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Changeling 2E Japan (Kinda Like Tokyo, Only Bigger)

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  • #91
    Originally posted by MachineIV View Post

    And I imagine Inuyasha is referencing the same legend. I don't know anything about it, but that's almost certainly not a coincidence.
    well, one of the movies was based around Kaguya and the Five Treasures. Sure, they kinda butchered the original story (the Princess was a demon in human skin and the five treasures were used as some form of crazy ritual) but still.


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    • #92
      Originally posted by Aspel View Post
      Stop taunting me! Previews can't come soon enough.
      Also, finding references sounds like a challenge.

      I assume Tokyo will play a big part in The Crossover Chronicle?

      And not to get off the topic of Changeling too much [again], but what do you mean about spending Willpower to attack [no longer] breaking Theban Sorcery and shit?
      Well, in the old rules, you could only spend one Willpower per turn, period. So anything that forced you to spend Willpower negated your ability to use other powers which required Willpower.

      Like, for example, with old Majesty 5, people had to spend Willpower to attack you. That meant they couldn't use Theban Sorcery to attack you, because they had to spend Willpower in the same turn to activate the spell. (Some people let you stagger out the expenditure, but some rules actively referenced that kind of prohibition.) Now, you just can't spend more than one for a single dice pool. You can spend multiple, to multiple ends.

      And honestly? I know fuck-all about Crossover Chronicle. I learned about it when someone asked me on Twitter from Gen Con if I was developing it. Sounds cool though. I hope I get to be involved, and I hope I get to deliver more Tokyo goodness.

      And by all means, find the references. I'll confirm or deny them. I tend to use references as anchor points for inspiration. I come up with a few ideas that way, it's sort of my version of Oblique Strategies. Then, I build out from there. It's an organic way to keep the words flowing. For Secrets of the Covenants, I used punk songs. For Hurt Locker, I used the works of Clive Barker. For Lost 2E, I used Che Guevara's Guerilla Warfare. Which was actually interesting, because I used it as a foundation for a Shadowrun supplement I worked on years ago, which went a completely different direction.


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      • #93
        Originally posted by LostLight View Post
        well, one of the movies was based around Kaguya and the Five Treasures. Sure, they kinda butchered the original story (the Princess was a demon in human skin and the five treasures were used as some form of crazy ritual) but still.
        I love fucking with and completely reinterpreting folk tales. I mean, it's what people did with folk tales in the first place, right? We just tend to hear the dominant retelling.

        I find it delightful the way a lot of Japanese media does that. My kids love Yokai Watch, which completely takes this weird, no-holds-barred, tongue-in-cheek approach to folklore that's more invested in adding puns than honoring any sense of authenticity, and it's utterly beautiful for it.


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        • #94
          Originally posted by MachineIV View Post

          Well, in the old rules, you could only spend one Willpower per turn, period. So anything that forced you to spend Willpower negated your ability to use other powers which required Willpower.

          Like, for example, with old Majesty 5, people had to spend Willpower to attack you. That meant they couldn't use Theban Sorcery to attack you, because they had to spend Willpower in the same turn to activate the spell. (Some people let you stagger out the expenditure, but some rules actively referenced that kind of prohibition.) Now, you just can't spend more than one for a single dice pool. You can spend multiple, to multiple ends.
          This is a subtlety of the new system I had completely glossed over, and I am much profited by the knowledge. Unrelated, I need to read books better.
          Last edited by Yossarian; 09-08-2016, 04:39 PM. Reason: spell better, too



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          • #95
            LostLight to be fair, in Inuyasha, everyone is a demon.
            MachineIV I never noticed 2e allows that. Though there are a lot of assumptions from 1e that 2e implicitly does away with, like Firearms defense at close range (unless "In close combat, the target’s Defense against Firearms attacks is increased by the gun’s (Size +1)" is implicitly stating that you do get Defense in close combat with Firearms; it's not explicitly stated, though, and the Defense section just flat out stats no Defense against Firearms). I also assumed that not being able to use Willpower for other things was intentional for those "spend Willpower to attack" abilities.

            This also makes the Beaten Down Tilt more interesting. I'd assumed with the combat system's high Defenses encouraging spending Willpower on attacks, the Beaten Down Tilt was meant to discourage or make it more difficult to attack (since attacking without Willpower is harder). But if you can spend Defense multiple times in a single turn, it's more like being draining.

