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Changling 2.0 Fan Idea: Clarity Breaking Points

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  • wyrdhamster
    started a topic Changling 2.0 Fan Idea: Clarity Breaking Points

    Changling 2.0 Fan Idea: Clarity Breaking Points

    Notice:This is totally fan made idea, in no way official design of upcoming Changling 2ed - at least till developers don’t say this is official.


    So I prepares to run a Changling game on GMC rules / Storyteller System Revised Ruleset. As I need to somehow reconcile 1ed Clarity with GMC rules of Integrity I looked in the corebook definition of Clarity...

    Originally posted by Chagling: The Lost
    However, even if a changeling keeps his differences to himself, he still knows that he is no longer what he was. He is no longer the same as his parents, his former friends, the people he grew up around. Even if they were to accept his return (no small feat in and of itself), he is walking between the world of the fae and the human world, and is no longer truly a part of either.

    Changeling society is based, at least in part, on this principle. In order to thrive as changelings, each individual must maintain somewhat of a balance between his human side and his fae self. To ignore his human side is devastating to a changeling’s Clarity. He begins to lose any sense of what is real and what is merely the discontented grumblings and terrified shrieks of his wounded soul. Delusions, hallucinations, depression, compulsions, phobias and psychosomatic ailments all wait down that road, greedily anticipating the arrival of a changeling who eschews the mortal world too greatly. Considering the dangers that await those who have immersed themselves solely in fae matters, the logical reaction would seem to be to err in the other direction. The other extreme, however, is, if anything, more dangerous. While low Clarity changelings are in danger of losing their sanity, those who eschew the fae world entirely put themselves in danger of withdrawal-like symptoms as their fae-side slowly starves.
    It looks as something similar to other 2ed line concept I read before. Exactly, a new concept of Harmony in the Werewolf: The Forsaken 2ed. Let’s see on Harmony spoiler:

    Originally posted by Harmony spoiler
    Harmony as a trait measures how well you balance the flesh and the spirit. The idea of balance, of needing to walk between two worlds while never being fully in one or the other, is key to Werewolf. That balance is what gives the Uratha a spark of control over the changing beast within. Being about balance and about change, Harmony as a trait ties the Forsaken to Mother Luna, goddess of cycles, change, and balance.

    That perfect position of balance comes at Harmony 5. When your Harmony is higher, you’re closer to the flesh than the spirit. At Harmony 10, you can’t enter the Shadow and you need to burn Essence to shapeshift at all (except when you enter Kuruth). At Harmony 0, you’re trapped in the Shadow. You need to spend Essence and roll to not shapeshift when you face an emotional stimulus — and you’re laden with spirit bans over and above those from totem and lodge.

    (...)

    This way we can reflect the problems that werewolves face when they’re too human as well as when they’re too spirit. It’s a damn hard line to walk, though. Werewolves face two kinds of breaking point. Breaking points toward spirit reflect events that remind a werewolf of her inhumanity and supernatural nature. Breaking points toward flesh reflect things that remind the werewolf of the human life before her Change. Uratha who want to retain balance need to find ways to hit breaking points towards flesh, because they’ll hit a whole lot towards spirit just by being a werewolf. Having high Harmony makes it easier to fail breaking points towards flesh — the more human you act, the easier it is to be human. The same also applies for breaking points toward spirit. Once you overbalance, you need to work at finding that sweet spot right on the edge. As with Blood & Smoke some events are pretty much always breaking points for certain levels of Harmony, but players define other breaking points as appropriate for their characters.
    So mine idea for Clarity is simple - changlings have two kinds of Breaking Points - toward human side, and those to the fae side. Clarity 10 character is too much human, not seeing anything related to the Wyrd or Arcadia, even in front of it. He always see the Mask, nothing what’s under it - even himself, his own Mein. He totally forget his memories of Abduction, making himself excuses to his disappearing and scars he get. Even if his Keeper is still going to return for him, someday, Clarity 10 changling just don’t see him.

    On the contrast, Clarity 0 character is in grips of Wyrd logic so much, he sees Arcadia everywhere. He really thinks he is still in there, and even if not, he is let free by his Keeper in some nefarious scheme. He don’t see streets and cars - he see black marble roads and metal beasts of Fearie. Humans to him are next hobgoblins species, technology is magic of Contracts. In his mind, he never left Arcadia away. He probably thinks he never was human, only fea in Fearie.

    Like in the Werewolf’s Harmony, best for the changling is middle of Clarity 5, but it’s hard to maintain. You are enough fae-like to understand the best Gentry and have the vivids memories of your Durance in Fearie. But you are also enough human to understand Earth’s reality and clearly remember how was you before. The departure from this value impairs changlings perception of a reality and her memories.

