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Where Angels Fear to Tread - Demon Beyond the World of Darkness

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  • Where Angels Fear to Tread - Demon Beyond the World of Darkness

    So, I got to thinking the other day: if it were possible for a Demon to leave the World of Darkness - not just go to the Shadow or something but to truly 'jump' to another world - would they be able to actually operate there? Are their Embeds, Exploits, Covers and so on workable in a world where the God-Machine has no presence? If Covers are sufficiently a 'part' of the Unchained to operate without the G-M, would they degrade at all without Its scrutiny? Would a Demon be able to stay in Demonic Form indefinitely, or just enter it 'for free' in shorter bursts to replenish Aether in the absence of Infrastructure to siphon from (presuming they don't have some form of suborned Infrastructure that they can bring with them as a generator)? Perhaps most basically, are they self-contained enough to be able to survive without the Machine?

    This is less practical than it is a thought experiment, but I'd appreciate thoughts and opinions.



  • #2
    I’ve done this. For ease of sanity, I simply rule that things function normally unless stated otherwise. Of course, in my game, the God-Machine is invading other realities, so it might not exactly fit your scenario


    Jason Ross Inczauskis, Freelance Writer
    Currently writing: Dark Eras 2, Mummy: The Curse 2e, Pirates of Pugmire, TC In Media Res. Previous projects: DtD Night Horrors: Enemy Action; C20 Anthology of Dreams
    Masculine pronouns preferred.

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    • #3
      Well, if they were in a world completely untouched by the God-Machine’s presence, it’s likely that Embeds and Exploits would cease functioning, due to there being no connection to the Arcane physics that make up the foundation of Embeds- and by extension Exploits

      . Aether would be practically non existent aside from small bursts when the Demon assumes demonic form or has a form ability that allows them to harvest Aether from alternative sources like Sun’s Bounty or Essence Drain ( provided there were spirits or comparable creatures) and would be a direly precious resource if those methods weren’t available.


      Cover should be more or less Ironclad, now that there is nothing that can really degrade it through scrutiny, Burning being an example, but depending on where you might be, wearing the skin of a mortal human being might have its own more immediate draw backs.


      In short, definitely.... but it would be very rough going.
      Last edited by Korogra; 11-01-2018, 10:47 AM.

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      • #4
        Originally posted by White Oak Dragon View Post
        I’ve done this. For ease of sanity, I simply rule that things function normally unless stated otherwise. Of course, in my game, the God-Machine is invading other realities, so it might not exactly fit your scenario
        I was looking at Tempters, and the bit where it mentions them possibly trying to find a Hell elsewhere, and I had a crazy idea: Namely, run a Demon crossover game with another setting (the one which immediately comes to mind is the setting of A Song of Ice and Fire, because can you imagine demons politicking there? I can.). I don't think I'll actually do it and it's not a terribly serious suggestion, but it was an interesting idea, and I thought it'd make for some fun discussion.
        Last edited by ajf115; 11-01-2018, 10:52 AM.


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        • #5
          Originally posted by ajf115 View Post
          I was looking at Tempters, and the bit where it mentions them possibly trying to find a Hell elsewhere, and I had a crazy idea: Namely, run a Demon crossover game with another setting (the one which immediately comes to mind is the setting of A Song of Ice and Fire, because can you imagine demons politicking there? I can.). I don't think I'll actually do it and it's not a terribly serious suggestion, but it was an interesting idea, and I thought it'd make for some fun discussion.
          I once wrote a D:TF x RWBY crossover fiction piece for a friend that featured a reality hopping Tempter... so it’s always possible

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          • #6
            Originally posted by Korogra View Post

            I once wrote a D:TF x RWBY crossover fiction piece for a friend that featured a reality hopping Tempter... so it’s always possible
            Well, I guess that Primum is, quote, "​the extent to which a demon has adapted to its Fall, interfacing with reality instead of the God-Machine", so it seems to me that a demon of sufficient Primum ought to be able to 'make a place for itself', as it were.


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            • #7
              Originally posted by ajf115 View Post
              I was looking at Tempters, and the bit where it mentions them possibly trying to find a Hell elsewhere, and I had a crazy idea: Namely, run a Demon crossover game with another setting (the one which immediately comes to mind is the setting of A Song of Ice and Fire, because can you imagine demons politicking there? I can.). I don't think I'll actually do it, but it was an interesting idea, and I thought it'd make for some fun discussion.
              I’ve crossed them over with quite a few settings at this point. Mostly, they’re trying to thwart the God-Machine’s plan to merge all realities into one. My player is playing a changeling/Exalted hybrid turned omnipotent superbeing, but she has a few Unchained allies traveling with her. Your question is an interesting one, as the worlds without GM influence haven’t really required them to use such things. Personally, I’d rule that if the phenomenon exists in the world they’re in, an Embed would still work.


              Jason Ross Inczauskis, Freelance Writer
              Currently writing: Dark Eras 2, Mummy: The Curse 2e, Pirates of Pugmire, TC In Media Res. Previous projects: DtD Night Horrors: Enemy Action; C20 Anthology of Dreams
              Masculine pronouns preferred.

