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  • Wyrd Sorcery

    Changeling often talks about sorcerers, but it never gave any rules for playing them. Goblin Vows could help, but they were straight forward and tame.

    With the release of Blood Sorcery it became possible to correct this. I teamed up with LOOK to create Wyrd Sorcery. This isn't the safe measured sacrifices of blood sorcery, or the honest bargains of Werewolf Rituals. This is wild faerie magic, unbound by pledges or contract and tainted with magic. It is a fleeting trick played upon the world, and no less powerful for it.
    Wyrd Sorcery

    Changeling’s perceive a world where everything is, in it's own way, alive. They can bargain with the world, and through these bargains they gain supernatural powers. All Changelings use Contracts, turning to deals that have been negotiated for by the faerie race. Some Changelings make their own offers through Goblin Vows, even magic can be brought for a price. And some Changelings, they don't bargain. They weasel and trick the world around them into doing what they want.

    These Lost are feared and respected, for they are Sorcerers.


    Wyrd Sorcery is rated one to five, and costs new dots x 7. Each dot of Sorcery comes with a free dot in one Tale, and a Sorcerer can never have more dots in any Tale than they have in Wyrd Sorcery.

    Tales

    The power of sorcery is to weave Tales, and to trick the world into playing along. There are four different kinds of tales that a Sorcerer can master, each with their own powers and themes. Tales may also be mixed to create new Sorcery that no single Tale could generate.

    Tales cost new dots x 5. Each of the Elemental Courts finds that one form of Tale is closest to their ideals, and so may be purchased by members for new dots x 4 instead. Summer (Blessing), Winter (Transmogrification), Autumn (Hexing), Spring (Fantasy).

    Blessing (Intelligence): can make a meek man mighty, and a coward courageous. It protects, enhances and empowers. It can enlighten the minds of beasts and grant unnatural properties to tool. Blessings are more than increased ability, they are tales about the dragonsalyer who won against impossible odds, or the simple fool who outwitted the king’s traitorous chancellor. Common twists saddle the blessings with secret flaws, or cause them to grow out of the users control. Fortune may become too great, or a shield may become useless in the face of a wooden sword.

    One Dot: Can increase the value of existing merits, attributes, skills and equipment at +1 (dot or bonus) per point of potency. Or mitigate existing penalties or flaws (also one-to-one with potency). Can grant 9-again. [Examples: A sword might be made sharper, a man's eye sight more precise. Wealth, beauty and talent accentuation.]

    Two Dot: Can grant brand new skills and merits. Granting talent from no where, or causing fortune and beauty to spring from nothingness. Or grant an animal intelligence. Can grant 8-again. [Examples: A man may come into incredible wealth. A lad may find, with the silver blade in hand he is a courageous knight. A raven may gain the cunning and insight of a man.]

    Three Dot: Can grant unusual properties, or remove existing flaws and faults. Make animals speak and act as men. Can grant the Rote quality. [Examples: like a hat that makes you a better swordsman, or a sword that makes you prettier. A dog that can speak English with a slight German accent]

    Four Dot: Can bestow impossible boons and abilities, intelligence to inanimate objects, and automatic successes. [Examples: Flying carpets. Swords that spray lightning. A sentient computer. An arrow that never misses]

    Five Dot: Creates a Dynamic Blessing, one who's exact functions shift and change based on the objective for which it was made. [Example: A maiden blessed with eternal beauty might gain striking looks, then suddenly shift to wealth for fine cloths. Then, when a fire breaks out, resistance to burning to protect her image (though she might still choke to death, and emerge a gorgeous corpse).]



    Fantasy (Wits): Fantasy is the art of creation from nothing. It can generate objects, structures, and even creatures from nothing. It can also warp the world at large, bending and connecting spaces, creating elements and cataclysm, and even adjusting the flow of time. Common twists render fantasy creations are fleeting or fragile. Cause them to feel artificial or hollow, and grant them insidious natures and personalities.

    One Dot: Can manipulate light and sound, or make space/time appear larger or smaller. [Examples: Illusory party, including the sounds of talking and shadows at the windows. A hallway that it longer than it seems.]

    Two Dot: Can create simple phantasms, inanimate objects and tools, or shrink/stretch space. Can create illusions with separate Meins and Masks. Can create illusions that react to stimulus in a simple, mindless manner. [Examples: A phantasmal car that runs on water. A phantom cottage. A room in which everything moves more slowly. A bag of holding. An illusion that shows what your rival is doing, in realtime.]

    Three Dot: Can create complex phantasms of living things. Connect or disconnect spaces, or alter specific parts of timeflow. [Examples: A phantom stallion, house which all doors lead back inside. A castle in which nothing ages.]

    Four Dot: Can create thinking phantasms which grow, age and react to stimulus. Connect or disconnect distant spaces. Remove entire aspects of time or make time flow in exceptionally odd ways. [Examples: A phantom knight to ride atop the stallion, a gate that leads halfway across the world. A forest where it is always night.]

    Five Dot: Create a Dynamic Fantasy, one that changes and adjusts to meet its parameters. [Example: A phantasmal castle is made where a party is to take place when guests arrive. As they do the castle creates thinking phantasmal servants and grows in size to accommodate their expectations. Regardless of how long the guests stay it only lasts one night.]



    Hexing (Presence): can make a mighty man weak, and a hero into a coward. It lays curses of ill fortune and poor health, and corrupts other magics. They lessen the mind, reducing men to beasts and seed madness and hallucination. A sorcerer who has mastered Hexing is scary indeed, for the curses she lays are spiteful things, that twist and fight back when their victims seek a solution. Common twists may cause the curses to grant unforeseen boons, or to spread from the target to their friends.

    One Dot: Can decrease, but not remove, existing merits, and bonuses. Or exacerbate existing penalties or flaws. [Example: A brilliant driver can barely control his vehicle. A once rich man falls to poverty. A speakers occasional stutter becomes almost uncontrollable]

    Two Dot: Can decrease skills, remove merits, or grant flaws, derangement, and negative states. [Example: A woman gains a sudden phobia of needles. A debating candidate stumbles over his every word. The beautiful princess finds others now see her as mundane. Cause someone to fall ill.]

    Three Dot: Remove skills entirely, reduce attributes. Add unfortunate properties to objects and people. Cause spells to twist. [Example: A sword cannot cut. A man forgets how to use computers. The strong become weak. Cause someone to never wake from slumber.]

    Four Dot: Removes successes from rolls, grant impossible negative properties, or reduce minds and thoughts. [Example: Make a gun that never hits its target. Pen that causes the writer to take lethal damage. Give a man the mind of a beast.]

    Five Dots: Create a Dynamic Curse that adapts to cause maximum misery. [Example: A witch curses a man never to never find companionship. First the curse gives him amnesia, causing him to forget his home and friends. When he finally finds them it makes him unattractive and cruel to drive them away. Then when his loneliness leads to workaholism and promotions, the curse destroys his wealth just as it starts to attract sycophants.]
    Last edited by The Kings Raven; 11-01-2013, 05:24 PM.


    “There are no rules. Only Principles and natural laws.” - Promethius
    My Homebrew no longer fits in a signature, you can find an index of it here.
    Full length fan-books I contributed too: Princess: the Hopeful, Leviathan: the Tempest, Dream Catchers

  • #2

    Transmogrification (Manipulation): Can make objects and creatures believe they are something else, effectively changing them into something new. Straw can be persuaded that it is really gold, and a stout door could be made to believe it is the thinnest silk. A man can be made a toad, or a cat made into a prince. Common twists cause the objects to recall their true nature, golden straw may still nourish goats, a frog prince might still be able to speak. Worse twists can subsume the original object, or propagate the change out of control.

