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Demons and True Fae or Arcadia in general

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  • Demons and True Fae or Arcadia in general

    I am just wondering are Demons capable of taking on True Fae using their embeds and exploits in Arcadia or are they unable to use it because of the hedge.

  • #2
    Demons should be able to use their powers in the Hedge as long as it doesn't require specifically being out of the hedge, like being near infrastructure. However True Fae in Arcadia are a force to be Reckoned with.

    But its not unreasonable for A demon, or more likely a Circle of Demons, to stake out their own turf in Arcadia or the Hedge. In Theory after all some may have done this, and now number among the Fae, if not the actual origins of the Gentry themselves.


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    • #3
      I could see a group of Unchained carving out their own little Hell somewhere in Arcadia.


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      • #4
        I've never really gotten into CtL, but is there a book that specifically explains the Hedge in such a way that I could use it for crossover?


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        • #5
          Originally posted by Octavo View Post
          I've never really gotten into CtL, but is there a book that specifically explains the Hedge in such a way that I could use it for crossover?
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          • #6
            Originally posted by Satchel View Post
            Dancers in the Dusk.
            Thank you!


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            • #7
              Taking on a Gentry, in a fight, inside one of their own domains within Faerie?


              No. Vampire Methusalah couldn't. Archmages would fall. Luna would likely be unable to do so either. If it was just inside the Hedge and not Faerie proper? That'd be another matter.

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              • #8
                Originally posted by MCN View Post
                Taking on a Gentry, in a fight, inside one of their own domains within Faerie?


                No. Vampire Methusalah couldn't. Archmages would fall. Luna would likely be unable to do so either.
                Let's not be nonsensical. Luna's scale warrants more in the vein of war on Faerie.


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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Satchel View Post
                  Let's not be nonsensical. Luna's scale warrants more in the vein of war on Faerie.
                  And Archmage scale doesn't? Methuselah wouldn't play a terribly complex chess-master game?
                  I rattled them off because they're all god level beings. Gentry could likely take any of them within their own domain. Put same Gentry into the Hisil or Astral? Or whatever shadowy Lower Depth realm the strix call home? The respective god-level being will hold the advantage.


                  An Exile, or whatever the demon equivalent to an archmage/methuselah/true fae/spirit god is, would likely stand a chance against the Gentry if he/she had Infrastructure to back her.
                  Last edited by MCN; 03-27-2014, 07:46 PM.

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                  • #10
                    Given that Gentry pretty much -are- their Domain, yeah... in most cases all you're fucking around with is an individual Title/manifestation anyhow without ever directly confronting the thing (well, if you use Equinox Road).

                    Even running by by Imperial Mysteries guideline ideas for god-tier things (which I can take or leave), Gentry usually are higher than your "average" Archmage, and they don't really play by "the rules" very well regardless. "Oh, you conquered faerie? That's a nice story. But in my story that didn't happen. Have fun with your own reality shard, we've got more interesting things to do after that conflict gets boring". Linear event progression and time. Meh.

                    Even then, they were what, Rank 7-ish as discrete entities? Luna herself was presented as Rank 8 if memory serves (and even then, the broad rankings really don't account for what they can respectively do individually outside of the broadest tacked on assumptions. Someone who's got handy access right now can correct me there. Honestly, once you're on that 6+ scale it's pretty irrelevant anyhow beyond theoretical "maybes". It's so damn up in the air as to not matter. Anything could happen.

                    And for the record, I'd see Luna as a little bitch in Arcadia anyhow regardless of her Rank. She's one spirit, massive in scope and scale and allies, but -still- dealing with a literal host of exceedingly powerful gods that don't play by her rules. War on faerie? Not bloody likely anymore than the Oracles or others truly conquered it in a meaningful way. Much the same in reverse with the Gentry going after The Shadow; it's effectively war on an entire divergent reality, not just the individuals present.

                    You don't waltz into the mouth of hell, then complain about it not conforming to your expectations.

                    As is, we don't really know what the full cap/heights of vampires even are. You get odd allusions to the Tremere, Archmages of Vampirism as potentials by some writers and other tidbits here and there in other gamelines, nevermind who the hell knows what The Blood itself is really all about; odds are there are god-tier vampires out there just as much a threat (and honestly, once you're dealing with that level you're not really using the base mechanics on any splats end anyhow).

                    Odds are likely that you won't ever see them definied to any extent because it's not really relevant to anything in V:tR except fanboy pet splat battles and occasionally putting some context down for Mage when it's going into Tier-4-esque craziness. Gods of the Blood? The Great Darkness the Strix come from? Something else entirely? Who knows. But what Vampire game are you going to be playing where that's ever really going to be important enough? Once you're playing that scope, the game becomes something -drastically- different. Odds are the vampiric entity does too.
                    Last edited by Tatterdemalion King; 03-27-2014, 08:12 PM.


