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Changling 2.0 Fan Idea: Clarity Breaking Points

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  • #16
    This was the result last time I decided to sit down and just explain something about Changeling.


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    • #17
      It is also a reason I would be pleased to see you do so again. <3


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      • #18
        Well, that was a good read, coincidentally about my two favorite NWoD lines ever

        (I agree with the assessment of CtL's TVT page)


        “I am absolute, I am perfect, I am supreme. I shall be eternal. My tragedy, is that there is no other fate for me. My powerlessness was that I couldn’t subjugate my journey to the gods, while dreaming of rebirth at the end of distant time, like other pharaohs.” Ramesses II, Fate/Prototype: Argent Fragments.

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        • #19
          Okay. I will answer your arguments, looking more for this essay about Lost you need to write on this.

          Originally posted by ArcaneArts View Post
          1)Clarity is the desired state of changelings, even though it blinds them in certain regards, because it means that they are beating their trauma and seeing the world and it's circumstances as they are. Yes, they have to live a rigid lifestyle that often means risking starving themselves on glamour, denying themselves roads that are quicker to travel, etc.-they have to take steps to ensure that their vision is clear, which means avoiding the skewing factor of their fae side-the fae side is always off kilter, it's not controlled. Still, Clarity 10 means that a character can be sure of who they are, where they are, when they are - they know the their world intimately, they know who doesn't belong, they know the difference between shadows out to take them away from normal shadows, and they know what they really did. In short, on at least psychological grounds, they are safe and secure, which is what every Changeling aspires to.
          I don’t see this anything counter to the idea “your optimal Clarity is 5, not 10, because it’s about balancing your human triggers to forget horrors of Fearie on one end and fae instincts to embrace Arcadia’s wonder”.

          I have a one problem only with this sentence:

          Originally posted by ArcaneArts View Post
          they have to take steps to ensure that their vision is clear, which means avoiding the skewing factor of their fae side-the fae side is always off kilter, it's not controlled.
          Probably it’s my not good enough English here comes, but what do you mean? That fae side is always alien? Always should generate outside problems? Like I quoted from the corebook, fae-side of Lost is as much part of them, as human now, even if they don’t like to recognize it.

          It’s the same situation as was with Werewolf 1ed - all Uratha try to be more like “humans” with high Harmony, still they needed to be monsters in reality. Two polar Harmony of 2ed solve it, by making players to find their balance point.

          Originally posted by ArcaneArts View Post
          2)Harmony is not a good comparison to Clarity. Clarity is an ongoing struggle, a slow slide into madness or recovery. It has to be, that's the subject matter it's dealing with, and the narrative it's telling. Clarity is a chronicle long struggle about coming to terms with your experience and not letting them define your here and now. Anything less than Clarity 10 implies that you are still letting your trauma define who you are and what happens to you to some degree.
          If you were right, Changling would be game about forgetting your abuse in Arcadia. If those things would not defines you “here and now”, you would gladly just throw off your Seeming and Kith, and made new, “mundane” life on Earth. Because by being this half fae, seeing all those wonders of Arcadia ( even if mixed with worst nightmares ) is making you now. Yeah, you try to find your way, come out of abuse from Strangers - but it is about incorporating those events in your life also. This is all about Seemings are, at least in corebook. You need to acknowledge and move on, not forget about what comes to you. From the building and mechanics of 1ed Clairty it was more about forgetting you become half fae under your Durance, end of story. Not finding where lays your idea of what should be, and what should not be the changeling you are.

          With Harmony stuff I all agree, so no need to copy it in answer. Until this...

          Originally posted by ArcaneArts View Post
          Impermanence. Rejection of defining boundaries. Ideas that, for a Lost, are terrifying, because they embody insecurity and distrust of their worlds and themselves. The biggest threat for a Changeling is in their mind, the idea that disaster really does lie behind every corner-as another callback, again, this is why the Hedge is psychoactive, and why a changeling who is afraid of something happening is more likely to have something happen to them than one who doesn't in the Hedge. That sort of Integrity stat just doesn't work with a changeling because it is the antithesis of what a changeling really needs in their life.
          Making the your own boundaries could be made with two pole Integrity, really. Yes, you need a ideal to strife. Yes, you need to stick to it. But I don’t see how letting almost totally cut off your fae side is making it real one making boundaries. You just agreeing with communities ideal, not choosing your own. And I get from the corebook you strife to your own level of how much fae you want to be, to, poetical, take from Arcadia on to Earth.

          Originally posted by ArcaneArts View Post
          It's worth noting that all the games asides from Werewolf has this idea of balancing a human side with their monstrous side without needing to embody it within their Integrity. Humanity is a balance between the Man and the Beast, and yet Vampire would be poorer if it was like Harmony. Memory is a balance between the man in the here and the now versus the ancient monster of ruin, and yet that struggle would really fall apart if it acted like Harmony. And Cover already fluxes enough as is.
          Humanity is, mainly, about your way to pretend to be human. Beast just come when Man is absent. This is why you are “sins” almost taken from mortals. Clarity, from what I read, seems to be more about acknowledge there was bad thing done to you on the hand of Others. But it also was, partially, wondrous. And you need to incorporate this in to your new way of life, just as becoming, at least partially, human.

