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What we can learn from Beast and others (Some opinions for 2e)

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  • Nyrufa
    replied
    Well on the part about them not being as great as the legends that spawned them, that might be because they are only half fae. Also, it refers to the fact that once they cross back into the mortal world, their Fae abilities are substantially weaker. For example, the Windwings had the ability to fly through the skies of Arcadia when they were in their durance, but after their escape, they only retain the power to glide, with the exception of maybe a contract giving them full flight.

    Might also want to keep in mind that most of the Changelings didn't want anything to do with the Fae in the first place. It was forced upon them and now they'll struggle the rest of their life to maintain their sanity and avoid being dragged back in chains. The Changelings do not want to indulge their Fae nature, they do it subconsciously like a bad habit. Ogres are regarded as violent, simple minded brutes, not really something most people would want to indulge in if they care about the safety of those around them.


    They prey upon the emotions of humans, even having the power to fuck up their dreams and thus cause psychological trauma. Somebody who is trying to hold onto their humanity isn't going to say "this is fun, let's go wild!" they're going to feel terrified about what they've become. This is why we have Clarity, the more you act like a Fae, the less grip you have on your sanity.

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  • ArcaneArts
    replied
    Originally posted by Raistlin View Post
    Changeling should take the approach on morality of werewolf 2.0: the balance between the human and the fae sides. Being more fae may grant the character certain benefits (example, contracts are easier or more powerful) at the cost of gain banes and insanity)
    Hell no. That's not what Clarity is about. That's not what Changeling is about.

    I don't have the focus to go into full rant mode, so give me a second to go find posts on the subject when I was filled with the fervor.

    EDIT: Here's one.

    Actually, that whole thread covers the subject. I'd like to highlight Errol and Satchel's comments in particular there.
    Last edited by ArcaneArts; 04-17-2015, 03:41 PM.

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  • Illuminated Minutia
    replied
    Originally posted by YeOfLittleFaith View Post

    I see where you're coming from, but I'm not terribly fond of that paradigm for Clarity. I don't think it works as well as a more linear Integrity equivalent trait. Clarity to me is not about balance. Changelings aren't trying to strike a harmonious point between their human and fae sides; they're trying to not get swallowed by the influence of Arcadia on their minds and to keep a strong hold on reality. The Lost are touched by Faerie - but they weren't born like that. They struck pacts with it to survive, and the Wyrd filled in where the thorns of the Hedge ripped their souls in the escape from the Others.
    I agree with this. Faerie isn't something you really want to be a part of. Its more of a necessity.

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  • espritdecalmar
    replied
    You definitely have some intriguing ideas here, Axelgear. I especially like what you have to say about signposting the Hedge. Adds to the fairy tale logic of the place, as well as providing players concrete reasons to engage in unwise behavior. I've experienced the frustration before of trying to put some bit of fae trickery in my players' way, only for them to immediately recognize what was going on because, well, everyone knows fairy tales. Then again, I was a pretty novitiate Storyteller at the time, and I think I dropped a few too many hints, in hindsight. Ah well.

    Speaking of fairy tale logic, I think Conditions are going to be a huge boon for 2e Changeling, tying in to the "rewarding the players" angle. Not that everything should be Condition-facing, of course, but they'll definitely help.

    Considering that both 2e Vampire and 2e Werewolf have Merits exclusive to each Clan/Auspice, I think it is likely we will see something similar here, which, I imagine, could help with what you have in mind with regards to Seeming passive abilities. At the very least, I really like the vague Fame bonus for the Fairest and the animal network for Beasts; if there's nothing like that in 2e I'm definitely going to crib those two and cobble together rules for them.

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  • YeOfLittleFaith
    replied
    Originally posted by Raistlin View Post
    Changeling should take the approach on morality of werewolf 2.0: the balance between the human and the fae sides. Being more fae may grant the character certain benefits (example, contracts are easier or more powerful) at the cost of gain banes and insanity)
    I see where you're coming from, but I'm not terribly fond of that paradigm for Clarity. I don't think it works as well as a more linear Integrity equivalent trait. Clarity to me is not about balance. Changelings aren't trying to strike a harmonious point between their human and fae sides; they're trying to not get swallowed by the influence of Arcadia on their minds and to keep a strong hold on reality. The Lost are touched by Faerie - but they weren't born like that. They struck pacts with it to survive, and the Wyrd filled in where the thorns of the Hedge ripped their souls in the escape from the Others.

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  • Axelgear
    replied
    Originally posted by Raistlin View Post
    Changeling should take the approach on morality of werewolf 2.0: the balance between the human and the fae sides. Being more fae may grant the character certain benefits (example, contracts are easier or more powerful) at the cost of gain banes and insanity)
    I'm definitely down for this. Werewolf, though, tries to suggest the desire for a balance between flesh and spirit, whereas Changeling's themes are about desperately holding onto reality, uncertain if this is real or not. It also has the abuse survivor theme and any morality meter needs to grapple with that. Changelings are desperate fugitives trying to believe that this is real.