    One Dot: Shape and re-size existing objects. Alter cosmetic aspects of materials. [Example: Enlarge a doll house to real size. Cause cloth to shine and glitter like gold.]

    Two Dot: Alter objects state and composition, Alter the cosmetic aspects of living things. [Example: Make paper as hard a steel. Cause a woman's hair to grow and change color.]

    Three Dot: Grant objects life and a semblance of intelligence (Blessing is required for true intelligence), change living into different natural creatures. [Example: A broom grows arms and carries water from a well. Turn a prince into a toad, or a swan into a maiden]

    Four Dot: Turn objects into animals and vice versa. Change creatures into fantastic fantasy beasts. [Example: Turn a man into an armchair. Turn a Dog into Cerberus.]

    Five Dot: Create a Dynamic Transformation that twists and bends to best serve its intent. [Example: The Sorceress always desires the "best form for the occasion". At first the spell keeps her own beautiful form, though younger and more fit, then she walks into a gentleman's club and immediately changes to a dashing man. Suddenly a fight breaks out and she sprouts wings and claws and becomes a great dragon. Then, as her enemies surround her, she dissolves into a fine mist.]



    Tales may also be fused, using multiple different aspects at a time to create a spell no single Tale could generate. Sorcerer's have no limit on how many different Tales they can use in a spell, nor their dot value. However, a spell with a five dot Tale involved only dynamically manipulates the aspects of the spell associated with that Tale.

    Step One: The Story

    Before the Sorcerer even begins creating magic, the player must define the effects of the spell, including the application of any spell factors and the spell's Doom.

    Factors:

    Area of Effect is used for spells that have power over a specific loction, or a defined area. Unlike most ritual powers Fae Sorcery does not measure itself in exact space, but instead in abstract sizes and areas. As a general rule if the area targeted can be expressed as a discreet concept like "Miss Madagale's living room" or "Alice Glass' Hollow" then it's a valid target. The numbers below are merely rough approximates.
    Radius | Defined Volume | Target Number
    One Traget | None (basic success)
    A single chamber | +1 Success
    A small house | +2 Success
    A mansion | +3 Success
    A whole estate | +4 Success
    An entire town | +5 Success*+
    * Affecting larger areas continues to increase at +2 successes and scales at a rate the storyteller finds appropriate.
    Activation is used to create spells which fire on certain triggers.
    Trigger | Target Number
    Immediately | None (basic success)
    Improbable | +1 Success
    Infrequent | +2 Successes
    Common (or trivial to trigger on demand) | +3 Successes

    An activation trigger which can affect anyone, such as a potion, must have a range of touch. Other spells can be triggered at longer ranges.
    Degradation is used to determine how often the spell twists after its casting.
    Duration | Target Number
    Each Scene | None (basic success)
    Each Chapter | +2 Success
    Each Story | +4 Successes
    Each Chronicle* | +8 Successes
    *This time frame is optional, and intended for Storytellers who have Chronicles set within one static world
    Number of Targets is used for spell's effect that must be applied equally to separate Individuals.
    Number of Targets | Target Number
    One | None (basic success)
    Two | +1 Success
    Four | +2 Success
    Eight | +3 Successes
    Sixteen | +4 Successes*
    *Add an additional success to the target umber per x2 targets.
    Potency represents the strength of the spell; it is used whenever the spell has an incremental effect. Spells that add or subtract dice from dice pools use Potency to determine the dice by which to modify the pools. Spells that inflict damage use Potency to determine how severe the wounds are.
    Potency | Target Number
    1 | None (basic success)
    2 | +1 Success
    3 | +2 Success
    4 | +3 Success
    5 | +4 Success*
    *Add an additional success to the target number per die or wound.
    Range is used whenever the Sorcerer wishes to affect a target further away than what she can touch. “Touch” range rituals require the Sorcerer to make physical contact with the target. In combat, this requires the sorcerer to touch the subject with her open palm (see “Touching an Opponent”, page 157 of The World of Darkness) during the scene where the final roll is completed. The Spell then takes effect against the target.
    Range | Target Number
    Touch | None (basic success)
    Visual | +1 Success
    Intimate*| +1 Success
    Known | +2 Successes**
    Acquainted | +3 Successes**
    Encountered | +4 Successes**
    Described | +5 Successes**
    *Targets with whom the Changeling has a pledge are considered Intimate
    **Requires the target's true name or a piece of the target's physical substance.
    Size is used to affect very large targets; a basic success is sufficient to achieve a spell with power over a subject of size 20 or less. If multiple subjects are targeted by the spell, the size of the largest one is used for this factor.
    Size | Target Number
    20 | None (basic success)
    21-30 | +1 Success
    31-40 | +2 Success
    41-50 | +3 Success
    51-60 | +4 Success*
    *Add an additional success to the target number per additional 10 size.



    Step Two: Mitigation

    Wyrd Sorcery is a chaotic and unpredictable thing, many Sorcerers dedicate a lot of time to finding ways to keep their spells in control. Mechanically speaking these actions remove Successes from the Twist's roll (see step four).


    Decelerations: The Sorceress publicly declares what she will do, and how her spell will work. All who witness the deceleration become part of the Tale, usually it's audience, and their understanding of the tale they are in helps impose order on the chaos of faerie magic.
    Effect: The number of witnesses present subtract successes from the Twist. By default only witnesses with a natural ability to see through the mask or access to supernatural powers provide this benefit (Changelings, Ensorcelled Mortals, Other Supernaturals), though a sufficiently large number of mortals can help.

    One Witness: -0 Successes
    Several Witnesses: -1 Successes
    A Large Crowd of Witnesses: -2 Successes
    One of the Witnesses is Gentry*: -1 Success
    A Very Large Number of Mortals**: -1 Success
    *Actors, Props, Wisps, and Realms all count as a Gentry being present
    **At least 100 people, preferably much more

    Preparations: Sorcerers can ease their magic into the world. By creating circumstances in which the spell's effects are the logical result (in a narrative sense) the magic becomes less likely to twist.

    The Storytelller should measure the difficulty of the tasks used to prepare a spell according to the scale used for pledge endeavours.

    Lesser: -1 Success
    Medial: -2 Successes
    Greater: -3 Successes

    Conditions: Sorcerers can add conditions to their spells, limiting when and how often their effects manifest. By default Spells are assumed to manifest at all times, but by applying conditions the Sorcerer limits the spell, thus making it more "interesting" to the story and less likely to twist.
    Effect: The probability and frequency of the trigger alters the Twist. How often a Condition should manifest is up to the Storyteller, but assume that any condition the player can easily control is at most "common",

    Common: -1 Success
    Uncommon: -2 Successes
    Rare: -3 Successes

    Pledges: Every story follows it's characters, and the Tales woven by Wyrd Sorcery are no different. If the Sorcerer has a pledge with the target(s)* that binds her to act in line with the Tale he wove then the Pledge will help impose order.
    Effect: The pledge decreases the twist successes by the highest component of the pledge (treating negative components as positive). However if the target breaks the pledge immediately remove any mitigation by the pledge and recalculate Twists. If the pledge Is somehow annulled then do not reduce the mitigation unless the target breaks his Pledge Tasks (which no longer comes with Sanctions).

    *All initial targets must be within the pledge otherwise the mitigation does not occur.

