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  • Changeling/Werewolf Crossover?

    Having just been introduced to a Vampire/Changeling crossover, I am curious to see if there is a plan for a werewolf/changeling type character in the works. There are several entities/spirits that could be used as a model. The gwyllgi (Welsh pronunciation: [ˈɡwɪɬɡi]; compound noun of either gwyllt "wild" or gwyll "twilight" + ci "dog"[1]) is a mythical dog from Wales that appears as a frightful apparition of a mastiff or Black Wolf (similar to a Dire wolf) with baleful breath and blazing red eyes.
    It is often referred to as "The Dog of Darkness" or "The Black Hound of Destiny"[citation needed], the apparition's favourite haunt being lonely roads at night.
    There have been many sighting of this beast in the north east of Wales. Specifically, the Nant y Garth pass located near Llandegla in Denbighshire. It has even been spotted as far away as Marchwiel in Wrexham and as to this day there are still many sighting of this fearsome creature.

    In Welsh mythology and folklore, Cŵn Annwn (Welsh pronunciation: [kuːn ˈanʊn], "hounds of Annwn") were the spectral hounds of Annwn, the otherworld of Welsh myth. They were associated with a form of the Wild Hunt, presided over by either Arawn, king of Annwn in the First Branch of the Mabinogi and alluded to in the Fourth, or by Gwyn ap Nudd as the underworld king and king of the fair(y) folk is named in later medieval lore.
    In Wales, they were associated with migrating geese, supposedly because their honking in the night is reminiscent of barking dogs.
    Hunting grounds for the Cŵn Annwn are said to include the mountain of Cadair Idris, where it is believed "the howling of these huge dogs foretold death to anyone who heard them".[citation needed]
    According to Welsh folklore, their growling is loudest when they are at a distance, and as they draw nearer, it grows softer and softer. Their coming is generally seen as a death portent.

    Black Shuck, Old Shuck, Old Shock or simply Shuck is the name given to a ghostly black dog which is said to roam the coastline and countryside of East Anglia. Accounts of the animal form part of the folklore of Norfolk, Suffolk, the Cambridgeshire fens and Essex.[2][3]
    The name Shuck may derive from the Old English word scucca meaning "demon", or possibly from the local dialect word shucky meaning "shaggy" or "hairy".[4]
    Black Shuck is one of many ghostly black dogs recorded across the British Isles.[5] Sometimes recorded as an omen of death, sometimes a more companionable animal, it is classified as a cryptid, and there are varying accounts of the animal's appearance.[4][6] Writing in 1877, Walter Rye stated that Shuck was "the most curious of our local apparitions, as they are no doubt varieties of the same animal.[7]
    Its alleged appearance in 1577 at Bungay and Blythburgh is a particularly famous account of the beast, and images of black sinister dogs have become part of the iconography of the area and have appeared in popular culture.[1]

    Barghest, also spelled Barguest, orBargest, in folklore of northern England (especially Yorkshire), a monstrous, goblin dog, with huge teeth and claws, that appears only at night. It was believed that those who saw one clearly would die soon after, while those who caught only a glimpse of the beast would live on, but only for some months. The Demon of Tidworth, the Black Dog of Winchester, the Padfoot of Wakefield, and the Barghest of Burnley are all related apparitions. Their Welsh counterparts were red-eyed Gwyllgi, the Dog of Darkness, and Cwn Annwn, the Dogs of Hell. In Lancashire the monster was called Trash, Skriker, or Striker; its broad, sometimes backward-pointing feet made a splashing noise, and it howled horribly. In East Anglia, where it was thought to be amphibious, the dog had only one eye and was known as Black Shuck, or Shock. It was called Mauthe Doog on the Isle of Man. The Manchester Barghest was said to be headless.
    [END-1ST-PARA]


