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Angels and the Combat Issue

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  • #46
    Thank you Satchel; not entirely sure I understand it still, but the context helps and is appreciated.

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    • #47
      I'm actually curios, this topic about how weak ephemerals are in combat comes up again and again. How are they weak? How are people stated and in what way do people play to make ephemeral beings weak in combat? Rank 2-3 is enough to be able to TPK if not handled with extreme care.

      I am curios, could the people who think this tell me how they come to this conclusion?

      Edit: To be fair, this is from a non-mage/werewolf point of view, those guys cheat when it comes to these beings.

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      • #48
        Originally posted by Poseur View Post
        I'm actually curios, this topic about how weak ephemerals are in combat comes up again and again. How are they weak? How are people stated and in what way do people play to make ephemeral beings weak in combat? Rank 2-3 is enough to be able to TPK if not handled with extreme care.

        I am curios, could the people who think this tell me how they come to this conclusion?

        Edit: To be fair, this is from a non-mage/werewolf point of view, those guys cheat when it comes to these beings.
        Considering a good deal of such arguments happen in the Mage or Werewolf forums, well...

        Personally I think the reality is closer to “whoever gets in the first shot wins,” or “whoever manages to win without fighting is the true winner.”


        MtAw Homebrew: Even more Legacies, updated to 2E

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        • #49
          Originally posted by 21C Hermit View Post

          Considering a good deal of such arguments happen in the Mage or Werewolf forums, well...

          Personally I think the reality is closer to “whoever gets in the first shot wins,” or “whoever manages to win without fighting is the true winner.”

          Yes but in those regards it's pretty easy to understand why people think they are weak and the splats op against them.
          Well surely that is not the case in most cases. Ephemerals have quite large initiative modifiers and take mostly bashing damage.

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          • #50
            Mages, Werewolves and Sin-Eaters also have a number of advantages against Spirits and Ghosts that the Unchained don't have against Angels. For a start,they can see into Twilight to see their respective ephemerals fairly easily, and interacting with a Ghost or Spirit isn't innately dangerous, and can be beneficial. For Demons (as noted above) seeing into Twilight isn't a simple matter at all, much less the level that Angels exist on, and interacting with Angels one-on-one is a very dangerous prospect no matter the circumstances.

            Another is networking between ephemerals. Ghosts and Spirits rarely cooperate much - Ghosts tend to be stuck in their respective areas, while Spirits have a nasty habit of trying to eat each other to get stronger. Angels are, by their very nature, part of a network and can call upon assistance from others through various means, and so long as their Infrastructure is intact they tend to have places they can retreat to while hurt. Unlike the sites that a Ghost or Spirit hides in, Infrastructure also tends to be fairly harder to disrupt by mundane means. Further, attention from an Angel nine out of ten times means attention from the God-Machine, which nobody wants for obvious reasons. Messing with a Ghost or Spirit does not carry this kind of consequence.

            Then there's the fact that Angels have one massive advantage that Ghosts and Spirits don't: Angels can walk among you without you realizing it. The very nature of Cover means that an Angel is able to walk around without losing essence, giving them far greater mobility than any Ghost or Spirit could profess to owning, and it adds yet another thing Demons need to look out for lest they do something that an Angel would notice. While in Cover an Angel is at least visible and physical, they are still a threat and have access to their own powers, including discorportation.

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