    Titles: There is one method of mitigation, and only one, that will guarantee the spell never Twists. That is to manifest a Title as the spell. Doing so is simple, attaining the Title is not.

    Under most circumstances the doom of a spell will not harm a Title in any way, though ending the spell in such a way as to make it's story meaningless has similar effects to besting an Actor in combat. An example would be triggering a hex's doom before the victim even begins to suffer.

    In practice this means that the Storyteller can create an entire plot around a single spell, just as an entire plot could form around a True Fae wondering around town. A True Fae should not pull out Titles-mitigated spells when they are cornered, or at any point in the middle of a story. In such cases an Actor should use the regular rules for Wyrd Sorcery with the same limits as a (very powerful) Changeling.
    Last edited by The Kings Raven; 08-30-2014, 04:10 AM.


    “There are no rules. Only Principles and natural laws.” - Promethius
    My Homebrew no longer fits in a signature, you can find an index of it here.
    Full length fan-books I contributed too: Princess: the Hopeful, Leviathan: the Tempest, Dream Catchers

    Comment


    • #3

      Step Three: The Incantation

      The first step to weaving a Tale is the incantation. The Sorcerer uses a silvered tongue and occult principles to tell a Tale, tricking the world itself into playing along with the story. He might literally tell a story, sing a ballad, weave a tapestry, arrange flowers or brew fruits according to occult metaphors, the possibilities are extraordinary. First he pays the spells cost, one point of Glamour per dot in the highest Tale used in the spell. He rolls [Tale + the Tale's associated Attribute + Occult] as an extended action.

      Over the following turns the Sorcerer continues to manipulate the world itself, rousing it to action. Each Increment he continues to roll that same dicepool, each time accruing more successes. However even sorcery has it's limits, one cannot accrue more successes than he has dice in the pool he is rolling. However, there are a few factors that can affect the roll.

      Time per Roll:
      1 Minute: -3 dice
      10 Minutes: -1 dice
      1 hour: +0 dice


      Other Modifiers:

      The roll takes place on all-hallows eve: +2
      The roll takes place during Autumn: +1
      The roll is within the Witching Hour (between 12PM and 1AM): +2

      Players should note that Seeming or Kith blessings that enhance Attributes do not apply to Wyrd Sorcery rolls. Seeming or Kith blessings that enhance Occult can be used for Wyrd Sorcery. Seeming or Kith bonuses do not increase the maximum number of successes.


      Finally, spell complete. The Changeling spends a single point of Willpower and thrusts it into existence. It is at this moment that he must declare the spell's doom.

      Step Four: The Doom

      Every spell created by Wyrd Sorcery has it's doom, the condition in which the spell ends. The Doom is chosen by the sorcerer and until the doom comes to fruition that spell just will not end. Most Sorcerers choose dooms that are likely to be fulfilled long before a spell goes completely out of control.

      The choice of doom is not entirely arbitrary. It must be related to the spell in such a way to give it a satisfying conclusion. A spell which creates wealth could have a doom which is fulfilled when the target uses his wealth for a certain task, or learns a moral lesson about wealth (which may or may not require him to loose his new fortune). As an absolute rule the Doom can never involve direct harm to anyone other than the sorceress herself.

      Mechanically speaking every time the Degradation time expires the Tale gains an additional point of Twists. These Twists often push the Tale towards it's conclusion, and can even Twist the doom into something easier to fulfil. By the time a Tale has gone completely Out of Control the it is nearly impossible to avoid fulfilling the doom for more than a few hours. Either because the magic forces the doom to occur, or because the doom itself has twisted into something so trivial it's bound to happen.

      Step Five: Twists in the Tale

      Changelings run their magic on contracts and deals, the terms are rigidly defined. If you want to know why this is you only have to look at what happens when you use faerie magic without a contract. Wyrd Spells are stories woven into reality, each with its own little sub plot and quirks. And, like stories, spells also have Twists, unexpected turns that not even the caster can predict. They can manifest when the spell is cast (especially without proper mitigation), or over time as it endurs. To look at the Twists in the Tales woven by sorcerers. Twists are:

      Neutral: Twists have a way of leaving the spell no stronger or weaker than it started, the Twists that aid the spell balance out those that hinder, leaving the spell no better or worse off than before, but far more whimsical. Other Twists don't affect the primary target of the spell but cause the magic to spread outwards, sowing chaos. They are not inherently bad or good, just interesting. A spell is just as likely to twist in a positive way as it is in a negative one, especially if that positive twist makes a scene less certain or more exciting.

      Revealing: Wyrd sorcery deceives the world into following a tale, it is a fragile lie and the truth can often shine through. A Tale about straw spun into gold, for example, will often Twist to reveal the reality of the straw beneath the lies. The gold may burn like straw, or it may be a nourishing meal to animals, without sacrificing any properties of gold.

      Chaotic: While a knowledgeable Sorcerer may know what kind of Twists are possible or likely, it is impossible to predict which ones will actually occur. Neither occult knowledge or prophecy can accurately predict a Twist. Rather than simply being inaccurate, Twists have been known to exploit the wording or symbology of prophecies in whatever way creates the most interesting story.

      Interesting: Wherever possible a Twist attempts to make the story more interesting. If a Sorceress turns herself into a vicious dragon, fearing a threat that exists only in her mind, then the Twists will spin a more interesting story than a dragon waiting in it's Hollow for a few months. Perhaps the sorceress will be consumed by a dragon's greed and begin raiding hobgoblin gold mines, or perhaps a Twist will cause her to exhale a constant stream of smoke that leads a valiant knight to her location.

      Inevitable: A tale woven by Wyrd Sorcery will always Twist if it lasts long enough, this is inevitable. The only way to avoid Twists is to weave Tales that end quickly enough.

      Often tie back to the sorcerer: A Sorcerer is always a part of the story created by their own magic, no matter how carefully they craft the effects to avoid themselves at least some of the Twists will include them.

      The roll
      Twists have a dicepool equal to the [Successes of the Incantation + the Potency] (Yes, this means Potency is effectively counted twice). For this reason many Sorcerers often favour small weaker spells where the Twists are entirely removed (at least until degration begins) through mitigation tactics. Others just raise up powerful, wild, magic and throw it in the general direction of their target.

      One Success: Negligible Variance, Variance that has no real impact on the spell unless someone is deliberately taking advantage of it. Perhaps the figment is the wrong color, or only one edge of the blade is blessed.

      Two Successes: Minor Variance, a quirk that could really upset the spell if the caster doesn't account for it. A disguise is a mirror image of the target, the blessing to athletics does not affect lifting.

      Three Successes: Major Variance, a real major unintended effect. Curse spreads to the target's family and friends, the man turned into a toad can still speak like a human.

      Four Successes: Severe Variance, at this point the spell probably causes as many or more problems than it solves (though if it solves her problem and creates problems for other people then the sorceress might not care). The spell that turns the user into a wolfman also causes him to loose his mind in rage, an illusion of the character develops its own mind and seeks to usurp him.

      Five Successes: Out of Control, the storyteller completely gains control of the spell and its factors. It still functions as intended, but likely in a way that causes change or won ton destruction to potentially anything outside it's direct intention.

      Last edited by The Kings Raven; 11-01-2013, 05:26 PM.