    What do you think of this idea? What could be typical Breaking Points modifiers? What could be negatives for extreme values and bonuses for middle one?
    Last edited by wyrdhamster; 10-31-2014, 08:11 AM.

  • wyrdhamster
    replied
    So Werewolf 2ed comes out two weeks ago, I got idea to looks on the mechanics of it, to steal for Changeling games and Dichotomy. The idea under Dichotomy, basically, is to replace the Spirit part of werewolf, with Fae part for changeling. Using Touchstones mechanics the Lost character will have human (physical) Touchstone from his before Durance life ( or newly created ), and new fae Touchstone that is making him pull more in to the Others side.

    Dichotomy Breaking Points will work mostly as in Werewolf 2ed, only I need to make a list for them. There is interesting question if low or high Dichotomy characters ( on scale of 2 and lower or 8 and higher ) should have some special effects to their characters - like werewolves have harder/easier time to enter Shadow?
    Last edited by wyrdhamster; 03-16-2015, 07:43 AM.

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  • wyrdhamster
    replied
    We started to play Changeling and one of players come with idea that his Lost is selling straying in to Hedge mortals to the Goblin Merchant. Of course I thought it's a Dichotomy Breaking Point toward the Fae. Character is Dichotomy 3 character ( so rather fae-ish on start ) but seeing the Clarity original table with Kidnapping on the Clarity 3 as a sin, I suspect still it will be massive Dichotomy Breaking Point - at least for now.

    But how much the modifiers for the Resolve+Composure rolls should it constitute? In original Integrity rules, character with Integrity 3 would have -1 on start and then added -4 (???) for seriousness of situation. But with both new Harmony and Dichotomy, Breaking Points towards one edge of scale are not especially "evil", at least from the perspective of this edge. If character would be doing human stuff in Werewolf on the same level, then she would roll dice pool -5, even if she "goes up", not the "down"? For acting like a fae, PC should still roll with the negative modifier to the roll?

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  • Kat
    replied
    You understnad that in how 2ed Harmony and Dichotomy works it would easily lead to character Dichtomy 0 only by entering the Hedge, right? Each time you enter the Hedge, you get a Fae Breaking Point, even if you are after half of the scale. Even if you are at Dichotomy 1 - it still can trigger you to become raveging fae, just becuase you enter the Hedge.
    I don't know, apply common sense? Logically for Fae skewed Changelings spending longer periods in Hedge would not have such effect. Change it into entering Arcadia in such case. In contrast, being cut off from Hedge could potentially shift the trait towards human aspect.

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  • wyrdhamster
    replied
    Originally posted by Kat View Post
    You did not pay attention to that line. Given Changelings for example can be taken back by outside parties (like, I dunno, Loyalists or Privateers), such restrictions should not logically apply.
    Okay, I admit, not thought about this.

    Originally posted by Kat View Post
    And since you mentioned Dichotomy 10 Changeling would react in such intensive way, it's only another reason to warrant a breaking point.
    You understnad that in how 2ed Harmony and Dichotomy works it would easily lead to character Dichtomy 0 only by entering the Hedge, right? Each time you enter the Hedge, you get a Fae Breaking Point, even if you are after half of the scale. Even if you are at Dichotomy 1 - it still can trigger you to become raveging fae, just becuase you enter the Hedge.

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  • Kat
    replied
    Dichotomy 10 character would not want to enter Hegde, as it would resurface memory she insticivly oppose, even to murdering extrems. Dichotomy > 10 characters could eneter Hedge, I think, still.

    >regardless if they enter Hedge out of their own volition or are forced to do so by circumstances.


    You did not pay attention to that line. Given Changelings for example can be taken back by outside parties (like, I dunno, Loyalists or Privateers), such restrictions should not logically apply.

    And since you mentioned Dichotomy 10 Changeling would react in such intensive way, it's only another reason to warrant a breaking point.

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  • wyrdhamster
    replied
    Originally posted by Kat View Post
    I think entering Hedge for a person that is more aligned with human than fae aspects should be a breaking point, regardless if they enter Hedge out of their own volition or are forced to do so by circumstances.
    It was a minorest sin in orignal Clarity. In new rules it would be like -1, or even -0 Breaking Point - if character has not lower Willpower than 3 dots, I do not think this roll will change anything,

    Dichotomy 10 character would not want to enter Hegde, as it would resurface memory she insticivly oppose, even to murdering extrems. Dichotomy > 10 characters could enter Hedge, I think, and still it would not be a big thing for them.

    Also, I do not want to make it Fae Side Breaking Point, cause each time you would eneter Hedge it would lead to lowering Dichotomy, even if you would have something like Dichotomy 3 character.
    Last edited by wyrdhamster; 12-17-2014, 06:17 PM.