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                    • #11
                      when i read on how demons get in Arcadia they cant get out without the help of a changeling or denizen of the hedge apparently demon got the exploit called rip the gates where they can enter any world that on world of darkness and for arcadia if they were to enter they can only get out when a person has the power to open the doors.
                      Last edited by reaperfrost8; 03-27-2014, 08:25 PM.

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Tatterdemalion King View Post
                        And for the record, I'd see Luna as a little bitch in Arcadia anyhow regardless of her Rank. She's one spirit, massive in scope and scale and allies, but -still- dealing with a literal host of exceedingly powerful gods that don't play by her rules. War on faerie? Not bloody likely anymore than the Oracles or others truly conquered it in a meaningful way.
                        I was speaking in terms of the fact that there are Rank 7 Lunes on the books that by definition answer to Luna and a single Fae does not equate to a/the Queen of the Shadow any more than it does the G-M or the Horsemen.

                        Luna is more likely to engage with the Fae as a group because getting to her Rank is impossible without changing the fundamental nature of the universe. UnAscended archmagi and greater Incarnae, subsouls and Royal Avatars aside, can more or less still be interacted with as individuals, however powerful. The Fae don't have enough of a stable position in the world that they can be placed above that point without getting into speculation on Wyrd Transcendence. You don't compare Fae to the God-Machine, you compare them to archangels; ditto comparisons to Luna and the Lunes.


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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by reaperfrost8 View Post
                          when i read on how demons get in Arcadia they cant get out without the help of a changeling or denizen of the hedge apparently demon got the exploit called rip the gates where they can enter any world that on world of darkness and for arcadia if they were to enter they can only get out when a person has the power to open the doors.
                          Rip the Doors is... problematic. I mean, yeah, you can appear in the Hisil, Underworld, Hedge (note! the Hedge is very much not the same as Faerie/Arcadia), or Astral. But it doesn't promise an easy exit back out of any of those realms. As well, there's still potentially Gears there.

                          Or, even worse, no God Machine, and you're completely cut off from any supply of aether. At which point, you're in a hostile land with a very limited amount of ammo. And no promise of safe escape. Nothing stops Embeds, Exploits, Gadgets or Demon Forms from working in those four realms (though, in Faerie/Arcadia properly, all bets are off). But you don't have a lot of juice, and you're in hostile territory.

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Satchel View Post
                            I was speaking in terms of the fact that there are Rank 7 Lunes on the books that by definition answer to Luna and a single Fae does not equate to a/the Queen of the Shadow any more than it does the G-M or the Horsemen.

                            Luna is more likely to engage with the Fae as a group because getting to her Rank is impossible without changing the fundamental nature of the universe. UnAscended archmagi and greater Incarnae, subsouls and Royal Avatars aside, can more or less still be interacted with as individuals, however powerful. The Fae don't have enough of a stable position in the world that they can be placed above that point without getting into speculation on Wyrd Transcendence. You don't compare Fae to the God-Machine, you compare them to archangels; ditto comparisons to Luna and the Lunes.
                            The only thing that I could think that can actually fight Luna is the god machine himself.

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Satchel View Post
                              Let's not be nonsensical. Luna's scale warrants more in the vein of war on Faerie.
                              Ultimately, the Gentry operate in an entirely different way to Luna, along with any of the other Gods. Luna has a defined set of powers, enormous yes, but she has her limits and they are defined by... lets call them the laws of physics for simplicity.

                              The True Fae on the other hand only have the powers and limitations that they agree to. If they refuse to agree that Luna can hurt them (and they haven't already made pacts Luna can use), then She can't hurt them, simple as that. Of course, fair is fair. If Luna (/ Luna's reflection in the Wyrd) doesn't agree to be hurt then the Gentry can't touch her.


                              A fight between Luna and a True Fae would go one of three ways:

                              1) The True Fae has already made agreements that Luna can exploit, it's probably dead.
                              2) The True Fae and Luna start by agreeing a set of rules, this would probably give the True Fae a modest advantage because the Gentry has a homefield advantage at negotiations; it wants an interesting story so it can't be too powerful but it also to win (think of the difference between a 0-35 exp Changeling and the Arcadian Huntsman in the corebook)
                              3) The True Fae and Luna can't agree on rules, and no fight happens.



                              Finally. Imperial Mysteries is a Mage book. Neither Luna or the True Fae are form Mage, so it's not really relevant to this discussion.


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