      “There are no rules. Only Principles and natural laws.” - Promethius
      My Homebrew no longer fits in a signature, you can find an index of it here.
      Full length fan-books I contributed too: Princess: the Hopeful, Leviathan: the Tempest, Dream Catchers

      Comment


      • #4
        Wyrd Sorcery Cheat Sheet
        • Step One: The player chooses the Spell effects, applies factors and decides upon the spell's doom. (OOC)
        • Step Two: The Sorcerer sets up any mitigation factors. (IC)
        • Step Three: The Sorcerer pays costs and rolls to cast the spell. (IC)
        • Step Four: The Storyteller secretly rolls to see how much the magic Twists, and applies and mitigation factors. (IC)
        • Step Five: The spell takes effect, and possibly goes out of control.




        The Limits of Power

        Wyrd Sorcery is strong, sometimes extremely so, but one must never forget that accessing that strength comes at a cost. No Sorcerer can maintain an unlimited amount of magic, eventually the manifold story they weave will sweep them up and carry them away to fates beyond their control.

        Mechanically a Sorcerer can safely have [Wyrd+1] spells active at any time. Every spell cast beyond that limit automatically gains +1 Twist per spell over the limit (including itself). This occurs after mitigation and thus can only be avoided by swearing the spell into a Title.

        Unlike many forms of magic, Wyrd Sorcery cannot directly harm other people, though it can invoke circumstances that will cause harm. For instance, a Sorcerer cannot shoot a lightning bolt (because it is instantaneous and has no meaningful duration), but can invoke a thunder storm that is destined to strike them; (then carry on striking other things).

        Wyrd Sorcery cannot affect objects made of iron, nor can they create iron, fake or real. Nor can they be used to alter template inherent traits of Changelings or other supernaturals (so a curse cannot cause a Vampire to be unable to feed, or a Werewolf unable to change).

        Resisted or Contested

        Supernatural power in World of Darkness use two different types of resistance rules, as does Wyrd Sorcery. In general any effect that is all or nothing (mind control, sleep spell, transformation), and who's success would immediately have an enormous impact on the target, is contested (rolls Resistance Attribute + Power Stat). Where as incremental spells (penalties, small changes, etc.) or those for which successes are counted towards the effect, are resisted (subtract [Resistance Attribute] from the roll).

        Twisting another's magic

        When Sleeping Beauty was cursed to prick her finger and die, one good faerie still had her gift to give. She chose that the princess would not die, but instead fall into sleep.

        You too can Twist another's magic.

        Intentionally causing another Sorcerer's spells to Twist requires three dots in either Blessing or Hexing, depending on whether you wish to make the spell kinder or harsher upon it's target. There are however a few special rules that must be taken into account:

        No Sorcerer can intentionally Twist their own spells; this rule is absolute.

        A Sorceress can add Twists, but cannot modify existing ones.

        A spell that Twists another spell always has the same doom: "When the target spell meets it's doom".

        A spell that Twists another spell can in itself Twist; roll as normal to see if the spell Twists when it is cast, but only use the origonal spells factors when determining when additional Twists arise. The Storyteller is still encouraged to think of both spells when defining how the new combined spell Twists.


        Storyteller's Note: The Joys of Twisting

        Changeling Sorcery is strong. Strong enough that, left unchecked, it can alter the entire course of a game. Fortunately, twists are there to help. No matter how careful a player is with their spells, or how much they try to mitigate, twists are bound to occur. This is the best time to deter "power casting" as well as to remind the characters that their magic isn't entirely theirs.

        Twists can be great for slightly shifting the purpose of the spell, or adding a disadvantage that makes it much harder to manage. If they like to game in easy dooms, perhaps twist it into something more difficult. If they've got a super powerful sword, maybe the blessing suddenly jumps to whatever weapon the sword clashes with. Hell twists can even be a great way to get the characters OUT of trouble, bending villains magic or even their own to be slightly more/less helpful in a time of need can be a good way to lessen the next time their "turn that guy into stone" spell, causes the target to become a golem of living stone, as opposed to a helpless statue.

        One things to remember though, Twists are NOT intended to derail the current story. And while it is possible for a twisted spell to spawn a chapter of its own, it is generally better when the twists tie back into the plot. Take some creative liberties when needed, its the storytellers prerogative after all. If a scene is sufficiently interesting without a twist, bank that point for later. Twists also don't need to occur EXACTLY at the start of a Scene/Chapter/Story, they can manifest halfway through at the most dramatic moment.

        The bottom line here is: Twists are there to make the story better, and to deter power gaming the system. So use them to have fun, not simply as punishments or rewards.


        Sample Spells

        Of Woven Gold:

        Transform clothing into radiant gold, granting the wearer striking looks as well as two points of armor. To Mitigate this the Caster forms a Pledge with the Clothing's recipients (factor 2), and Announces The spell aloud

        Cost: 2 Glamor
        Requirements: Blessing 2 (New Merit and Property), Transmogrification 1 (Alter A Single Aspect)
        Factors: Potency +4 (Two dots of Merits and Two points of Armor), Targets +2 (Several Pieces of Clothing), Interval +2 (Every Chapter)
        Doom: The spell ends when all the clothing is soaked with water.
        Twist Pool: 12 Dice
        Mitigation: -3

        Sample Twists: The Clothing inflicts on those around it an avaricious desire to own/wear it. The wearer(s) of the clothing slowly turn to gold themselves. The gold brightly reflects sunlight, making it blinding to look at during the day.

        The Loyal Steed

        Summons a phantasmal stallion, with the mind of a man. To mitigate this the condition is added that the Stallion only exists at night (Nontrivial, -1)

        Cost: 3 Glamor
        Requirements: Fantasy 3 (Complex being), Blessing 3 (Heightened Attribute + Unusual Property)
        Factors: Potency +3 (Increased Intelligence + upgraded thought category), Size +1 (It's a large horse), Interval +4 (Story)
        Doom: The Full Moon crests overhead.
        Twist Pool: 11 dice
        Mitigation: -1 Successes

        Sample Twists: The Stallion falls in love with someone else (not the rider). Instead of vanishing during the day the Stallion becomes solid black, wild and violent. The doom changes such that, not only must the Moon be full, but the light must touch the stallion, which makes every effort to avoid its doom.

        The Plot of Once Upon a Time

        Curses an entire freehold of Changelings so that they all believe themselves to be human (including illusionary human Meins) and are cursed to never know love. Finally time remains still (defined as nothing significant ever changing) yet has the semblance of normal progression. The enormous power of this spell can only be controlled by a Title.

        To truly recreate the plot of Once Upon a Time this spell must have a single twist - that the chosen one brings time with her. This is possible despite the use of a Title because the Twist was created by another sorceress. (Henry simply was not a target of the spell.)


        Requirements: Hexing 5 (Dynamic curse),Fantasy 4 (exceptionally unusual timeflow), Transmogrification 1 (cosmetic changes).
        Factors: Potency +15 (cosmetic change + amnesia + unatural timeflow + ten points assigned to dynamic effects), Area +5 (an entire town). Number of targets (adjust based on the freehold's size).
        Doom: Two people affected by the spell experience true love's kiss.
        Twist Pool: N/A
        Mitigation: All Successes

        Sorcery Ktihs

        New Kith: Fairest Enchantresses

        Stolen to serve as vessel rulers to an Arcadian overlord; the fairest of them all were taught deeper secrets of Arcadian magic, their power and position was enough for many to escape their Keeper's clutches.

        Fairest Enchantresses return to earth bearing the secrets of Noble Magic. They can spend Glamour to increase their dicepool for Wyrd Sorcery on a 1 for 1 basis, and in addition they may add their Striking Looks bonus (to a maximum of +2) to all Sorcery rolls.