          I don’t know Mummy: The Curse, and I don’t like from what I see about it, so I would not talk about Memory.

          Originally posted by ArcaneArts View Post
          The only other stat that well embodies that chaotic stuck-between-two-worlds tug of war style of Integrity is Synergy.
          I could agree with that, seeing how Geist operates. Only I really feel - even from the CtL 1ed first read - that Lost in-setting are pulled by both they need to become “new” people, however also to remember the wonderful part of Arcadia. It’s mixed with worst horrors, yes, but they need to embody all of pieces of the puzzle the life and memories are now - with fae side included.

          With concentrating on one side - is it “human” or “fae” - you are denying other, becoming something partial, lower even to proper changeling. This is why Clarity 5 should be optimal, but I envisioned variety of Lost on various sides of this scale. Every one of them marks the own "boundry" in they new life as changelings.
          Last edited by wyrdhamster; 11-02-2014, 04:23 PM.


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          • #20
            Well fuck. Arc just stole me a couple of hours.

            I won't even enter the merit of the game here, but I'll note that I want to play a game under your storytelling, Arc.


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            • #21
              A quick point about why Harmony and Clarity are not a good comparison for each-other.

              Werewolf is about playing outcasts.
              Changeling is about playing abuse victims.

              Harmony is a balancing beam because you have to be part of two communities... neither of which want you as you are. You have to make compromises and deny yourself to fit into one or the other, and that brings problems.

              Clarity is about moving past your abuse; not forgetting about it or making it not happen, but coming to terms with it so you can live your life. Your soul was wounded by your Durance, and you can't help but suffer from the side effects. With high Clarity, you can tell the difference between whether that shadow over there is just a shadow, or if it's some hob come to steal you away again.

              I almost think that Clarity would do better as a set of Conditions instead of a Scale.

              So, for example, a starting Changeling might have the Shocked condition (holy crap, I MADE IT HOME.), which could progress into other "Clarity Conditions" like Amnesia (I don't remember anything about my Durance, and I don't want to remember), Stockholm Syndrome (At least in Arcadia I had a purpose, you know? And that abuse was just my Keepers way of showing they loved me.), or Abject Terror (No. No. No. No. I'm not going back in the Hedge. Fuck you, that's where THEY are. Go shove a thorn up your ass, I'm not going.)

              Maybe set them up like Agenda Conditions, except you can choose to change your Condition between sessions if appropriate.


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              So good bye, good luck, and have a nice day.

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              • #22
                Originally posted by amechra View Post
                I almost think that Clarity would do better as a set of Conditions instead of a Scale.

                So, for example, a starting Changeling might have the Shocked condition (holy crap, I MADE IT HOME.), which could progress into other "Clarity Conditions" like Amnesia (I don't remember anything about my Durance, and I don't want to remember), Stockholm Syndrome (At least in Arcadia I had a purpose, you know? And that abuse was just my Keepers way of showing they loved me.), or Abject Terror (No. No. No. No. I'm not going back in the Hedge. Fuck you, that's where THEY are. Go shove a thorn up your ass, I'm not going.)

                Maybe set them up like Agenda Conditions, except you can choose to change your Condition between sessions if appropriate.
                It would be interesting take on the subject, I must agree. But two things:

                1) It really should be more for this than 3 mentioned - maybe 5 like? What could be others?

                2) With Clarity becoming Conditions, what do we get as Integrity stat? Integrity itself, how emotional stable the changeling is?


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                • #23
                  Do we need an Integrity stat?

                  And those were examples; by necessity, there'd be a lot more (with freedom to create a more appropriate condition.)


                  I have decided, after some thought, that I don't really feel happy on these forums. I might decide to come back to post. Who knows - but right now, I'm gone.

                  So good bye, good luck, and have a nice day.

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by amechra View Post
                    Do we need an Integrity stat?
                    For the Changling itself probably not. But for the general WoD interactions - like stealing souls, riding the Vampire Beast, those kind of stuff - hell yeah we need.


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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by amechra View Post
                      Do we need an Integrity stat?

                      And those were examples; by necessity, there'd be a lot more (with freedom to create a more appropriate condition.)
                      For Changeling? Hell yes.


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                      The world is not beautiful, therefore it is.-Keiichi Sigsawa, Kino's Journey
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                      • #26
                        (Assuming the 'Hell yes' is directed towards the first sentence rather than the second.)

                        Why would having it as a number be more useful or thematic than having it be a non-numeric stat?

                        I'm not trying to be combative, I'm legitimately curious.

                        After all, reducing it down to a numerical score forces a simplification on the whole affair.

