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What we can learn from Beast and others (Some opinions for 2e)

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  • #31
    Originally posted by ArcaneArts View Post
    Abuse is, funnily enough, a form of trauma.
    It's something that—just from my point of view—is becoming easier to ignore in Second Edition. Yeah, the whole 'stolen, hurt, returned' element (with FAR more nuance that I imply here, mind) is still there, but the mechanics 'oomph' behind it feels, I dunno... Watered down? I mean, a new character is saddled with only the MANDATORY kith, a state that comes with (from what we've seen so far) a pretty kick-ass Blessing and a weird (pun intended!) physical alteration, but the latter is covered by the Mask most times. There's no inherent (i.e. mechanics) downside to the event that we see.

    This is all taken out of any larger context, I know, and until we see what sorts of Anchor Traits we'll get—most importantly how Clarity shall work—it's all so much speculation. However, I DO think that some kind of 'balancing' mechanic can be brought to Clarity, but I'd want to see it being far more than the 'fae-versus-human' continuum suggested earlier in this thread. Hell, I think Clarity ALREADY is that kind of a continuum, taking what's offered in Equinox Road, vis-a-vis high Wyrd/low Clarity Traits, as 'fact' (insomuch as such a term applies to anything related to Faerie).

    ...So, IF I were to create a version of Clarity more akin to Harmony in Werewolf: the Forsaken Second Edition (a bigger if than this font allows), I'd to it with full knowledge that higher Clarity is vital to maintaining a changeling's way of life on this side of the Hedge. What I'd look for, though, is the possibility that on one end, Clarity 0 leaves a Changeling as nearly indistinguishable from a hobgoblin (or one of the True Fae with high enough Wyrd), whilst Clarity must be OVER 10 for anything like fully forgetting Faerie, a state that I'd deem impossible if Wyrd is higher than 1.

    The notion of bonuses/penalties for high or low Clarity is possible, too, but I'd tie them to things like kenning and incite bedlam only. That is, high Clarity makes seeing the 'odd' a tad easier, but bedlam is harder to really push onto others; flip those for low Clarity.

    All of the above notwithstanding, I think that I fall closer to ArcaneArts's point of view than on the OP's, but I'm always glad to argue discuss these things here! I'm further waiting to see what David and company actually do with Changeline before starting any fights over this.


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    • #32
      Originally posted by Phaolan View Post
      It's something that—just from my point of view—is becoming easier to ignore in Second Edition. Yeah, the whole 'stolen, hurt, returned' element (with FAR more nuance that I imply here, mind) is still there, but the mechanics 'oomph' behind it feels, I dunno... Watered down? I mean, a new character is saddled with only the MANDATORY kith, a state that comes with (from what we've seen so far) a pretty kick-ass Blessing and a weird (pun intended!) physical alteration, but the latter is covered by the Mask most times. There's no inherent (i.e. mechanics) downside to the event that we see.
      I would say that the Seeming curse is also represented of this. It is mechanical 'oomph' about what you HAD to do to escape from the trauma causing situation and how that will continue to affect your life afterwards.


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      • #33
        I have a pretty good hunch that Changeling characters are going to have more Clarity breaking points than just the Seeming Curse. I thought I remembered some remark from David about creating the Durance as part of character creation. It seems likely to me that at least some breaking points -- and probably some other weirdness -- will be rooted in the particular traumas the character faced in Arcadia, and how they reacted/responded.


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        • #34
          So, now that we have Beast's preview open to the public, I feel now is the time to do some gravedigging on this.

          Powers that make a Changeling feel actually changed feel like something Beast accomplishes far better than 1e Changeling, and the Hunger mechanic - while ultimately a bit void as far as providing societal connection goes - does provide impetus to act like a creature of myth. What lessons can be learned from these to improve Changeling, a game that ostensibly held these sorts of themes as ideas long before Beast rolled onto the scene?

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          • #35
            Originally posted by YeOfLittleFaith View Post

            I see where you're coming from, but I'm not terribly fond of that paradigm for Clarity. I don't think it works as well as a more linear Integrity equivalent trait. Clarity to me is not about balance. Changelings aren't trying to strike a harmonious point between their human and fae sides; they're trying to not get swallowed by the influence of Arcadia on their minds and to keep a strong hold on reality. The Lost are touched by Faerie - but they weren't born like that. They struck pacts with it to survive, and the Wyrd filled in where the thorns of the Hedge ripped their souls in the escape from the Others.
            This is much, much closer to what we're doing with Changeling 2.0. I'm really not comfortable with "finding a balance" in Changeling, considering the cultural and social contexts of what's going on in the game.


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            • #36
              Changeling's Clarity makes perfect sense to me as a linear Integrity Trait. It has a lot conceptually in common with Humanity, I think, as it's a similar idea of trying to hold onto who you are in the face of the supernatural part of your identity.


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              • #37
                I was hoping more to discuss, in terms of design space, the notion of Changeling aesthetic being about changing as a being rather than insert-coin-get-effect powers as they largely were in first edition, but we can return to the notion of Clarity. Honestly, I agree; its role as Integrity analogue works best.

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                • #38
                  As far as the original post: A recent re-reading of the core book's coverage of the Hedge has revealed so much language which makes traveling in the Hedge come across as a constantly dangerous undertaking. I had wondered why my players were so put off by it long ago but over time I have come to see why. Even as a cool option is offered, it is diminished a few paragraphs later by penalties, restrictions, adversaries, and threats of getting off the path. After a while, it doesn't seem worth the risks for many players, and those with newer characters are even less likely to have the resources it takes for a safer trip. More variety in level, tone, and function would be nice all around.


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                  • #39
                    Originally posted by Gaius View Post
                    I have a pretty good hunch that Changeling characters are going to have more Clarity breaking points than just the Seeming Curse. I thought I remembered some remark from David about creating the Durance as part of character creation. It seems likely to me that at least some breaking points -- and probably some other weirdness -- will be rooted in the particular traumas the character faced in Arcadia, and how they reacted/responded.
                    Given the latest spoiler, I'm gonna say... Yearnings.


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