        New Kith: Wizened Hag

        In Faerie these slaves tended to the cauldrons and spinning wheels of Arcadian sorcerer's above such menial labour. Some of them stole enough of the magic they helped create to escape through the thorns.

        Working unseen at the feet of skilled faerie sorcerer's the Hags absconded with the secrets of Spellcraft. A Hag may spend Glamour to increase Occult and Sorcery rolls on a one for one basis, and gains an additional die when using Sorcery on behalf of a paying customer.


        Optional Modified Rules
        Wyrd Sorcery was written after Changeling: the Lost. Consequently there some material that might benefit from being redefined to tie into the Sorcery system. The following optional rules are presented:
        The Autumn Court's one dot mantle provides a bonus to Sorcery, instead of Contracts.

        The Witchtooth Kith Blessing applies to Hexes, not Contracts. Note that regardless of whether you update the Kith Blessing, a Witchtooth's ability to spend Glamour on Occult does apply to Sorcery.

        The Office of the Vizeral Council requires 12 dots in Tales instead of Contracts; and a replacement Privilege for The Clausmaker's Boon: They apply an automatic mitigation factor equal to their monarch's Mantle -2 on all Wyrd Sorcery used on behalf of their duties.
        Last edited by The Kings Raven; 11-01-2013, 05:28 PM.


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        • #5
          Hedge Witches

          On her way to an unhappy betrothal a young woman shares a crust of bread with a disfigured beggarwoman, the beggar promises to repay her kindness with tutelage in the woman's arts: Home-making, childbearing, cooking, witchcraft. A valiant knight spends three days locked in battle with a terrible dragon, finally on the eve of defeat the dragon offers it's greatest treasure in exchange for it's life. Following cryptic hints a scholar calls up the devil at the crossroads, and sells his soul for power.

          The magic of Faerie isn't unique to the grey neighbours, the most powerful faeries can grant the gift of witchcraft; as a reward, a payment, or just so their enemies will leave them alive. Being connected only by the fact a Faerie chose to grant them, or their ancestor, magic means that Hedge Witches seem like they'd have little in common; however their shared magic does lead to some common trends.

          Experienced Hedge Witches are often rather eccentric. They think in terms of riddles and place a lot of weight in stories, favouring living stories like rumours, gossip, folklore and old wives tales over dry books. This is not fae madness, or wilful obtuseness. Rather, after a lifetime of working with Wyrd Sorcery the style of thought needed to weave Tales and prepare for Twists leaks into everyday life. A Witch who when asked for advice responds with a cryptic rhyming phrase isn't trying to make things harder, it is simply that one some level she finds it natural to think of the problem as a Hex, with a doom to be puzzled out and fulfilled.

          Reputation is another common trait, tales are woven from emotions and Glamour. Whether they're loved, respected or even feared, a Hedge Witch likes to ensure the people around them have strong feelings. If they live a more transient lifestyle or have fewer social links then they try to craft strong first impressions in place of a reputation. This however ties into a darker trait common to Hedge Witches, the fear of persecution.

          Even when a Hedge Witch doesn't want to hurt anyone, her magic is wild and cannot be fully controlled. Perhaps because stories are more interesting with conflict, perhaps because persecution is so common in stories about witches, Twists can often make a Hedge Witch enemies. Long lived witch families often raise their children on stories of an ancestor who burned at the stake. Some respond by isolating themselves, some adopt a travelling lifestyle to stay one step ahead of trouble, others embed themselves deep among a small insular community who can hide them when witch finders come around. Even if they're not actively mistrustful of strangers, most Hedge Witches try to make sure their reputation stays local and make sure it discourages any would be witch finders.

          Becoming a Hedge Witch

          Hedge Witches are made or born. To be a hedge witch requires a pledge boon of Witchcraft; this can only be granted by one of the True Fae and is worth +3. A Witchcraft boon is essentially the next level of Ensorcelment, and includes all the features of an Ensorcellment boon. It is also possible to steal witchcraft, magic can often by found as a physical object in a faerie's castle or a dragon's horde. This is rare, as it requires surviving a trip to Arcadia.

          Hedge Witches can also be born, sometimes this is a direct result of the Wyrd “blessing” a child for reasons known only to itself, but mostly a Hedge Witch is born under a Pledge with a duration of generational. The Wyrd's blessings and stolen magic can also be hereditary, it depends on how much magic was stolen. Many long lived “witch families” have passed down their secrets for generations.

          The Wyrd can grant someone witchcraft later in life but this is extreemly rare. Sometimes after being accused of witchcraft a person is "blessed" with actual powers (and usually some occult knowledge). Most use their powers for revenge, but this is not universal.

          Sidebar: My Ancestor Was

          The rules for a generational pledge limit it to one generation per dot of the otathtaker's Wyrd, while an eternal pledge always remains with the signer.

          The rules for Hedge Witches assume that if the True Fae can create eternal and generational pledges, they can probably create some combination of the two: If you're really lucky (or unlucky) you might a generational pledge with no limit. If thing's aren't quite so extreme you might get a pledge that lasts for Wyrd times ten, or Wyrd times one hundred generations.

          The short version is that if you want to say you're descended from a medieval witch burnt at the stake or you're one of the last living heirs to genuine Druidism, feel free. As a typical game doesn't go beyond a single generation it doesn’t really matter what the rules say is going to happen in five generations time.



          Character Creation

          The Hedge Witch template is simple; after creating a mortal add one single dot in Wyrd Sorcery and one dot in two Tales of your choice.

          By default the pledge empowering a player character is assumed to have a duration of at least Lifetime, and any Tasks required by the Pledge have already been fulfilled by the character or her ancestors. Players who wish may take a Flaw representing Endeavours that remain unfulfilled or a Forbearance that must be upheld. The Storyteller and player are advised to think carefully before adding Tasks to the Pledge because of the enormous consequences breaking the deal could have upon the story.

          As a generalisation Hedge Witches tend to focus on mental and social attributes, both are integral to their magic, while careful planning and being seen as part of the community keeps you alive when spells start to Twist. The most common mental skills are Occult (for obvious reasons) and Crafts (to work with Goblin Fruit). A disproportionately large amount of Hedge Witches work Goblin Fruits with traditionally feminine domestic crafts like cooking or weaving, no witch finder would ever accuse a woman because she can cook. For the same reason many warlocks work Goblin Fruit with the techniques of a craftsman's trade and travelling witches of either gender tended to become bards, wandering actors or carnies. Any social skill can be useful to a Hedge Witch, but it is extremely common to see proficiency in either persuasion or intimidation. However she comes across, a Hedge Witch needs to make an impact. A speciality in gossip, either for socialise or investigation, is common. Hedge Witches are naturally drawn to stories. If he lives apart from human society, a Hedge Witch may turn to a pet for companionship, leading to Animal Ken.

          Common Merits among Hedge Witches include: Allies, Hedge Witches that don't live alone tend to embed themselves deeply in a small tight knit community, others can call upon their family. Common sense, to represent natural intuition. Holistic awareness. Unseen Sense. Fame, rarely above one dot representing their local community. Mentor, which usually represents a parent or grandparent experienced with magic; some Hedge Witches have a True Fae as a mentor though it is unlikely to reveal it's true nature. Retainer is equally common and usually represents a child or grandchild being taught magic; if a Hedge Witch has a True Fae as a retainer it is almost certainly staying true to a narrative role and will not reveal or make use of more than a fraction of it's real power.

