Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Angelic Cover

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #16
    Originally posted by Satchel View Post
    The ability to perceive active Infrastructure does not give you a sense for whether something is a product of Infrastructure. If there's something less solid than actual cover blocking a project from registering to mortals, be it spatial folding or a run-of-the-mill pay-it-no-mind field, the Unchained can see the hidden structure or its interface within conventional space, but a Cover is an actual body keeping an angel from casual detection and thus a lot more substantial than a magical baffle that tells you This Is A Rich Cis-Male Puerto Rican Banker Named Guillermo Mercado, Pay No Attention To His Glowing Eyes And Massive Wingspan.
    If only the rules actually said that.


    Genius templates (for Demon: the Descent)

    Rakshasa: the Kingdom (Featuring the Extinction Chronicle) [WIP]

    Comment


    • #17
      Originally posted by Agentwestmer View Post
      Bunyip, great information, and I hope we get in some version of it in a future supplement.

      But questions:

      what you've just described is much more robust than what's described in the Mortal Mask Numina (and Innocuous, for that matter), and several Angels have it. What benefit does an Angel have from Mortal Mask, when G-M provides a much more versatile option that doesn't eat up a Numina slot?

      Second, on page 183 of DTD, it says "The methods of magical occlusion the God-Machine uses to mask its works from mortal eyes do not function against the Unchained." Onyx path has the tendency to veer poetic when describing rules, but the statement seems to rule out a distinction between Infrastructure and Output in terms of what demons can't see.

      Finally, is the G-m generated cover a function of the same Occult Matrix that summoned the angel in the first place, or is a second Matrix necessary?

      I've always treated mortal mask as something that lets an angel change its form at will for a mission. So if it need to lets say become someones sister after killing her when its orginal cover was lets say the old man down the street then it can do that

      Comment


      • #18
        Originally posted by milo v3 View Post
        If only the rules actually said that.
        You should probably come up with an example of where the rules say differently, because this is just a threadcrap post otherwise. Don't do it again, thank you.


        Onyx Path Forum Administrator
        Posts in this color are moderator posts
        Posts in this color mean a Great Old One has driven me mad.
        Forum Terms of Use
        the Contact Us link.

        Comment


        • #19
          Originally posted by Darksider View Post

          You should probably come up with an example of where the rules say differently, because this is just a threadcrap post otherwise. Don't do it again, thank you.
          It says differently in the very thing Satchel is responding to "The methods of magical occlusion the God-Machine uses to mask its works from mortal eyes do not function against the Unchained." It's obvious that Demons aren't meant to be able to see through Angelic cover, and I actually agree with Satchel's justification as a handwave on why it "might work different", it's just that the justification isn't written in the books. So I wish the book said it rather than these threads coming up repeatedly, especially since I myself got confused with angelic cover stuff previously (Took me a decent while to get used to the natural language of CofD).

          That said, I was not attempting to threadcrap or be hostile, I'll take more care in how I write my posts (looking back I can see how my post could be interpreted as hostile).
          Last edited by milo v3; 01-03-2017, 01:30 AM.


          Genius templates (for Demon: the Descent)

          Rakshasa: the Kingdom (Featuring the Extinction Chronicle) [WIP]

          Comment


          • #20
            Cover is not Infrastructure, they are entirely separate things. A Demon's ability to see Infrastructure does not give the Demon the ability to see through Cover, nor does it cause the product/output of any given set of Infrastructure to automatically stand out to a Demon. That seems like the point Satchel is making, and the book does explain them as different things the way Satchel describes in his post.


            Onyx Path Forum Administrator
            Posts in this color are moderator posts
            Posts in this color mean a Great Old One has driven me mad.
            Forum Terms of Use
            the Contact Us link.

            Comment


            • #21
              milo v3, As Darksider said, the argument being presented is that angelic cover is a form of output, not Infrastructure. Therefore the cover itself (and the angel using it) can't be automatically detected by demons, but an enterprising ring could potentially try to identify undercover angels by disrupting Logistical and Concealment Infrastructure that they find and then following the trail to see what changes happen 'downstream'.

              The section you quote specifically refers to demons being able to see through the tricks the God-Machine uses to conceal Infrastructure. Regardless of whether the Infrastructure in question is used for angelic cover maintenance, or time distorting fields, or simply ensuring that one specific apartment in a building always remains vacant, there's nothing to suggest that demons can automatically tell specifically what a given piece of Infrastructure does, how it fits in with the rest of an occult matrix, or what output may have come from/be coming from it.

              Don't forget that DtD is a game of techgnostic espionage. It's about intelligence gathering and piecing together the puzzle. Sure the demons can tell if something is Infrastructure if they can see it*, but that's just the start of their investigations. They then need to follow the threads and do the work to unravel the enemy's plans.

              * An important part of what you quoted is "magical occlusion". The second paragraph of that section indicates that demons have no special ability to see Infrastructure that is hidden by purely mundane means. A specific room of Infrastructure deep within a large apartment complex isn't going to signal the entire building as Infrastructure to demons who just happen to be walking by.


              Writes stuff. Sometimes you like it.
              WoD | Changing Breeds, Umbra, Book of the Wyrm, Shattered Dreams CofD | Werewolf: The Forsaken 2nd ed, Idigam Anthology, The Pack, Demon Storyteller's Guide, Hurt Locker, Dark Eras Companion, Beast Player's Guide, Deviant: The Renegades
              The Trinity Continuum | Æon

              Comment


              • #22
                Originally posted by Bunyip View Post
                * An important part of what you quoted is "magical occlusion". The second paragraph of that section indicates that demons have no special ability to see Infrastructure that is hidden by purely mundane means. A specific room of Infrastructure deep within a large apartment complex isn't going to signal the entire building as Infrastructure to demons who just happen to be walking by.
                That's actually why I interpret it as demons seeing through the output. Since all magical occlusion of the G-M to hide it's works sounds like it's innately going to be the output of concealment infrastructure because of it's magical nature. Though, I do think it's obvious it's meant to be "different". I just feel it could be more clear in the text because I am more used to a different style of RPG writing than the one CofD utilises.
                Last edited by milo v3; 01-03-2017, 08:18 AM.


                Genius templates (for Demon: the Descent)

                Rakshasa: the Kingdom (Featuring the Extinction Chronicle) [WIP]

                Comment

                Working...
                X