    I think I'd need playtesting to see how to toy with this but my instinct is to suggest that there should be rewards for seeking the peaks of either, but the human side should have fewer penalties. Being more human might make you better able to resist magic, whereas being more fae makes you better at using it but less able to resist it. Clap your hands if you believe, y'know?

    In regards to goblin markets, what makes you let the PCs deal only in important memories? For minor tokens, trinkets, goblin fruit and minor information I usually let the PCs trade with glamour or parts from monsters they killed/found. Mind you, I do agree that the rules leave a lot to be desired in regards to the economy of trinkets and goblin fruit. I have been somewhat generous, but at the same time I am hesitent to make them too common if only out of fear of them overshadowing certain contracts.
    This is largely in line with what I'm suggesting. Trading important parts of yourself, though, is pretty much one of the common symbols of the market and I really don't feel that should be the case. It should be a symbol of it, and a major one, but trading something important should be as important as the thing itself.

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  • Madfox11
    replied
    In regards to goblin markets, what makes you let the PCs deal only in important memories? For minor tokens, trinkets, goblin fruit and minor information I usually let the PCs trade with glamour or parts from monsters they killed/found. Mind you, I do agree that the rules leave a lot to be desired in regards to the economy of trinkets and goblin fruit. I have been somewhat generous, but at the same time I am hesitent to make them too common if only out of fear of them overshadowing certain contracts.

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  • Raistlin
    replied
    Changeling should take the approach on morality of werewolf 2.0: the balance between the human and the fae sides. Being more fae may grant the character certain benefits (example, contracts are easier or more powerful) at the cost of gain banes and insanity)

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  • Axelgear
    replied
    While I'm on a tear here, I might as well keep on tearing.

    Goblin Markets. Goblin Markets have a big problem because, at present, they fall into the "Why would anyone do this?" trap. There's something innately distressing about selling off pieces of your existence piecemeal and, while interesting, should probably be something that's kept for really important things. If a Changeling sells their birth name, it should be for the only weapon that can kill their fetch or Keeper or something similarly monumental. Otherwise, you become the guy who sold a piece of his soul to get better at piano.

    Moreover, there's no real clear sign what matches up as an oddment worth trading. Examples are made of trading bags of spiders' legs, but when and why would goblins accept these in trade?

    To my mind, the Goblin Market is worth playing up; it should emphasize the oddity of a Changeling's life and its utter fluidity. A player may wish to "respec" their character, selling their skill with a firearm for skill with the scalpel instead, becoming a superlative surgeon when they take a life and realize they just can't take it; the need to reinvent the self fits well with the abuse and recovery narrative Changeling has going. The Goblin Market should also be utterly fae and, to that end, I recommend considering the notion that, say, once an adventure, a character may claim some odd trinket that they can trade for one dot's worth of token(s) on the Goblin Market, saving up to buy bigger items if necessary. These wouldn't be protected by Sanctity of Merits unless paid for but it'd be a good way to represent the character growing with time.

    Likewise, consider something akin to a "floating" token merit, representing the fact that Changelings have lives that fluctuate and often exist on the willingness to trade one thing for another. A Changeling may have five dots in this floating merit and, at the start of a story, can decide on up to five dots worth of token(s) to have their character start play with (with obvious veto power to the ST; be kind of ridiculous to start off with Excalibur). This way, players are more willing to give up their toys in trade, because they know it's not a mechanical loss, even with Sanctity of Merits considered.

    Floating merits like this also allow for more fae behaviours. An impressive collection of oddities is the Lost equivalent to being wealthy, so consider what these things represent and where characters get them from and where they keep them. It suddenly makes sense for one of the Lost to live in a filthy hovel full of garbage because they spend ten hours a day digging in the local dump ground for things that might be of value; mundane folks think of them as the local crazy garbage hoarder, but they know what's up. It suddenly makes sense for them to go digging through the shrike trod because it means they get shiny things to trade.

    You could even include mechanics for scrounging up trade items. Access to a token - temporarily or permanently - is hardly an overwhelming advantage, and you can get a pretty interesting scene just of a character having to find an oddity of some sort. A panicked Darkling digging through trash in a subway station might have to deal with the metro cops, for example. Likewise, if a player got something effectively for "free", the ST should always feel like they can include some kind of odd catch in there somewhere. You get what you pay for.

    Likewise, if a character wants to pay experience, don't make it an agonizing moment of "You traded something awesome from your future" for it unless the player wants it to be. If the player's paying experience, feel free to let them assume they have the sufficient trade goods.

    I've honestly got much, much more if people are interested but, right now, my stream of consciousness is slowing to a trickle, so... Yeah.

    I can provide example merits, sample mechanics, etc., if desired.

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