          Among those Merits usually reserved to Changelings only Harvest is commonly seen among Hedge Witches. It is not unkown for a Hedge Witch to have acquired a Token from a goblin market, while a rare few have a Faerie Favour or Hedgebeast Companion.

          Concepts

          Carnival con-artist, devout wiccan priestess, head of the woman's institute, reckless teenage witch, drifter gambler, last heir to a druidic legacy, village wisewomman, member of a large extended witch family, travelling bard, small town persona non grata, wicked witch, superficial neopagan “fluffbunny”, beloved yet tyrannical grandmother, gypsy fortune teller, cottage dwelling cauldron string witch.

          Glamour

          Hedge Witches do not have a Glamour pool, which is a problem since Wyrd Sorcery requires Glamour. Even if the Witch is Fae-Tocuhed she will only have one point of Glamour, and would be unable to spend it on Sorcery anyway. So how to Witches cast spells?

          Simple. Witches can move Glamour, they just can't store it. Hedge Witches can draw on three of the sources Changeling’s use: Emotions, Pledges and Goblin Fruit.

          If a Hedge Witch wants to use emotions to power a spell she can take them from any nearby mortals just like a Changeling. The Glamour she harvests goes directly into her spell, this does not mean she has to cast the spell immediately after making a harvest roll. If a Warlock takes the time to tempt a young woman with stories of all the luxurious she could have, if she only buys his spell (Manipulation + Persuasion) then unless something happens, those emotions will still be there a few minuets later when the Warlock is ready to start casting his spell.

          Goblin Fruit are slightly more complicated. Hedge Witches can't extract any Glamour by eating a nice Blushberry, they need to add it to their spells more directly. The stereotype of a cauldron exists for a reason, and many Witches brew up their magic; the goblin fruit go into the pot, adding a little Glamour to the mix. Because Goblin Fruit is the only way a Hedge Witch can actually stockpile Glamour most find some way of preserving them; one Witch uses her culinary skill to preserve fruit ready for the pot. Another extracts dyes from Goblin Fruit, storing Glamour in unearthly colours so she can quite literally weave Tales on a spinning Wheel.

          Pledges: Hedge Witches can gain Glamour from a Pledge just like Changelings, they can even gain Glamour from Mortals if they find some way to seal the Pledge. A Hedge Witch simply “cashes in” the Pledge when they're ready to cast a spell.


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          • #6
            Hedge Witches and The Hedge

            Hedge Witches may not be Faeries, but they still have uses for Goblin Fruit and their ways of entering the Hedge. How? Witchcraft of course. Wyrd Sorcery has a verity of ways for entering the Hedge, it's just that Changelings usually find their innate abilities serve better.

            At three dots Fantasy can be used to connect two places and it doesn’t matter if one of them is in the Hedge, but remember entering the Hedge means you agree to only leave by one of the proper exists, not a fantasy of an exit. However this does require a Sympathetic connection to at least somewhere in the Hedge, and aside from Hollows and Trods there's no guarantee that place will still exist next week (Incidentally, each dot of Hollow Wards decreases your Sympathetic connection by one step, if the result is worse than Described the Wards cannot be breached).

            At four dots Transmogrification can turn an existing door into a Hedge Gate, though the caster has no control over the Gate's destination. Transmogrification can also add or change the key of an existing gate allowing access, this also requires four dots. If the Gate leads into a Hollow, each dot of Hollow Wards applies a -1 penalty.

            Visiting the Hedge is dangerous, if you're not a faerie it is more dangerous. Visiting the Hedge as part of a tale, with the possibility of Twists, is even more dangerous. Most Hedge Witches prefer to avoid using their magic, and instead rely on knowledge of a permanent Hedge Gate that leads directly to fruit, or they just buy from the local Goblin Market.

            Incidentally, a Hedge Witch can carry three Goblin Fruits at a time, as though she had a Wyrd of one.


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            • #7
              Great project, almost exactly of what I was looking for. Only I have some questions to it...

              1. I get a Twist are logical limits for the powers, and very in Changeling's Arcadia style. But what about price of Sorcery. Because, you know...



              Twists and Dooms don't seem as such. Maybe adding the Price as making spells easier, like limiting needed successes? And maybe giving Condition on the target of the spell?

              2. In GMC rules I assume costs are Wyrd Sorcery as 5 XP and each Tale with 4/5 XP costs? Any other changes needed for using with GMC rules? Just write traits in the Contract section on the char sheet?

              3. What about direct powers of Ice or Fire? Lighting bolts? All of this made on Contracts?

              4. What about emotional unstability working againts magic? Mein's outbursts?

              5. As you made a "Storybrook Curse" a spell, how it was sustained by True Fae? I just get confused a bit in details of mechanics.

              6. Maybe another example of Great Spell from Once Upon a Time for a better grip of your Wyrd Sorcery rules? What about Wicked Witch's spell of Time Travel? I assume it's generally outside the players scope, but could be interesting take on this.

              7. How about taking hearts from people? Any good take on Wyrd Sorcery?

              8. I assume that Hedge Witches are ( proper) minor template for Changeling, like Proximi are for the Awakened, correct? What would be Hedge Witches realations with Acanthus mages, especially in Mage 2 ed?
              Last edited by wyrdhamster; 11-19-2014, 08:25 AM.


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              • #8
                Originally posted by wyrdhamster View Post
                1. I get a Twist are logical limits for the powers, and very in Changeling's Arcadia style. But what about price of Sorcery. Because, you know...

                Twists and Dooms don't seem as such. Maybe adding the Price as making spells easier, like limiting needed successes? And maybe giving Condition on the target of the spell?
                Oh I disagree most strongly Twists are my word for what Rumplestiltskin calls a Price.

                Notice that Prices normally come after the magic in Once Upon a Time.

                Originally posted by wyrdhamster View Post
                2. In GMC rules I assume costs are Wyrd Sorcery as 5 XP and each Tale with 4/5 XP costs? Any other changes needed for using with GMC rules? Just write traits in the Contract section on the char sheet?
                Sure.

                Also, make twisting another's spell require a Clash of Wills. Roll Wyrd + Wyrd Sorcery.

                Originally posted by wyrdhamster View Post
                3. What about direct powers of Ice or Fire? Lighting bolts? All of this made on Contracts?
                Yep; want a Lightning Bolt, contracts of Elements.

                Originally posted by wyrdhamster View Post
                4. What about emotional unstability working againts magic? Mein's outbursts?
                I'd make it a Contract that lets you resist magic.

                Originally posted by wyrdhamster View Post
                5. As you made a "Storybrook Curse" a spell, how it was sustained by True Fae? I just get confused a bit in details of mechanics.
                Any True Fae can manifest a Title as a spell.

                If they do so they automatically get as many Successes as they want, and the spell is immune to Twists (except Twists intentionally caused by other Wyrd Sorcerers).

                The rule being that the True Fae can only manifest Titles as Spells to start a story, and they have to limit their Successes to give others a fair chance.

                Originally posted by wyrdhamster View Post
                6. Maybe another example of Great Spell from Once Upon a Time for a better grip of your Wyrd Sorcery rules? What about Wicked Witch's spell of Time Travel? I assume it's generally outside the players scope, but could be interesting take on this.
                Wyrd Sorcery cannot do time travel.

                If you say it can then it would be Fantasy 4, creating a door to the past. You would need 1 Potency per year or several years you travel back. This means that the Wicked Witch requires an epic amount of Mitigation. Otherwise she'd end up trapped in some weird "Nazi's took over the world" timeline or something crazy like that.