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              • #8
                Originally posted by White Oak Dragon View Post

                I’ve crossed them over with quite a few settings at this point. Mostly, they’re trying to thwart the God-Machine’s plan to merge all realities into one. My player is playing a changeling/Exalted hybrid turned omnipotent superbeing, but she has a few Unchained allies traveling with her. Your question is an interesting one, as the worlds without GM influence haven’t really required them to use such things. Personally, I’d rule that if the phenomenon exists in the world they’re in, an Embed would still work.
                What, so if people tend to zone out when doing something boring, then Ellipses works? That makes sense.


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                • #9
                  Originally posted by ajf115 View Post
                  Well, I guess that Primum is, quote, "​the extent to which a demon has adapted to its Fall, interfacing with reality instead of the God-Machine", so it seems to me that a demon of sufficient Primum ought to be able to 'make a place for itself', as it were.
                  To an extent. Primum 10 demon’s still require Aether and at least some sort of piece of the Machine to make effective use of their powers sadly.

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by ajf115 View Post
                    What, so if people tend to zone out when doing something boring, then Ellipses works? That makes sense.
                    Exactly. I could also see an argument for allowing Embeds that normally wouldn’t function in a reality being treated as Exploits.


                    Jason Ross Inczauskis, Freelance Writer
                    Currently writing: Dark Eras 2, Mummy: The Curse 2e, Pirates of Pugmire, TC In Media Res. Previous projects: DtD Night Horrors: Enemy Action; C20 Anthology of Dreams
                    Masculine pronouns preferred.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Korogra View Post

                      To an extent. Primum 10 demon’s still require Aether and at least some sort of piece of the Machine to make effective use of their powers sadly.
                      Well, the Aether can be restored by Demonic Form. Though I guess it's said to be a receptacle for/attract ambient Aether rather than produce it...

                      Well, there's always the possibility of bringing or learning to make some gadget (not necessarily Gadget) that's Infrastructure-ey enough to produce Aether.

                      Perhaps a Near-Field Exploited Gadget of Devour Infrastructure that consumes something (valuable things, meat, coleslaw, life, souls, whatever) and produces Aether?
                      Last edited by ajf115; 11-01-2018, 11:16 AM.


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                      • #12
                        It’s not without precedent for a protagonist in the Chronicles of Darkness to have to sacrifice power to attain freedom: Prometheans in their pursuit of the New Dawn eventually have to give up their powers to be liberated from the triple burden of Torment, Disquiet, and Wasteland; when a mummy achieves Apotheosis, its Sekhem is permanently stuck at 1. So it wouldn’t surprise me in the least that an Unchained who finally reaches a Hell where the God-Machine has no presence at all will find that his Embeds and Exploits don’t work there: those powers are, after all, the result of hacking the God-Machine.

                        I figure that his Demonic Form will continue to work, and he’ll probably retain his Covers; heck, he might even retain the Keys and Interlocks of his Cipher, though I wouldn’t even guarantee that — though the final secret of his Cipher might be along the lines of realizing that the God-Machine itself is merely tapping into a deeper truth, which the demon can now exploit directly without having to go through the God-Machine. Or the final secret might be learning how to build his own Infrastructure, effectively creating a new and independent “mini-GM” that serves him.


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                        • #13
                          I've always read the descriptions of the corebook as emphatically suggesting that Embeds and Exploits work based on the underlying occult physics that the God-Machine is built onto, rather than the pathways of the God-Machine itself, it just happens that where it has Infrastructure the difference between the two might be meaningless. Likewise, I don't believe Embeds and Exploits stop working in places so remote or cast-off that the God-Machine has no aligned infrastructure or resources, which implies the distinction, but it's necessarily an ambiguous and hazy line in Demon The Descent.

                          So it could be Embeds and Exploits cease to work in an alternate world free of the God-Machine, but because it doesn't share the same occult physics. Or maybe those rules still exist, and they do. But if they do, then maybe the circumstances for the God-Machine to thrive, or to begin exist too.

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                          • #14
                            Problem is: Demonic Form _collects_ Aether, it doesn't seem to generate it.

                            When they are at 0, they can open up their stores and the relative differential of Aether they have to environmental Aether means they collect some.

                            A Demon that wants to say "screw you, I'm moving" will need to either:
                            A) Figure out hacks that work in the new reality
                            B) Take enough Infrastructure with them to apply those hacks to the new reality.


                            Malkydel: "And the Machine dictated; let there be adequate illumination."
                            Yossarian: "And lo, it was optimal."

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                            • #15
                              A major element of the game is finding a realm beyond the touch of the God Machine. It would be perfectly inane if succeeding crippled or killed them. They do often rely on occult physics mapped out by the God Machine, but then again, many other supernatural splats also rely on the same occult physics. The near universal fan answer to "demons trying to find a Hell away from the reach of the God Machine" being "they immediately get BTFO'd" really sucks.

                              Gaining Primum means you know how to interface with reality as you once did with the God Machine... so yes, an Unchained could function 100% fine in a realm without the GM. They could even generate their own aether. They are a closed loop of being; existing because they exist. "No longer a part of the God-Machine, the demon is now fully a creature of reality as humans know it."

                              A lot of these conversations try to recast the Unchained as just a nerfed version of an Exile.

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