out to find them, or you could fail utterly to overcome a -5 penalty and wind up deep in the Thorns with nothing more to show for your efforts than a broken leg.

          I still need to get back around to this, but ten example runs at the time of this writing should be plenty to show that traveling the Hedge tends to cost you.


          Resident Lore-Hound
          Currently Consuming: Hunter: the Vigil 1e

          Comment

          Working...
          X