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  • milo v3
    started a topic Creating Hedgebeasts

    Creating Hedgebeasts

    Has anyone read or heard about whether Changeling 2e will have rules for creating Hedgebeasts, whether it'll only be the text in the merit section, or if it will be a 1e style "make it up from scratch" thing?

    Lack of hegdebeast creation rules in 1e was one of the reasons I never was willing to run it as a storyteller, so I have hopes that 2e changeling will have creation rules like horrors/angels/ghosts/spirits/pangaeans/strix/cryptids/pandorans/etc.
    Last edited by milo v3; 10-04-2016, 06:35 AM.

  • Blue-01.exe
    replied
    Originally posted by Omegaphallic View Post

    Honestly I have the idea of my Chimp Princess dropping her mask during a kiss, very funny.

    But I originally intended the Chimp stats to be used as a stand in for a humaniod Hedge Beast.


    It could also be quite horrifying depending on what the chimp stats could look like in fae terms, like, it could follow the basic rules of being apelike but be twisted in some fae way that makes it carry a Princess like bearing, I just think fae are all about deception and that is a great idea for a deception.

    Leave a comment:


  • Omegaphallic
    replied
    Originally posted by Blue-01.exe View Post


    I like the way you think.

    Really the rules for horrors could easily apply to creating hedgebeasts as well, just strap on a mask, mien, a contract or two and some fae merits and you are golden.


    Oh and, to those concerned about a chimp having the mask of a beautiful princess, Wyrd is weird yo, you can pretty much do whatever you want.
    Honestly I have the idea of my Chimp Princess dropping her mask during a kiss, very funny.

    But I originally intended the Chimp stats to be used as a stand in for a humaniod Hedge Beast.

    Leave a comment:


  • Jacob
    replied
    I did something like this for Cryptids in my Demon games. IMO, it would be nice if each line's non-splat gribblies all used the Horror rules from CoD. Among other things it's the kind of mechanical foregrounding that greatly eases crossover play.

    Leave a comment:


  • Blue-01.exe
    replied
    So lets take the Chimp...
    Now I give the Chimp the Giant Merit, Market Sense, 5 dots of Hedge Bounty, Legendary Language, 2 dots of status goblin market.....
    So what we have now is: Hedgebeast Chimpanzee
    I like the way you think.

    Really the rules for horrors could easily apply to creating hedgebeasts as well, just strap on a mask, mien, a contract or two and some fae merits and you are golden.
    hmmm.. What might be a good patch is to use the Horror Rules from CofD , but with a few adjustments. Switch Potency to Wyrd and instead of Dread Powers use Contracts (perhaps giving a number of Dots of Contracts equal to twice the number of Dread Powers granted by Potency)
    Oh and, to those concerned about a chimp having the mask of a beautiful princess, Wyrd is weird yo, you can pretty much do whatever you want.

    Last edited by Blue-01.exe; 12-25-2016, 04:11 AM.

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  • Reighnhell
    replied
    hmmm.. What might be a good patch is to use the Horror Rules from CofD , but with a few adjustments. Switch Potency to Wyrd and instead of Dread Powers use Contracts (perhaps giving a number of Dots of Contracts equal to twice the number of Dread Powers granted by Potency)

    Leave a comment:


  • milo v3
    replied
    Because all the merchants at the goblin market will have at least 5 str, are brilliant climbing, at always keep their composure, and aren't great at manipulating people?... and the wyrd thinks elf princesses are closer to chimps than odd looking humans?

    Leave a comment:


  • Omegaphallic
    replied
    So lets take the Chimp.

    Chimpanzee
    Attributes: Intelligence 2, Wits 3, Resolve 2, Strength 5, Dexterity 4, Stamina 3, Presence 2, Manipulation 2, Composure 4
    Skills: Athletics (Climbing) 3, Brawl (Bite) 3, Intimidation 3, Survival 3
    Willpower: 6
    Initiative: 8
    Defense: 7
    Speed: 13 (species factor 6)
    Size: 4
    Weapons/Attacks:
    Type Damage Dice Pool
    Bite +0 9
    Health: 7

    Now I give the Chimp the Giant Merit, Market Sense, 5 dots of Hedge Bounty, Legendary Language, 2 dots of status goblin market.