            Also, was that intentional, or just a thing that happened? I like 2e overall, but so much of how it came about results in a lot of sloppiness. A lot of stuff really feels like it could have been explained more and made more explicit, because it's so easy to miss things like "it's hard to get a hit in during combat to encourage you to spend Willpower, gang up, and go All-Out". Or "you can spend Willpower multiple times a turn". Although I guess it does say "You can only spend one point of Willpower per action." so the assumption of one point per turn is really just something people familiar with 1e would assume.
            Is there, like, a "changelog" for other things like this? What else am I making the wrong assumptions about?
            Last edited by Aspel; 09-08-2016, 05:01 PM.

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            • #96
              Originally posted by MachineIV View Post
              Super good notes. Thank you so much.

              Yes.
              Read the thread before I read the doc, just started and I see what you did there with Yosei/Yousei.

              Aspel, the word fairy is more properly spelled Yousei. That's the joke ( along with tying very well into Lost's themes).


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              • #97
                Originally posted by MachineIV View Post

                Yeah. Which, if you consider it, is kinda weird.

                But it's a Chinese legendary critter, recognized as part of their zodiac. Which is to say, it doesn't exist. So, when someone's told to get the robe of the fire rat, they just can't. And of course, guys are guys, so they tried forging these impossible items.

                And I imagine Inuyasha is referencing the same legend. I don't know anything about it, but that's almost certainly not a coincidence.
                According to the wiki, Inuyasha is referencing the Bamboo Cutter and Moonlight Princess story. There really wasn't much to it from the anime. I just remembered the fireproof pelt correlation.

                I particularly like the Bamboo Cutter story when the guy bringing the fake branch was telling an elaborate lie and the 6 jewelers he had help him make the gift barged in to expose him because he hadn't paid them yet. Less fun was when he beat them up later but I guess that was supposed to be his right as a samurai.

                I wasn't completely sure I understood Freehold creation from the rules release, but Tokyo clarified and inspired me to create the twin Freeholds of SD-TJ. So here is what you are responsible for.

                Tijuana has a reputation for being a wild and violent place so the Freehold myth is based on the Aztec creation story of Five Suns. There are four Courts each based on one of the classical elements and an Aztec creation deity, so judgment, mercy, greed or hardwork, and wrath. The bulwark is an offering to one of the Aztec deities every 20 days with the addition that every 52 years the offerings have to be the real deal complete with human sacrifices. Every year for 5 days the Freehold has a flower war with the local Gentry in the Hedge. Each day a Court pits its warriors against an equal number of Gentry forces with each side trying to capture opposing warriors. At the end of a day the Court leader can choose to symbolically defeated/destroyed like the Court's associated Sun/World to be able to take the place of all the changelings captured that day so they are free for the fifth day. The Fifth Sun leads a number of changelings equal to the total number of Gentry forces captured the four preceding days against the Gentry numbering the total number of changelings captured over the same period. The Changelings have to win on the Fifth Day to keep the Freehold going.

                For San Diego, I went with the Diegueno story of Chaup. Animals and the cardinal directions are important to the stories so there are four Courts based on a direction and a group of animals. The reptiles are witches that give knowledge that oppose the birds that deal with mourning. The predators are the warriors that focus on competition opposing the service oriented prey that focus on running and hiding. The Courts take turns leading the Freehold. Every time the moon is at apogee the Freehold has to recreate the story of Chaup with 2 females, 2 males, and 2 females each from a different Court not in power taking up roles and the new ruler as Chaup. The Gentry get to try to mess with the the actors but only get to try to kill the new Chaup near the end of the story. Chaup has to live to lead the Freehold for another period.

                There are two mysteries of the area. The first is that changelings that return from Arcadia in TJ are always darklings, elementals, or ogres while SD are always fairest, wizened, or beasts. People that are abducted in one city often return in the other city. The second is that each city has its own Gentry that are unable to send their forces across the border. For changelings that think they are safe as soon as they cross the border are mistaken. The two Gentry groups have a deal to share information and swap changelings.

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                • #98
                  I thought the o/ou thing was primarily a difference of romanization.

