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Looking for suggestions to get players to want to hit inferstrctures

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  • Looking for suggestions to get players to want to hit inferstrctures

    I'm current running a demon game and have run into an interesting problem. The players currently refuse to hit any infrastructures because they see it as a idiotic thing to do. So they have a player who has a cult and using context matters so they can sit in full demon form around the cult to generate aether in full demon from. They dump the aether into an objects and keep doing it over and over so they don't need to go to an infrastructure to get aether. I've suggested other reason they should hit an infrastructure but they just flat our refuse.

    They seem to want nothing to do with the god-machine and will even ignore demon contacts asking for help if they even think an angel is involved.

    the process the player is using to just generate aether

    Full Demon Form, Dump Aether, Roll to refill self once all aether is gone. Repeat over and over till I have a large store.
    Last edited by Basic; 03-10-2017, 10:36 AM.

  • #2
    Stockpiles ping Aetheric resonance in a way that Context Matters isn't going to help at all; cryptids are going to ruin their day.

    Consider rats, worms, and other pests and their utility to angelic tracking.


    Resident Sanguinary Analyst
    Currently Consuming: Changeling: the Lost 1e

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    • #3
      To be honest, I worry this represents a fundamental problem. It sounds like your players aren't buying into Demon, precisely, if they're trying to completely avoid the God-Machine in all forms.A core part of the game is hiding from It, naturally, but it's a spy game. You need to watch the enemy (or how will you know what they''re going to do?). Now, you could have their avoidance of all the plot threads from other demons start to blow up as demon contacts go dark and they start to realise they're out of the loop and something big is happening, but a conversation might be better.

      Why aren't they engaging with the Machine? Is it fear, are they afraid the GM (via you, the ST), will hurt them and ruin all their fun? I've seen shell-shocked players who've played under punitive 'gotcha!' style STs before, afraid of taking risks because they always get hurt in ways that aren't fun - might this be the problem?.


      Onyx Path Freelancer: Demon Storyteller's Guide, Dark Eras
      Storyteller's Guide Extra Material
      After the Fall: Bonus Material

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      • #4
        I would say that getting comfortable and thinking they've gamed the system is -exactly- the sort of thing to take advantage of. They'll get complacent, they'll lose their place at the table. Their contacts and connections will eventually give up on them. Then their former fellows might be killed, compromised or co-opted. Maybe an Integrator gets a hold of some information about them and uses it.

        Inaction has as much consequence as action.


        "The phrase 'flies on the heads of pins' appeared 43 times in that journal, sometimes in the middle of sentences or written in the margins."

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        • #5
          Normally I'd not reply to a thread like this, as it is a GM looking for advice and my coming here is gaming the system as it were, since I was a player in the game this is referencing. However, I feel there's a fundamental problem in how the situation is being elaborated. As someone who was a part of that game, I can say it's not that hitting Infrastructure was a stupid idea, it's that it felt like it was a suicidal idea, because most of the aether dumps we found were in incredibly dangerous areas they have no logic of being in. One Infrastructure I remember us going to was a coffee shop where the aether dump was in the manager's office with the linchpin as well...where the manager was an Angel. Another player found one that had the aether being stored in propane tanks inside of a gas station where nobody was working, nobody was attending it and no customers were coming in. There was a third where the aether was collecting in computer monitors, but those monitors were also in the same room as the linchpin, which would logically have the highest security of the entire infrastructure.

          This all implies the God-Machine is not only aware of the aether in the first place, but that it is guarding it to prevent Demons from getting at it or trying to lure them into traps. Trying to get to the aether from infrastructure in this situation is a task tantamount to walking into a minefield just to get the food and water you need to survive. It's doable, and I know aether shouldn't be easy to get to, but these scenarios are also something that low Primum Demons are sorely under-equipped to do.

          I've been confused by this, because in the books, the God-Machine and its Angels are repeatedly mentioned as being unable to detect aether, to the point of requiring Cryptids to sniff it out, and that aether from an Infrastructure is a waste product. It's like setting up sentries to protect the smoke coming out of a coal production plant, or the heat from an area filled with light bulbs. I don't know if this is universal, but it made all the infrastructure the group and I came across feel much more Herculean to tackle than it should be.

          Again, I apologize for posting here. I just wanted to give another perspective on the matter so that advice can better remedy the problem; if it seems like I was trying to undermine the original poster, that was not my intention and I'm sorry for coming off that way. I remember having fun with the other players in the game, it's just that planning to get into a single infrastructure for aether without getting caught or hurt was taking several sessions, during which time we were using quite a bit of aether.

          I should note, the reason I'm not in this group anymore is because of differences between my roleplaying and other members of the group that caused our characters to conflict in non-conductive ways. It was entirely player based.
          Last edited by Taidragon; 03-10-2017, 09:01 PM.