    So what we have now is:

    Hedgebeast Chimpanzee
    Attributes: Intelligence 2, Wits 3, Resolve 2, Strength 5, Dexterity 4, Stamina 3, Presence 2, Manipulation 2, Composure 4
    Skills: Athletics (Climbing) 3, Brawl (Bite) 3, Intimidation 3, Survival 3
    Willpower: 6
    Initiative: 8
    Defense: 7
    Speed: 13 (species factor 6)
    Size: 5
    Weapons/Attacks:
    Type Damage Dice Pool
    Bite +0 9
    Health: 8
    Wyrd 3

    Merits Giant •, Market Sense •, Status: Goblin Market ••, Hedge Bounty •••••.

    Mien: a beautiful elf princess with glowing eyes.

    Mask: Chimpanzee

    Contracts: Steal the Solid Reflection ••••

    There is an example Hedge Beast Merchant that you could have as a 3 dot Hedge Beast Companion.

    Leave a comment:


  • Omegaphallic
    replied
    Originally posted by milo v3 View Post
    Except you don't really seem able to make hedgebeasts that would be very good merchants at the goblin market. Does every single humanoid hedgebeast have to use chimpanzee as their base since it's the only bipedal animal statted up (and still hasn't been put into a book...)?

    The merit seems flawed to me since we don't exactly have many animal stats, we have like two or three in Dark Eras and then a few in an online doc that will probably never be printed.
    An alternate way for a Hedgebeast to take humaniod form is to take the Skinmask Contract, Alternate Idenity Merit for a human form, and then have them strengthen the mask to physicality, creating a human body of sorts.

    But otherwise, yes just use chimp if you want them to be bipedal. If you want them to be at least size 5, just add the giant merit to the chimp. You can have a humaniod looking hedgebeast, really just a great ape that looks more human. Do you really need anything else?

    Leave a comment:


  • milo v3
    replied
    Originally posted by basketcase View Post
    Maybe I just don't see where your coming from Milo. as I'm not a big fan of our new 2E ghost and spirit rules the idea of a manifestation flow chart is unappealing and by and large I would always want to build from the ground up although that's personal preference.
    Manifestation flow chart isn't what I was referring to, it's the fact that you can think up a concept for a spirit/ghost/angel/geotia/supernal being/cthonian/etc. and then just follow the steps and have it easily made. Might need to homebrew a single numina at most to fill out basically any concept. The horror rules help you make so many things, and it doesn't have a flow chart or anything.

    what type of Hogoblin were you interested in building? why are the lack of defined monster making rules holding you back?
    Nothing specific at the moment, but without guidelines I'm not interested in pulling numbers out of nothing. To me if the NPC's are just made up from nothing I may as well not have NPC stats at all. The lack of hobgoblin creation guidelines made me not willing to create a single hobgoblin in changeling 1e.

    you mentioned a lack of guidlines. but I'm not so sure this is the case. Hogoblins use normal attributes and skills, figured characteristics (health, willpower, speed, defense) all equate to stander character creation rules, Hogoblins have a Wyrd rating based on there connection to Arcadia,fate,the hedge,Wyrd itself. Contracts work as usual. glamour works as usual. plus having the added benefit of having never been human means a Hogoblin can literally be any alive Hedge native of any size, shape, power level, narrative purpose, moral alignment,.... and of course if you think it should be able to do something not quite covered by the rules then it can do that to.
    None of this I would consider a homebrew, this is changeling as written.
    Creating a creature from nothing is homebrew. The numbers didn't come from system, it's just throwing values together with no innate consistancy and I don't really want to waste time worrying about needing to make up so many characters and monsters like that. It's just too much effort IMO as Storyteller to craft that many NPC's from aether rather than guidelines when I could be playing a different game where it takes a minute to stat up an enemy/ally/etc.