                  I really only know because I made a magical girl themed Changeling focused Hunter Conspiracy called the "Bishojou Senshi Yousei Kishi".

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                  • #99
                    Originally posted by LostLight View Post
                    Personally, I think that somewhere between the end of Edo Jidai and the early Meiji Restoration should be the best time for those events to take place.
                    So either during or sometime after the Bakumatsu?

                    Hmm. Regarding the betrayal itself, I imagine it could range from being intentional (the Court willingly aided the Gentry in an attempt to avert a future disaster) to having been an accident (a single courtier - or even a small group of courtiers - was manipulated by a very crafty Fae Lord/Lady).

                    I imagine the latter being more likely, as it would explain the Orihime Court's silence. They recognize their handiwork in the Moon Princess' dilemma, and they're afraid of the political backlash they will receive... and then there's the impending invasion from Arcadia.


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                    • Originally posted by Diggs View Post
                      I wasn't completely sure I understood Freehold creation from the rules release, but Tokyo clarified and inspired me to create the twin Freeholds of SD-TJ.
                      Those are very nice concepts I'm not sure which I like more. The Sun Courts of Tijuana, or the regional Directional Court of San Diego. For the latter, though, I assume there isn't a fifth Court like the one featured in the Three Kingdoms Dark Era?


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                      • This is great stuff. I'm still trying to get a handle on how approaches work in practice though. It's a really cool concept I'm just not sure I understand how to apply it correctly. That said, I dig the super sentai reference, especially since I've been running a Summer Court that requires attacking Fae to send a series of escalating monsters before they can personally take the field.
                        They even have a Beast "sixth ranger". As genres go that one's pretty well tilted in the protagonist's favor.

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                        • Originally posted by Aspel View Post
                          I thought the o/ou thing was primarily a difference of romanization.

                          I really only know because I made a magical girl themed Changeling focused Hunter Conspiracy called the "Bishojou Senshi Yousei Kishi".
                          Yeah. Romanization isn't QUITE as standardized as people like to think. Particularly when wordplay comes into play. Little tiny intonation changes and stuff can lead to a lot of fun puns that wouldn't otherwise exist.

                          I pronounce it probably a little closer to Yousei. But when writing for a Western audience, I try to favor the simpler forms where possible.


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                          • Originally posted by Aspel View Post
                            Also, was that intentional, or just a thing that happened? I like 2e overall, but so much of how it came about results in a lot of sloppiness. A lot of stuff really feels like it could have been explained more and made more explicit, because it's so easy to miss things like "it's hard to get a hit in during combat to encourage you to spend Willpower, gang up, and go All-Out". Or "you can spend Willpower multiple times a turn". Although I guess it does say "You can only spend one point of Willpower per action." so the assumption of one point per turn is really just something people familiar with 1e would assume.
                            Is there, like, a "changelog" for other things like this? What else am I making the wrong assumptions about?
                            It was intentional. Rose made that call in the CofD core and Requiem 2E. IIRC, GMC didn't actually note that change (it might have, but it's been a while, and frankly I try to avoid reading/referencing GMC because it can lead to subtle conflicts). We had a brief discussion about it. We agreed that it led to too many unintended implications, like Majesty shutting down Theban Sorcery.

                            And no, I don't think there's a change log or anything like that. I kinda wish there was. I also kind of wish we had more room to explain and example things. But, I know we were tight with space, and had to make the best with what we had. I'd love to do a "Chronicles of Darkness Pro Edition" or something with a lot more depth and thoroughness, along with pulling back the curtains and showing some of the nuts and bolts with ideas for how to hack it all up and own it. Maybe some day.


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                            • Originally posted by MachineIV View Post
                              I can't remember Envoy's Protection in 2e off the top of my hand.
                              Witnesses gain the Swooning Condition toward you and mundane humans can't deliberately attack you as long as you're being nonthreatening.

                              (It's a recent acquisition and the direct cause of at least one ongoing fiasco in my playtest game; I've got the rules near to hand.)


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                              • Originally posted by Satchel View Post
                                Witnesses gain the Swooning Condition toward you and mundane humans can't deliberately attack you as long as you're being nonthreatening.

                                (It's a recent acquisition and the direct cause of at least one ongoing fiasco in my playtest game; I've got the rules near to hand.)
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