    The Church Grim, Kirk Grim, Kyrkogrim (Swedish) or Kirkonväki (Finnish) is a figure from English and Scandinavian folklore, said to be an attendant spirit, overseeing the welfare of its particular church. English Church Grims are said to enjoy loudly ringing the bells. They may appear as black dogs (even as other animals, such as rams, horses, roosters or ravens) or as small, misshapen, dark-skinned people.[1]
    The Swedish Kyrkogrim are said to be the spirits of animals sacrificed by early Christians at the building of a new church.[2] In parts of Europe, including Britain and Scandinavia, it was believed that the first man buried in a new churchyard had to guard it against the Devil. To save a human soul from the duty, a completely black dog would be buried alive on the north side of the churchyard, creating a guardian spirit, the church grim, to protect the church.[3]
    The Scandinavian and Nordic Kyrkogrim or Kirkonväki can also occasionally appear as pale-skinned 'ghosts', said to be the spirits of the folk who lived in the proximity of the church that they now 'guard'. William Henderson in his 1878 Folk-Lore of the Northern Counties[4] attributes it to a foundation sacrifice and points out that the Kirkogrim of Sweden appears in the form of a lamb, which in the early days in Christianity in Sweden was buried under the altar. The Kirkegrim of Denmark took the form of a ‘grave-sow'.[5]


  • #2
    I'm not sure about anything official, but I'm planning on homebrewing one. Thank you for sharing all these little tidbits. I found them quite interesting.


    Currently working on: DtD Night Horrors: Enemy Action
    Projects I've contributed to: C20 Anthology of Dreams ("No Such Thing As Dragons")

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    • #3
      I thought of another way that there could be a werewolf/changeling crossover. Pure packs whose totem is one of the True Fae. The Anshega sometimes act as huntsmen for the True Fae, hunting down escaped Changelings. They will also sometimes give captured, Urdaga, failed Anshega, as well as captured humans to the True Fae. in exchange, the True Fae gives them access to contracts, helps them navigate the Hedge, and teaches them some forms of dream magic.

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      • #4
        Originally posted by Madhatter View Post
        I thought of another way that there could be a werewolf/changeling crossover. Pure packs whose totem is one of the True Fae. The Anshega sometimes act as huntsmen for the True Fae, hunting down escaped Changelings. They will also sometimes give captured, Urdaga, failed Anshega, as well as captured humans to the True Fae. in exchange, the True Fae gives them access to contracts, helps them navigate the Hedge, and teaches them some forms of dream magic.
        This is an interesting idea. Oddly enough, the Cu Sith that I've been working on tend to operate in a similar fashion. After all, the wolf must hunt, and what better to hunt than some wayward servants of your current master? Of course, that would be for the Cu Sith that haven't fled yet.


        Currently working on: DtD Night Horrors: Enemy Action
        Projects I've contributed to: C20 Anthology of Dreams ("No Such Thing As Dragons")

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        • #5
          I had some thoughts on your Cu Sith that I wanted to share with you. I believe that when a werewolf is transformed into a Cu Sith, their spirit and wolf nature is transformed completely fae (inspired by Equinox Road 1e which describes how spirits will transform into hobgoblins in the Hedge). As such, they should have a different condition than Admonitoria's balance.

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          • #6
            Question? Are Pure wolves more likely to be spirited away than Forsaken wolves, because they are not protected by Luna?

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            • #7
              No, they have other entities protecting them.

              Technically Ghost Wolves would be most likely to be taken.

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              • #8
                For the Cu Sith that I'm working on, it is the nuzusul (I hope I spelled that right) that are taken, often without the Keeper fully realizing what they're getting into. The Cu Sith goes through the First Change as they are being shaped by their Keeper, ending up caught between the wolf and fae states. They are torn between 3 worlds, rather than two. I don't plan to use Balance as their Integrity replacement, but I haven't yet decided how I am going to handle it.