                        Is it so we have something to interact with for stuff that interacts with Integrity systems?


                        I have decided, after some thought, that I don't really feel happy on these forums. I might decide to come back to post. Who knows - but right now, I'm gone.

                        So good bye, good luck, and have a nice day.

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                        • #27
                          Well, I for one think that "repressing your trauma" and "being overwhelmed by your trauma" both make sense as the bottom of a Clarity spiral. So I can see why you might want two "poles" to be attracted to instead of one.

                          Originally posted by wyrdhamster View Post
                          The same I would see with Clarity 10 changelings, that forget they are even fae, but still working unconsciousness as one.
                          Consider the True Fae, who often take human form and view themselves as being mortal "heroes". (Or animal form. Or the form of, say, a magic sword. You get the idea.)

                          Originally posted by ArcaneArts View Post
                          2)Harmony is not a good comparison to Clarity. Clarity is an ongoing struggle, a slow slide into madness or recovery. It has to be, that's the subject matter it's dealing with, and the narrative it's telling. Clarity is a chronicle long struggle about coming to terms with your experience and not letting them define your here and now. Anything less than Clarity 10 implies that you are still letting your trauma define who you are and what happens to you to some degree.
                          My problem with this is that it reduces the game to a "win condition" of raising your Clarity to ten using XP. Rather than achieving some personal definition of "home".

                          The entire game's themes shouldn't be condensed to a single stat on the character sheet, surely.

                          Originally posted by ArcaneArts View Post
                          Harmony, on the other hand, works as a constantly flip-flopping thing with a middle point because the point of the Forsaken is to be, well, forsaken. Werewolves are creatures that need to walk the balance beam, but it's tempting to skew one way or the other because doing so gives you connection to the Flesh or to the Spirit-you can be a part of those communities.
                          Except the Lost are also defined by their desire to join one community or another - to seek out the people who understand what they've been through, and to return to their life and family - and what they really need is both (somehow).

                          They are, in fact, Lost; trying to find their Home. That seems a lot like being Forsaken.
                          Last edited by MugaSofer; 11-03-2014, 06:37 AM.

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                          • #28
                            My problem with this is that it reduces the game to a "win condition" of raising your Clarity to ten using XP. Rather than achieving some personal definition of "home".
                            I don't see how that would be a win condition. Game does not "end" with achieving Clarity 10, there is also the issue of keeping the PC at Clarity 10. Not to mention there is nothing preventing those PCs from continuing the chronicle. Overcoming trauma is one thing, but life continues and there is much ahead to experience.


                            “I am absolute, I am perfect, I am supreme. I shall be eternal. My tragedy, is that there is no other fate for me. My powerlessness was that I couldn’t subjugate my journey to the gods, while dreaming of rebirth at the end of distant time, like other pharaohs.” Ramesses II, Fate/Prototype: Argent Fragments.

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                            • #29
                              Originally posted by MugaSofer View Post
                              My problem with this is that it reduces the game to a "win condition" of raising your Clarity to ten using XP. Rather than achieving some personal definition of "home".
                              As Kat points out, keeping yourself at Integrity-analogue-10 is always pretty hard. Achieving some personal definition of home is perhaps the clearest (ha) stepping stones needed to hit Clarity 10.

                              Originally posted by MugaSofer View Post
                              Except the Lost are also defined by their desire to join one community or another - to seek out the people who understand what they've been through, and to return to their life and family - and what they really need is both (somehow).

                              They are, in fact, Lost; trying to find their Home. That seems a lot like being Forsaken.
                              That's not untrue, but the main point there is that their Home still isn't somehow a balance between Fae and Mortal.

                              Originally posted by amechra
                              Why would having it as a number be more useful or thematic than having it be a non-numeric stat?
                              I really feel like i need to put together a response to this question–it's half-formed in the back of my head–but my time ran out halfway through responding to MugaSofer, so I'll try to get to it later. I think I can sum up by saying you're overestimating how much flexibility is lost from the numerical score, and numbers make some things much clearer.... goddammit I keep making clarity puns I'm going to go now.


                              I call the Integrity-analogue the "subjective stat".
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                              • #30
                                Thanks MugaSofer for stating everything I was trying to write before.

                                Originally posted by Kat View Post
                                I don't see how that would be a win condition. Game does not "end" with achieving Clarity 10, there is also the issue of keeping the PC at Clarity 10. Not to mention there is nothing preventing those PCs from continuing the chronicle. Overcoming trauma is one thing, but life continues and there is much ahead to experience.
                                Non the less, staying at Clarity 10 in 1ed was equaled with (almos) denying yourself you are partially fea now and forever. Maybe you don't forget your abuse in Arcadia or how to use Contracts, but almost any fae like action was going you lower, unClearing your view of reality.

                                In that spirit I much more like to think as middle ground as basic best option - and many Lost finding they own "Home" on Clarity scale, how much they want to repress abuse and how to embrace being fae themselves.


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