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  • Kat
    replied
    1. Entering the Hedge should not be Dichotomy Breaking Point. It has sense only in case of Dichotomy 10 character, but even there, it is enough "unwise" for this person to enter the Hedge in-setting, I do not see any need for this.
    I think entering Hedge for a person that is more aligned with human than fae aspects should be a breaking point, regardless if they enter Hedge out of their own volition or are forced to do so by circumstances.

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  • wyrdhamster
    replied
    Reading more corebook for my game, I notice Clarity is more often used in 1ed system than Harmony in Werewolf. There are things I think with changing when using Dichotomy and help would be appreciated:

    1. Entering the Hedge should not be Dichotomy Breaking Point. It has sense only in case of Dichotomy 10 character, but even there, it is enough "unwise" for this person to enter the Hedge in-setting, I do not see any need for this. Characters with Dichotomy <5 would very likely to spend more time in Hedge still, just because they feel they are more fae than human, and in Hedge they feel more like in Arcadia, but still on their own terrain, not of Gentry.

    2. Navigating in Hedge is based on Clarity also...

    Finally, it’s not impossible to get lost while keeping to a pathway. Every time a changeling in the Hedge chooses a goal or destination, his player must roll Clarity. Trying to navigate while not on a path incurs a –3 dice modifier on this roll.
    In Werewolf, with 2ed Harmony they cut off any rolls, as this trait is more fluctuating. For example, Rites are now based on Attribute+Skill roll, that player choose to make before the Rite itself, instead of Harmony Dice Pool, that was used in 1ed. So what to do with Clarity rolls, here and in other places?

    For now we know that Clarity here represents a memories of character - so maybe a classical rolls on Inteligence + Composure? What do you think?

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  • Nightout
    replied
    Originally posted by wyrdhamster View Post
    I got (almost) perfect example of the Dichotomy 10 changeling in pop culture - Peter Pan from Hook movie. Main character, Peter, so much forget his life in Neverland ( his Arcadia domain ) that he grow older and started family. But the Hook, his old True Fae Keeper he run away years ago - has kidnapped his children to get him back.



    Movie is in family spirit, but has very much appropriate dark overtones for the Lost game. Irony, in half of the film Peter almost forsake his family to become once again one of Lost Boys, hitting very near Dichotomy 0 level ( Probably ending on Dichotomy 1 level there ). But his love for his children make him to return from this and become both Peter Pan and their father. He probably ended as Dichotomy 5 character.

    But in our example of Dichotomy mechanics, one beginning, Peter from the movie could be ideal father and proud citizen by day - but when are nights something would make him remember his Durance under the Hook "care", he would become vicious killer, wanting to erase everything that reminds him of his trauma in Neverland. Maybe something he even would kill Wendy, to take out the thing most strongly remember? He would forget that is he who do this, but it would be his hands doing the deed, to forget about his Arcadia once and for all.

    If he would hit Dichotomy 0 in the middle of movie, he would become one of Lost Boys and forget totally about his life on Earth. He would have all the Fae magic he knew before, but would treated his family in London as weird dream - if he would even remember them. And, in long run, he would probably live in the shadow of terror he get for those years from Hook, being affraid al the time the pirate would get him - recalling all to well all the pain Hook made him in Neverland.

    What do you think on this interpretation? Is it making some strong themes in Changeling game? Is it interesting idea to run with, instead of normal Clarity?
    I think it's a great example of Dichotomy and how it could flow through with the decisions and feelings of the changeling. To adapt the game with Dich instead of clarity certainly seems doable.

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  • wyrdhamster
    replied
    I got (almost) perfect example of the Dichotomy 10 changeling in pop culture - Peter Pan from Hook movie. Main character, Peter, so much forget his life in Neverland ( his Arcadia domain ) that he grow older and started family. But the Hook, his old True Fae Keeper he run away years ago - has kidnapped his children to get him back.



    Movie is in family spirit, but has very much appropriate dark overtones for the Lost game. Irony, in half of the film Peter almost forsake his family to become once again one of Lost Boys, hitting very near Dichotomy 0 level ( Probably ending on Dichotomy 1 level there ). But his love for his children make him to return from this and become both Peter Pan and their father. He probably ended as Dichotomy 5 character.

    But in our example of Dichotomy mechanics, one beginning, Peter from the movie could be ideal father and proud citizen by day - but when are nights something would make him remember his Durance under the Hook "care", he would become vicious killer, wanting to erase everything that reminds him of his trauma in Neverland. Maybe sometime he even would kill his best friend Wendy, to take out the thing most strongly remember? He would forget that is he who do this, but it would be his hands doing the deed, to forget about his Arcadia once and for all.

    If he would hit Dichotomy 0 in the middle of movie, he would become one of Lost Boys and forget totally about his life on Earth. He would have all the Fae magic he knew before, but would treated his family in London as weird dream - if he would even remember them. And, in long run, he would probably live in the shadow of terror he get for those years from Hook, being afraid all the time the pirate would get him - recalling all to well all the pain Hook made him in Neverland.