                Originally posted by wyrdhamster View Post
                7. How about taking hearts from people? Any good take on Wyrd Sorcery?
                Goblin Contract I think. Taking hearts is permement, that makes it unsitable for Wyrd Sorcery.

                8. I assume that Hedge Witches are ( proper) minor template for Changeling, like Proximi are for the Awakened, correct? What would be Hedge Witches realations with Acanthus mages, especially in Mage 2 ed?[/QUOTE]You assume correct.

                As a sterotype Hedge Witches would mostly think Acanthus are crazy people who sold their souls for power at the Watch Tower. A lot of Hedge Witches are heavily invested into their community, or their witch family (think of Nanny Ogg) or very good at getting on with strangers (imagine a travelling bard).

                Acanthus Awaken by realising that things like a 9-5 job or their family are holding them back. To a Hedge Witch that would look really bad.



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                • #9
                  Originally posted by The Kings Raven View Post
                  Oh I disagree most strongly Twists are my word for what Rumplestiltskin calls a Price.

                  Notice that Prices normally come after the magic in Once Upon a Time.
                  Well, yes, but I get from the show that any Sorcerer is knowing the Price in advance, when casting the spell. Also, Price is bad for Storybrook citizens, Twist don't seem as such - they make things... interesting. Not necceserly bad.

                  Maybe you could show me on the OUaT example how this should work more, with maybe Rumple adding his Price?

                  Originally posted by The Kings Raven View Post
                  I'd make it a Contract that lets you resist magic.
                  I was more thinking here about emotional instability of Elsa or Emma in last episodes that lead to outburst of their magic. Mostly it was random Contracts activations, but still - what could be rules on this? Condition maybe?

                  Originally posted by The Kings Raven View Post
                  If you say it can then it would be Fantasy 4, creating a door to the past. You would need 1 Potency per year or several years you travel back. This means that the Wicked Witch requires an epic amount of Mitigation. Otherwise she'd end up trapped in some weird "Nazi's took over the world" timeline or something crazy like that.
                  ... and this would make sense with her half season preparing the spell to cast it. But why Fantasy 4 and not 5 - it seams as highest power to obtain from Fantasy.

                  Originally posted by The Kings Raven View Post
                  Goblin Contract I think. Taking hearts is permement, that makes it unsitable for Wyrd Sorcery.
                  Nice add up to the Duchy of Icebound Heart - Snow Queens, literally, will take your heart away. What could be the Goblin Contract here? Take a totall possesion on the Heartless one?


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                  • #10
                    I'll go ahead and answer the original set of questions, to clarify/provide another opinion.
                    Originally posted by wyrdhamster View Post
                    Great project, almost exactly of what I was looking for. Only I have some questions to it...

                    1. I get a Twist are logical limits for the powers, and very in Changeling's Arcadia style. But what about price of Sorcery. Because, you know...

                    Twists and Dooms don't seem as such. Maybe adding the Price as making spells easier, like limiting needed successes? And maybe giving Condition on the target of the spell?
                    By the structure of Wyrd Sorcery price would fall under conditions (though it might deserve it's own special subset based on the Price's significance). The more costly the price, the less likelihood of unintended twisting and thus the stronger the spell. This does not, however, mean that a sorcerer can ignore Price, on the contrary it is well within her interests to create one. By doing so she'll be safeguarding herself against the wyrd creating a price for her (via twisting).

                    Narratively, this is the reason fairytale sorcerers and witches always seem to know the price upfront, and why novices dabbling in forces they don't understand always seem to get bit in the ass.

                    Originally posted by wyrdhamster View Post
                    2. In GMC rules I assume costs are Wyrd Sorcery as 5 XP and each Tale with 4/5 XP costs? Any other changes needed for using with GMC rules? Just write traits in the Contract section on the char sheet?
                    Those exp costs sound about right. TKR and I might redo this for 2.0 at some point, but I've asked that we wait till Mage 2.0 drops so the system can be harvested for inspiration.

                    Originally posted by wyrdhamster View Post
                    3. What about direct powers of Ice or Fire? Lighting bolts? All of this made on Contracts?
                    Contracts, yes. Wyrd Sorcery focuses on lasting magics that are a tale in-and-of themselves.

                    Originally posted by wyrdhamster View Post
                    4. What about emotional unstability working againts magic? Mein's outbursts?
                    This I would approach through twisting. If an emotionally unstable sorcereress were to cast a spell it might begin to twist automatically (as the narrative indicates she's not in control). This might even happen if the spell is casts upon an unstable character (changeling especially), the narrative elements of distress and madness working against the sorcerer's original intent.

                    Originally posted by wyrdhamster View Post
                    5. As you made a "Storybrook Curse" a spell, how it was sustained by True Fae? I just get confused a bit in details of mechanics.
                    What TKR said, titles can be turned into spells overwhich the fae has total control.

                    Originally posted by wyrdhamster View Post
                    6. Maybe another example of Great Spell from Once Upon a Time for a better grip of your Wyrd Sorcery rules? What about Wicked Witch's spell of Time Travel? I assume it's generally outside the players scope, but could be interesting take on this.
                    Time travel isn't normally supported within WoD, but if you were to approach it I'd put it at Fantasy 5 (I know TKR said 4, but 5 feels more epic, and should perhaps be adjusted to also include "magics of normally impossible scope"). It would require another spell factor chart as well, something like this:
                    Successes Time traveled
                    1 Up to an Hour
                    2 Up to a Day
                    3 Up to a Week
                    4 Up to a Month
                    5+ Up to a Season
                    ...and so on. Years, then decades, the centuries, etc. Getting back might be a trick though, and fundimentally this is a storyteller fiat sort of spell.
                    Originally posted by wyrdhamster View Post
                    7. How about taking hearts from people? Any good take on Wyrd Sorcery?
                    Taking a heart could be done through Wyrd Sorcery, Hexing 4. Add Transformation 3 if the caster is literally taking their heart, or freezing it, or something similar.

                    Originally posted by wyrdhamster View Post
                    8. I assume that Hedge Witches are ( proper) minor template for Changeling, like Proximi are for the Awakened, correct? What would be Hedge Witches realations with Acanthus mages, especially in Mage 2 ed?
                    I disagree with TKR a bit here. I don't think Hedge Witches will always assume an Acanthus is a crazy person. However, to a Hedge Witch an Acanthus likely seems a daunting and powerful figure, a seer who can peer into and twist the future. They might respect or even envy them, but no Hedge Witch is going to absolutely trust one. Practicing Wyrd Sorcery is gambling with twists of fate, a person who can see and manipulate those twists is thus, rather like gambling with a cheater.


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                    • #11
                      By the structure of Wyrd Sorcery price would fall under conditions (though it might deserve it's own special subset based on the Price's significance). The more costly the price, the less likelihood of unintended twisting and thus the stronger the spell. This does not, however, mean that a sorcerer can ignore Price, on the contrary it is well within her interests to create one. By doing so she'll be safeguarding herself against the wyrd creating a price for her (via twisting).

                      Narratively, this is the reason fairytale sorcerers and witches always seem to know the price upfront, and why novices dabbling in forces they don't understand always seem to get bit in the ass.
                      Agreed. Usually, when the sorcerer/witch tells you "it will only cost you x... is not so much, just a mere triffle" you know you are going to be screwed later.

                      Note: somehow, it bothers me in Once Upon a Time witches like Regina or her mother can cast their spells without any apparent cost. Doesn´t that violate the rule about "prices"?
                      Last edited by Raistlin; 11-19-2014, 06:00 PM.