    I often feel as my groups main ST the struggle between "work" and creativity. The more out of the box something is the more thought i have to put into it and the more i have to write down for it. certainly being an ST is something you have to enjoy to bother putting in a real amount of effort, with that being said Chronicles of Darkness is an intuitive Lego set allowing me to build nearly anything rather quickly and neatly.
    And right now I want lego I can play with rather than just seeing things other people have made with lego.

    Leave a comment:


  • basketcase
    replied
    Maybe I just don't see where your coming from Milo. as I'm not a big fan of our new 2E ghost and spirit rules the idea of a manifestation flow chart is unappealing and by and large I would always want to build from the ground up although that's personal preference.

    what type of Hogoblin were you interested in building? why are the lack of defined monster making rules holding you back?
    you mentioned a lack of guidlines. but I'm not so sure this is the case. Hogoblins use normal attributes and skills, figured characteristics (health, willpower, speed, defense) all equate to stander character creation rules, Hogoblins have a Wyrd rating based on there connection to Arcadia,fate,the hedge,Wyrd itself. Contracts work as usual. glamour works as usual. plus having the added benefit of having never been human means a Hogoblin can literally be any alive Hedge native of any size, shape, power level, narrative purpose, moral alignment,.... and of course if you think it should be able to do something not quite covered by the rules then it can do that to.
    None of this I would consider a homebrew, this is changeling as written.

    I often feel as my groups main ST the struggle between "work" and creativity. The more out of the box something is the more thought i have to put into it and the more i have to write down for it. certainly being an ST is something you have to enjoy to bother putting in a real amount of effort, with that being said Chronicles of Darkness is an intuitive Lego set allowing me to build nearly anything rather quickly and neatly.

    Leave a comment:


  • Vent0
    replied
    Originally posted by BronzeDog View Post
    I understand where Milo is coming from. It can be hard working from a blank slate every time. Having lots of example creatures to bring in when you're coming up short, or to build variations on would be nice.
    Is there a thread on sample Hobgoblins and Hedgebeasts already? Because that sounds like a useful resource for these kind of situations.

    Leave a comment:


  • BronzeDog
    replied
    I understand where Milo is coming from. It can be hard working from a blank slate every time. Having lots of example creatures to bring in when you're coming up short, or to build variations on would be nice.

    Leave a comment:


  • milo v3
    replied
    Originally posted by Satchel View Post
    You don't use Hedgebeasts for humanoid fae. A Hedgebeast is specifically the kind of Hedge-dwelling creature that is morphologically and behaviorally analogous to an animal.
    Sorry, should I have said Hobgoblins rather than Hedgebeast. Seems I mis-remembered which of the two terms included the other in 1e.

    Originally posted by basketcase View Post
    The exact reason I love changeling is that Hedgebeasts and Hobgoblins in general are mechanically undefined.
    To me if I have to "homebrew 50% of the NPC's and encounters without even guidelines" every single time I want to run a game that's not fun. I use rulesets so I don't have to make up content every five minutes. I'm fine with a bit of homebrewing here and there (I've made a really decent amount of 3.P homebrew over the years) or during campaign creation (like making the courts of the region at the start of the campaign), but not for 90% of the creatures you'll encounter in the hedge, not without something like pandoran-type rules, horror-type rules, or spirit-type rules or something.

    Playing like this you need the monster making mechanic to be a rather fast and loose and build them from the ground up.
    I'd say the other monsters that have creation rules seemed to fast and loose. Ephemeral creatures and horrors alone can cover so much ground.
    Last edited by milo v3; 10-06-2016, 01:21 AM.

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  • basketcase
    replied
    The exact reason I love changeling is that Hedgebeasts and Hobgoblins in general are mechanically undefined. if i want a snake with two heads and no tail i make its stats; including Wyrd, Contracts, personality level of intelligence. Whatever.

    Changeling becomes the anything game very quickly in regards to making your own Hogoblins, Kiths, tokens, goblinfruit and Fae and the infinite amount societies including but really not limited to Freehold, Courts, Goblin Markets, Arcadia, and the very Hedge which i'd say around 70% of my games take place.

    Playing like this you need the monster making mechanic to be a rather fast and loose and build them from the ground up. it also helps that there are numerous example Hedgebeasts and Hobgoblins written throughout the game line.

    Leave a comment:

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