    What do you think on this interpretation? Is it making some strong themes in Changeling game? Is it interesting idea to run with, instead of normal Clarity?
    Last edited by wyrdhamster; 11-28-2014, 01:08 PM.

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  • wyrdhamster
    replied
    I was reading lately about fetches in Autumn Nightmares and come to some ideas about (working name) Dichotomy trait.

    When changeling is merging with his fetch he will return to needed balance in his life - we will move one step closer to the Dichotomy 5. For example, if character is Dichotomy 7, she will become Dichotomy 6 - without any Conditions imposed. ( Basically, merging with fetch is "free balance action" thing. )

    Killing fetch is a Fae thing to do - because you are asserting your position as Lost and making more imposing your Durance in Arcadia on you life - so it's Breaking Point toward the Fae.

    But what would be very human response to fetch dilemma? Running away from your family? Remember, we are striving with Dichotomy 10 to the ideal of changeling that firmly believes he is human and totally deny his Durance.

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  • wyrdhamster
    replied
    I must agree with idea that name Clarity is probably bad one for the stat I envision in the long term. I will recall it, and go see what we will get there.

    Originally posted by ArcaneArts View Post
    The idea of a Harmony-esque Intergrity stat for the Lost has merits for creatures of both worlds, but the thing is is that you do have to preface it with a clear shift in focus for Changeling. The themes that tie into it are there, but they exist to push forth the major themes which directly conflict with it. You'd have to juggle them around and make it clear what the context is. It's for this reason I suggest that Wyrd actually keeps working on it, but not as Clarity, because as a central thematic point, the Harmony style clashes hard core.
    So besides of obvious "when you are not working on Clarity stat shouldn't be about clarity and Perception", were could you see it should clashes? What is entwined in the CtL with this precise definition of Clarity?

    Originally posted by ArcaneArts View Post
    If there were a handy word for the seperation of character consciousness and reader/player consciouness to use as a metaphor to an adjusted changeling's knowledge and ability to step in and out of the roles being inflicted, I would suggest it.
    Dichotomy? It could be logical in new stat naming as it is about two diffrent parts of character - "human" and "fea" sides - and they both complement each other, in reality, for the Lost.

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  • ArcaneArts
    replied
    Building on that and repeating myself...

    The idea of a Harmony-esque Intergrity stat for the Lost has merits for creatures of both worlds, but the thing is is that you do have to preface it with a clear shift in focus for Changeling. The themes that tie into it are there, but they exist to push forth the major themes which directly conflict with it. You'd have to juggle them around and make it clear what the context is. It's for this reason I suggest that Wyrd actually keeps working on it, but not as Clarity, because as a central thematic point, the Harmony style clashes hard core.

    If there were a handy word for the seperation of character consciousness and reader/player consciouness to use as a metaphor to an adjusted changeling's knowledge and ability to step in and out of the roles being inflicted, I would suggest it.

    Leave a comment:


  • Errol216
    replied
    Originally posted by amechra View Post
    Just cutting in to say that I don't really like Integrity systems being numbers in the first place. Which explains a bit.

    But otherwise, carry one good sirs and madams.
    There are downsides, namely that you see people presume that Integrity 10 is the goal of every PC and stuff like that. (That's why one of my suggestions for Promethean 2e was to flip the scale, as a demonstration that 10 doesn't always mean Ideal.)

    MugaSofer kindly provides an example of this mistake:
    Originally posted by MugaSofer View Post
    Ultimately, right now, "Clarity" 10 means looking away from the truth. It isn't maximum Clarity, it's maximum Certainty; certainty gained by sweeping the Lost under the carpet. And that's a valid endgame for a character! But still, given the game's themes, a tragic one.

    ... or they could just say that, by escaping the Fae influence on their life, you win. I can see it. It works for Promethean. Reach Clarity 10, lose your powers, rejoin humanity. But ... I dunno, it just seems like leaving some potential on the table.
    So, yeah, amechra, there are advantages to using non-numerical systems. I can concede that. I don't think the advantages are enough to switch over, but they're not non-existent.

    Anyways.

    Originally posted by MugaSofer View Post
    Well, yeah. I don't think high Clarity *should* be equated with Home, regardless of how it's represented mechanically.
    I don’t think I ever suggested that it should. The point was that the Changeling notion of Home doesn't lend itself to explaining why we should do some kind of dual-poled one-foot-in-Arcadia one-foot-in-Reality copy-paste of Harmony. You want to change the Changeling morality stat to be a dual-poled one-foot-in-the-freehold one-foot-in-the-mundane-world thing? I'd be willing to listen to that. I don't think it'd be as powerful thematically, but maybe it's possible.

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