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Raistlin View Post
                        Note: somehow, it bothers me in Once Upon a Time witches like Regina or her mother can cast their spells without any apparent cost. Doesn´t that violate the rule about "prices"?
                        They only cast "direct magic" without Price, which, in terms of Changeling, would be all Contracts of Elements. Remeber that the Dark Curse of the series cost Regina to
                        sacrifice her beloved father
                        - so I said she paid the Price as normal. Same goes to Emma.


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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by wyrdhamster View Post
                          Well, yes, but I get from the show that any Sorcerer is knowing the Price in advance
                          The impression I got was that only Rumplestilkskin knew Prices in advance. And even then, not all the time. He didn't know that everyone would loose their memories if they tried to leave town.

                          The Price is the fact he knows he's trapped unable to find his son. It's also an easy thing to model with a Twist.

                          Originally posted by wyrdhamster View Post
                          I was more thinking here about emotional instability of Elsa or Emma in last episodes that lead to outburst of their magic. Mostly it was random Contracts activations, but still - what could be rules on this? Condition maybe?
                          I would make this a Condition tied to your Kith or maybe even a Merit.

                          However it may be the result of a Twist. A spell to make you immune to cold might Twist and start randomly freezing things whenever you get emotional.

                          Originally posted by wyrdhamster View Post
                          But why Fantasy 4 and not 5 - it seams as highest power to obtain from Fantasy.
                          I put it next to "make time flow in exceptionally odd ways"

                          Originally posted by wyrdhamster View Post
                          Nice add up to the Duchy of Icebound Heart - Snow Queens, literally, will take your heart away. What could be the Goblin Contract here? Take a totall possesion on the Heartless one?
                          I'd create a Heartless Condition. Cannot regain Willpower from Virtue or Vice, -2 to resist possession, and must automatically obey whoever holds your heart.

                          However it does grant immunity to heart diseases, certain magic, and staking (if you're a vampire).

                          [QUOTE=PenDragon;n316509]I'll go ahead and answer the original set of questions, to clarify/provide another opinion.

                          By the structure of Wyrd Sorcery price would fall under conditions (though it might deserve it's own special subset based on the Price's significance). The more costly the price, the less likelihood of unintended twisting and thus the stronger the spell. This does not, however, mean that a sorcerer can ignore Price, on the contrary it is well within her interests to create one. By doing so she'll be safeguarding herself against the wyrd creating a price for her (via twisting).

                          Narratively, this is the reason fairytale sorcerers and witches always seem to know the price upfront, and why novices dabbling in forces they don't understand always seem to get bit in the ass.

                          Originally posted by PenDragon View Post
                          Those exp costs sound about right. TKR and I might redo this for 2.0 at some point, but I've asked that we wait till Mage 2.0 drops so the system can be harvested for inspiration.
                          Yeah, I'm really looking forward to it.

                          Originally posted by PenDragon View Post
                          Taking a heart could be done through Wyrd Sorcery, Hexing 4. Add Transformation 3 if the caster is literally taking their heart, or freezing it, or something similar.
                          If you want it to work like it did in Once Upon a Time (permemently) it would have to be a contract. Otherwise I agree, Transmogrification to physically remove a heart, Hexing for whatever horrible effects being heartless has.

                          Originally posted by PenDragon View Post
                          I disagree with TKR a bit here. I don't think Hedge Witches will always assume an Acanthus is a crazy person.
                          I kinda think that Acanthus are actually utterly crazy; anyone who can genuinely believe trading connection to your family for magic is a good deal either has an absolutely horrible family or a screw loose.

                          Hedge Witches just have the perfect perspective to notice: An understanding of Fate and an appreciation for the value of human contact.


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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by The Kings Raven View Post
                            I kinda think that Acanthus are actually utterly crazy; anyone who can genuinely believe trading connection to your family for magic is a good deal either has an absolutely horrible family or a screw loose.

                            Hedge Witches just have the perfect perspective to notice: An understanding of Fate and an appreciation for the value of human contact.
                            That, I think, is a slightly bias reading of the Acanthus. Acanthus don't trade their family for magic, they make a significant and unexpected life change (which may well be abandoning their family) and it triggers their mystery play. It's entirely possible that after the play the Arcanthus, now armed with the power to see how her abandonment affected them, would return to be the nurturing father he wasn't before. That said, sleepers are supposed to see Mages as a tad crazy, at least during their mystery play, so good on DaveB there.

                            Now as to Hedge Wizards, I do agree they have a unique perspective, both on the value of human contact and on the value of not getting your loved ones caught up in the narratives you create. However, if we are discussing how Hedge Wizards would view and Acanthus I think "crazy person who sold their soul" is a little off base. Hedge Wizards are going to see the world through the lens of Wyrd Sorcery, a universe of interconnected narratives and dramatic turns. An Acanthus, whose insight into that structure far surpasses that of a Hedge Wizard, is going to look super-duper-dubious.

                            Seers are, from a story perspective, instigators. Their visions trigger events, or direct characters who have lost their way. The very act of predicting the future changes it's outcome, thus Seers frequently are portrayed as deceptive or cryptic for the sake of the future they desire. To a Hedge Wizard (or Changeling Sorcerer) this fact, coupled with the expectations of narrative, twists, and drama make it next to impossible to trust a seer. They'll be too busy looking ahead, what's her end game? Where is the irony in her vision? Where's the twist? It's an irreconcilable difference in their outlook on causality that prevents them from ever truly seeing eye-to-eye.


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                            • #15
                              IMHO, time travel should be possible; but the difficulty shouldn’t be measured in conventional units of time. Rather than “how far through time can I travel?” the question should be “how much of an impact on the present will my destination afford me?” Paradoxically, traveling five minutes into the past ought to be harder to pull off than traveling five centuries in the past: the latter gives ample time for anything you do back then to twist utterly out of your control (with a decent chance, if the Storyteller is feeling lazy*, for the numerous twists to cancel out, leaving the present essentially untouched — see “a Connecticut Yankee in King Arthur’s Court” for an example of this), whereas the former keeps things immediate enough that it can be a potent tool for rewriting the story more to your liking.

                              Put another way: go far enough through time, and you’re essentially traveling to an unrelated world, no different than using a cantrip to open a gateway to an Arcadian Realm — not easy, mind you; but not overwhelmingly difficult either. Travel only a short distance through time, and you gain an impressive ability to muck with Fate through otherwise mundane means; that should be harder to do.

                              I’d be more inclined to say that travel within the same scene should be incredibly difficult, and travel within the same chapter shouldn’t be much easier. Travel within the same story should be easier, but not as easy as travel to an earlier story in the same chronicle; and traveling outside the chronicle should be the easiest (but least rewarding) option.



                              * Where “lazy” can mean “I have more important things to do”. The point is that if you go far enough through time, the Storyteller has his choice of going with “throw a pebble in the timestream, and it will cause a few ripples before everything evens out” or “a butterfly flaps its wings in India, and that eventually leads to a hurricane forming in the Atlantic” — that is, when the sorcerer returns to the present, he either returns to a world unchanged or to a world altered potentially beyond recognition. Either way, he has no say about the world to which he returns. Or, if he does, it’s because he put herculean effort into laying out contingency plans: e.g., establishing a secret society to carry out your will through the ages, with immortal watchmen checking on it periodically to ensure it stays on track. Not something that Wyrd Sorcerers are known for.


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