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  • Boneguard
    started a topic Questions about Heirs to Hell

    Questions about Heirs to Hell

    Bored, I was Looking, on DriveThruRPG, at Heirs to Hell and at first glance it seems like it could be a nice addition to WoD Demon: The Fallen. However before committing to it I do have a couple questions I hope you might be able to answers.

    1) Based on the blurb, it looks like a great product, but is it? In broad stokes, what is the actual content?
    2) Would the translation guide be sufficient to convert it over or do I really need to get the Demon: The Descent corebook?
    3) Are any other book needed? Either because they also cover the Children of Demon or add additional rules to play them, etc. (Please indicate why in order to help me).
    4) Anything else I overlooked?

    I'm sure more question will come up, but this should get me started.

    thank you

  • Vent0
    replied
    Originally posted by Boneguard View Post
    Vent0

    That's actually pretty cool mechanics and quite handy. Definitely something to use even in Classic WoD.

    On a side thought, I'm assuming the translation guide was created/updated to 2nd edition rules correct?
    Yes, since Demon was developed in 2E (though before 2E was formalized as such - which is why it lacked the core rules, while the other 2E books have them).

    Leave a comment:


  • Boneguard
    replied
    Vent0

    That's actually pretty cool mechanics and quite handy. Definitely something to use even in Classic WoD.

    On a side thought, I'm assuming the translation guide was created/updated to 2nd edition rules correct?
    Last edited by Boneguard; 05-15-2018, 08:17 PM.

    Leave a comment:


  • Vent0
    replied
    Originally posted by Boneguard View Post

    From what I've understood from my reading, the 2nd edition core rulebook, pretty much combines the 1st edition core rulebook with the God-Machine Chronicle...and Demon the Descent would be strongly rooted in it.

    Sounds about right?
    Yes, though I was talking more specifically about the Investigation system, Chase system, and Horrors system.

    Investigation covers a Mechanical way to run "who did it" plots, and can be adapted to handle other systems (like research). Or any "collection" scenario.

    Chase covers the mechanics of two parties, with one pursuing the other. It can also be adapted to a general espionage track, where the "chase" is abstracted into the counter-intelligence trying to figure out/catch the agent. Or any scenario with two competing actors and the ability to change the dive pool used.

    Both can be handled via a simple roll, of course, but these add some depth and flavor to such encounters.

    The Horror system is for creating material monsters. Potency and Dread Powers allow for a lot of range and flexibility. And the Brief Nightmares sub-section streamlines and speeds up the process further for simpler antagonists.

    Oh, and the Equipment section is handy, too.

    Leave a comment:


  • Stupid Loserman
    replied
    Originally posted by Boneguard View Post

    From what I've understood from my reading, the 2nd edition core rulebook, pretty much combines the 1st edition core rulebook with the God-Machine Chronicle...and Demon the Descent would be strongly rooted in it.

    Sounds about right?
    About right, yeah. (Well, the first half isn't just a 1e rulebook reprint - it covers the equivalent ground, but has new writing and some new systems the 1e rulebook doesn't.) Some of the non-mechanical content from the God-Machine Chronicle was cut for space, and sadly, this mostly consists of the majority of the GMC's Introduction, which was actually a really well written and accessible explanation of the God-Machine mythos, with a sharp eye towards playability and "okay, what do I actually do with this." That material was really good, but not so good that I can say it's worth buying the GMC book separately; the Descent book will attempt to cover the same ground. The rest of the GMC book is reprinted verbatim in the Chronicles of Darkness Rulebook.

    Leave a comment:


  • Boneguard
    replied
    Originally posted by Vent0 View Post

    All else being equal, the 2nd Edition Core Rulebook has some nice plot hooks in the God-Machine Chronicle section, and some good sub-systems in the Chase, Investigation, and Horror sections of the main part.
    From what I've understood from my reading, the 2nd edition core rulebook, pretty much combines the 1st edition core rulebook with the God-Machine Chronicle...and Demon the Descent would be strongly rooted in it.

    Sounds about right?

    Leave a comment:


  • Vent0
    replied
    Originally posted by Boneguard View Post
    Thank you, everyone was quite helpful and this it's great information. A

    s mentioned by ElvesofZion since it's to port over to Demon the Fallen, I might be able to go by the translation book and corebook/appendix as the core mechanic will be Classic WoD.

    But, if I get fully into DtD, or if too much is missing yo translate with ease, I'll get either the 1st ed or the 2nd ed core rule book.
    All else being equal, the 2nd Edition Core Rulebook has some nice plot hooks in the God-Machine Chronicle section, and some good sub-systems in the Chase, Investigation, and Horror sections of the main part.

    Leave a comment:


  • Boneguard
    replied
    Thank you, everyone was quite helpful and this it's great information. A

    s mentioned by ElvesofZion since it's to port over to Demon the Fallen, I might be able to go by the translation book and corebook/appendix as the core mechanic will be Classic WoD.