                Currently working on: DtD Night Horrors: Enemy Action
                Projects I've contributed to: C20 Anthology of Dreams ("No Such Thing As Dragons")

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                • #9
                  Do you plan to have the spirit aspect of the werewolf become fae? Also, what is the Cu Sith's relationship with spirits?

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                  • #10
                    I have been thinking about it and some thoughts popped into my mind. I DO think that the Keeper would have a certain degree of control over the nuzusul's First Change, while in Arcadia. The True Fae control the laws of physics and nature in their realms so it would make sense to me that they could control the young werewolf's transformation to a certain degree. I agree with you (White Oak Dragon) that Pure Tribe or Forsaken Tribe werewolves falling into the True Fae's hand's would be much rarer, but I do think there would be cases where this happens; a Pure/Forsaken werewolf falling into the Keeper's hands by the trickery of a loyalist, a Pure Tribe werewolf being given to the True Fae for failing their Tribe, Or a Forsaken werewolf being given the True Fae by the Pure.

                    Also, from what little has been revealed about the True Fae states that they have been given a power boost, so the True Fae might be able to handle werewolves in their own realm of the Hedge at least.

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                    • #11
                      Oh, it could definitely happen. I'm planning on mentioning it as one of the rumors about them in the text. It would be rare even for something as rare as the Cu Sith to have been taken after the Change, thanks to their packs and spirit allies. Mostly, such events would happen to lone Ghost Wolves. As for the spirit side of things, they would still have that, although they will lack auspices. Spirits in general would view them kind of like how they'd view magath or the servants of the idigam. A Cu Sith wishing for a new Shadow Gift had best start hunting.


                      Currently working on: DtD Night Horrors: Enemy Action
                      Projects I've contributed to: C20 Anthology of Dreams ("No Such Thing As Dragons")

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                      • #12
                        How spirits view Cu Sith would depend on the spirit's relationship with the Hedge, and even the True Fae and Arcadia. In 1e, Equinox Road, we learned that spirits will turn into hobgoblins if the spend enough time in the Hedge (this was the inspiration for the spirit part of the werewolf being transformed into Fae).

                        Also, I don't think it would be as difficult for a True Fae to capture a werewolf after their change and they join a Tribe. In 1e, if a werewolf enters the Hedge, they lose access to their spirit gifts unless the spirit enters the hedge with them (and risks the transformation into the Hedge). From what little has been revealed about the Hedge in 2e, I can see a similar thing happening. As such, I see spirits being very hesitant to follow the Werewolf into the Hedge. Forsaken might also find that Luna's mark does not protect them in the Hedge. Also, the wolf might be tricked into following a changeling into the Hedge, where the True Fae could capture them. Another example is that the werewolf might be given to the True Fae by other werewolves.

                        Depending on how strong the True Fae are in 2e, the might be able to take a werewolf on, even in beast man mode.

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Madhatter View Post
                          In 1e, if a werewolf enters the Hedge, they lose access to their spirit gifts unless the spirit enters the hedge with them (and risks the transformation into the Hedge).
                          The advantages given to packs by their totem are different from spirit gifts, which are the powers of werewolves and don't require any external power or entity once they've been written onto the werewolf's soul.

                          Furthermore, second edition's werewolf has acknowledged that stranger things than spirits can act as a 'totem' for a pack, or even a Lodge. Things like the true fae, for instance.
                          Last edited by nofather; 11-18-2016, 05:43 PM.

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                          • #14
                            Exactly, Earlier in this thread, I list the idea for Pure Tribes whose pack totem is one of the True Fae. These packs could be one way that True Fae are able to get their hands on Forsaken werewolves and failed pure wolves.

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                            • #15
                              I know Earlier in this thread, I describe the idea for Pure Tribe werewolves whose pack totem is one of the True Fae. Instead of Gifts, the True Fae give them access to contracts. This could be one of the ways True Fae are able to get their hands on Forsaken wolves and failed Pure Tribe Wolves.

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