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          • #6
            Originally posted by Taidragon View Post
            Another player found one that had the aether being stored in propane tanks inside of a gas station where nobody was working, nobody was attending it and no customers were coming in.
            How is getting aether from their suicidal?


            Genius templates (for Demon: the Descent)

            Rakshasa: the Kingdom (Featuring the Extinction Chronicle) [WIP]

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            • #7
              Originally posted by milo v3 View Post
              How is getting aether from their suicidal?
              What gas station would be unattended, open to the public and have no customers coming in, yet has aether in the propane tanks inside the building?

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              • #8
                Originally posted by milo v3 View Post
                How is getting aether from their suicidal?

                If no one goes there, and some people (the Demon PCs) start dropping by all the time, what are they doing there? Might they bare investigation? Isn't investigation poison to the Unchained?

                One thing they could do, if they don't mind risk someone else, it get others to start visiting the gas station to build up some decoys and false positives for investigation.


                Malkydel: "And the Machine dictated; let there be adequate illumination."
                Yossarian: "And lo, it was optimal."

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Taidragon View Post

                  What gas station would be unattended, open to the public and have no customers coming in, yet has aether in the propane tanks inside the building?
                  I'm not saying don't scope it out, but in that case it is a place that is completely unguarded. It's the complete opposite of your complaint. Is it suspicious? Yes. Is there any indication attempting to get aether from the location is risky? No.


                  Genius templates (for Demon: the Descent)

                  Rakshasa: the Kingdom (Featuring the Extinction Chronicle) [WIP]

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                  • #10
                    I should do some clarification right now; after speaking with the GM, it's apparent there was a disconnect between what was intended and what was heard with the coffee shop infrastructure. I apparently misinterpreted what I was told, in that the aether apparently was being dumped elsewhere (which we presumed was actually part of the infrastructure proper) and not in the manager's office, but given how everyone reacted I don't know if it was just me or not because I could swear on it that the linchpin and the aetheric dump were both in the same place.

                    The gas station infrastructure was scouted by another of our players, and he pegged it as being too suspicious; I did not attend it myself, so I do not know all the details.

                    In retrospect, the group probably overreacted a fair bit.
                    Last edited by Taidragon; 03-10-2017, 08:48 PM.

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Taidragon View Post
                      I've been confused by this, because in the books, the God-Machine and its Angels are repeatedly mentioned as being unable to detect aether, to the point of requiring Cryptids to sniff it out, and that aether from an Infrastructure is a waste product. It's like setting up sentries to protect the smoke coming out of a coal production plant, or the heat from an area filled with light bulbs.
                      Angels have no direct analogue to Aetheric resonance, but the God-Machine is certainly aware that Its activities generate an occult byproduct that its rogue processes take an interest in and naturally aggregate when out of Cover.

                      Also, Aether is established to be capable of creating disasters and turning animals into cryptids if handled carelessly, and the God-Machine has a vested operational interest in secrecy. It's more like if you had a secret factory by the bay that releases sci-fi mutagen as a byproduct of whatever it's supposed to do — simply dumping the materials into the bay is going to give away your secret base when schools of steel-toothed trout haunt the waters and places four blocks away start seeing intermittent rains of blood and/or oil, so if the process permits it you make a waste tank and cart the divine sewage out to get rid of it that way.


                      Resident Sanguinary Analyst
                      Currently Consuming: Changeling: the Lost 1e

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Eremite View Post
                        To be honest, I worry this represents a fundamental problem. It sounds like your players aren't buying into Demon, precisely, if they're trying to completely avoid the God-Machine in all forms.A core part of the game is hiding from It, naturally, but it's a spy game. You need to watch the enemy (or how will you know what they''re going to do?). Now, you could have their avoidance of all the plot threads from other demons start to blow up as demon contacts go dark and they start to realise they're out of the loop and something big is happening, but a conversation might be better.

                        Why aren't they engaging with the Machine? Is it fear, are they afraid the GM (via you, the ST), will hurt them and ruin all their fun? I've seen shell-shocked players who've played under punitive 'gotcha!' style STs before, afraid of taking risks because they always get hurt in ways that aren't fun - might this be the problem?.
                        All this.

                        Worth noting is that Infrastructure is how angels are birthed into physical reality, so shutting down Infrastructure is a matter of survival: do you want to shut down a performance of the Scottish Play at Midnight on a full moon, or do you want to deal with a Rank 3 hunter angel? Also, infrastructure requires fuel of some sort to power the occult matrix: some times this is innocuous, like 30 lbs of spinach per day, sometimes it's blood from a local preschool.

                        Most broadly, Infrastructure represents the growing influence of the G-M in an area. Failing to prevent, or at the very least study, a new infrastructure in you're local area can very well be harmless... or it can shunt your town into an alternate time-line, unperson all the people at your child's daycare, or summon a biomechanical abomination to hunt you down.

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