    But, if I get fully into DtD, or if too much is missing yo translate with ease, I'll get either the 1st ed or the 2nd ed core rule book.

    Leave a comment:


  • xiongrey
    replied
    Originally posted by Stupid Loserman View Post

    I think old hands get confused, because once you've played CofD long enough, you internalize enough of the core rules that you can mentally backfill the missing information in the Rules Update and run the game just referencing that. People without experience in CofD are not going to be able to do that.
    I mean, that might be the case here with me. But looking at Appendix Two now it has:
    1. Descriptions on Aspirations
    2. Extensive Mortal Merits
    3. Description of Beats and Experiences
    4. A note on Virtue and Vice
    5. Extensive notes on What Conditions and Tilts are
    6. How to run Extended Actions and Social Maneuvering
    7. Full description on Combat and with a summary
    8. Lost of weapons/armor and what they do
    9. Description of harm
    10. Full rules for Ephemeral Beings

    ... Although, Now that I'm looking through it, it's not giving anything on what dice to use (10s), what constitutes a failure/success on a role, the nitty gritty of how the health boxes work (/ for bashing, x for lethal, * for Aggravated), and it's missing some descriptions on what attributes and skills even are which I am seeing in other 2nd Edition Core books (like W:tF2e's Chapter 4).

    It looks like the God-Machine Chronicle has a better more complete run-down of the base rules and they're already in 2nd Ed revision. But unlike WoD 1st Edition, it doesn't have (over)detailed descriptions of each skill and attribute and it doesn't have full examples of how health loss is calculated or healed.

    I'd like to think you'd only need the God-Machine Chronicle to understand D:tD if you've never played a White Wolf/Onyx Path game before. But looking back, I'd replace that with the World of Darkness 1st Edition Core and just note that any revisions in Appendix 2 of D:tD generally over wright the equivalent rules stated in the WoD1e Core.

    Leave a comment:


  • Stupid Loserman
    replied
    Originally posted by ElvesofZion View Post


    No it doesn't. It has the God-Machine Update, it still requires the 1e core book to use as others said.
    I think old hands get confused, because once you've played CofD long enough, you internalize enough of the core rules that you can mentally backfill the missing information in the Rules Update and run the game just referencing that. People without experience in CofD are not going to be able to do that.

    Leave a comment:


  • Boneguard
    replied
    Originally posted by xiongrey View Post
    imo, you don't need any other book but D:tD as it has an appendix on the base CofD rules.Not sure where you got that but D:tD definitely has the Stand-Alone rules.
    It might be the case, however in the Corebook description, both on DriveThruRPG and Indie Press Revolution, it is explicitly stated the Word of Darkness Rule Book is required.

    In addition, on DriveThruRPG, both the Demon starter kit and The Demon translation kit include the World of Darkness Rule Book

    I'm sure you are right, DtD could be usable alone with minimal fuss, but by the official description, It's not a stand-alone product.

    ElvesofZion

    That is a fair point. I might hold off on getting it and see how it goes. Worse case, it could be part of a second wave of purchase.
    Last edited by Boneguard; 05-14-2018, 08:10 PM.

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  • ElvesofZion
    replied
    Originally posted by xiongrey View Post
    imo, you don't need any other book but D:tD as it has an appendix on the base CofD rules.Not sure where you got that but D:tD definitely has the Stand-Alone rules.

    No it doesn't. It has the God-Machine Update, it still requires the 1e core book to use as others said.

    On the other hand, for Boneguard since you are planning to use the Translation Guide to run Demon: The Fallen, you may not need the missing rules since they are things that probably won't need to be translated as it is all mortals rules, just use the rules from Fallen.

    Leave a comment:


  • xiongrey
    replied
    imo, you don't need any other book but D:tD as it has an appendix on the base CofD rules.Not sure where you got that but D:tD definitely has the Stand-Alone rules.

    Leave a comment:


  • Boneguard
    replied
    Originally posted by Stupid Loserman View Post
    Any version of the CofD core rules will work. The 1e World of Darkness Rulebook will work (there is an appendix in Demon that covers everything to update it to second edition rules - that's the included rules update mentioned). The 2e Chronicles of Darkness Rulebook will work. Any other Chronicles of Darkness 2e corebook will work too, like Vampire: the Requiem Second Edition, as Demon is the only 2e corebook not to contain the standalone rule system.
    That's unfortunate that Demon does not have a stand alone corebook.

    Since I don't have any NWoD or CofD core rule, it look like I'll need to get it too.

    thank you al, It's really helpful.

    Leave a comment:


  • Stupid Loserman
    replied
    Any version of the CofD core rules will work. The 1e World of Darkness Rulebook will work (there is an appendix in Demon that covers everything to update it to second edition rules - that's the included rules update mentioned). The 2e Chronicles of Darkness Rulebook will work. Any other Chronicles of Darkness 2e corebook will work too, like Vampire: the Requiem Second Edition, as Demon is the only 2e corebook not to contain the standalone rule system.

    Leave a comment:

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