Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Sample Combat: Angel vs. Demon

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Sample Combat: Angel vs. Demon

    One thing missing from all of the DtD books is an extended example of combat, showing all of the rules in action. This is my attempt to do so for a scene between a demon and an angel. I tried to involve as many aspect of the angel's abilities as I could (Influence, Incepts, and Numina). The goal is to show the mechanics. I am sure that I have made mistakes and I am hoping that other contributors can make corrections until there is consistent and correct example of play. I hope that someone else could do this in a separate topic for demon vs. demon combat and mortal vs. mortal combat as well.

    Scene: A large orchard with rows of bushes 2-3 meters high that can provide cover. The characters are Damien, a Saboteur demon and Angie, a guardian angel posing as a beekeeper, Neither knows the other is supernatural.

    Damien’s Goal: Suspect orchard has GM Infrastructure on it. Determine the GM’s plan and destroy anything related to it.
    Angie’s Goal: Protect the harvested honey. It has occult qualities.

    Damien: Saboteur Demon, Primum 2.
    Attributes:
    Intelligence: 2 Strength: 3 Presence: 1
    Wits: 3 Dexterity: 4 Manipulation: 3
    Resolve: 2 Stamina: 2 Composure: 2
    Physical: Athletics 2, Brawl 4, Handguns 4, Tailing 2, Weaponry (Blade Hands) 4
    Health 7 Willpower 3 Primum 2 Aether 11/2
    Size 5 Speed 11 Defense 3 Initiative Mod 5

    Embed: Cause and Effect, Merciless Gunman, Callout
    Exploits: Murder by Improbability, Hellfire
    Modifications: Armored Plates, Blade Hand, Fast Attack
    Technologies: Mirrored Skin, Clairvoyant Sight,
    Propulsion: Teleport
    Process: Wound Healing


    Bee Keeper (Rank 2 Angel) Guardian
    Influences: Bees - 2 (Manipulate)
    Attributes: Power: 5 Finesse: 4Resistance: 4
    Size: 5, Corpus: 9, Defense: 4 , Initiative: 9, Max Essence: 15

    Bane: Takes Bashing Damage from smoke, Agg. Dam. from Rhododendron or Azalea nectar
    Ban: May not leave the circle enclosing the garden.
    Manifestations: Discorporate, Materialize, Twilight Form
    Numina: Innocuous:, Speed , Blink:
    Incepts: Motion, Scale


    Damien snoops around for a bit - it takes him a while to find Angie due to her Innocuous numen. When he does, he decides to resort to violence - no witnesses. He stalks Angie until he can get a good shot from 18 meters away.

    Turn 0
    Damien attempts to use the Embed “Merciless Gunman” but is told by the ST that he senses that the Embed will not work, as per the Embed description. He decides to to attack using surprise. He rolls Dexterity + Stealth(Tailing) =6 dice for 1 success. The angel rolls Wits + Composure= Finesse + Resistance = 8 dice for 3 successes and is not surprised.

    Turn 1:
    Damien rolls a d10+Initiative(5)+Weapon Penalty(0) , while Angie rolls a d10+Initiative(9). The first time they both roll 11, so the ST has them roll again; this time Damien wins. As far as Angie knows, Damien is a human. (Damien knows that there is something odd about Angie, but not exactly what.)
    Damien fires his pistol. This is short range. The roll is Dex+Skill-Defense, and as a Rank 2 Ephemeral, Angie uses the lower of Power and Finesse as Defense (which Ephermerals can use even against ranged attacks). He rolls 4 + 4 - 4 = 4 dice and gets 2 successes. The pistol is 1L so Angie takes 3L damage but since she is an Angel, this is only 3 Bashing damage.
    Angie appears to do nothing. However, she is using her Influence to rouse the bees. The ST decides that they will Swarm in four rounds.

    Turn 2:
    Angie wins initiative this round. A character’s speed is equal to Strength + Dexterity + 5. A character can move this many meters in one turn. As angel this means Power+Finesse+5, which is 14. Angie spends 2 Essence and her speed doubles, so she closes in one round. Damien realizes that he may be in trouble.
    Damien pops the Hellfire Exploit, costing a point of Aether, and burns a point of Willpower as well to add +3 dice to his roll. He rolls 7 dice but gets just one success to do 2 Aggravated Damage.

    Turn 3:
    Angie again wins the Initiative. Because of the aggravated damage, she realizes that this is no ordinary opponent. She activates the Scale Incept, and spends 2 Essence. This gives her + (2 x Rank) = +4 to her dice pools and subtracts (Rank+1) = 3 from an attacker’s dice pool. Damien goes for a partial transformation, activating Armored Plates, Blade Hand and Fast Attack. There will be Compromise rolls later. Both of these actions take the round.

    Turn 4:
    Damien gets +2 to his Initiative from Fast Attack, but still loses. (If he ever wins the Initiative, he can keep it using this ability). Angie continues to brawl, but due to the Incept has 13 dice, minus Damien’s Defense of 3 or 10 dice. She gets two successes. The armor absorbs this. He rolls Str + Brawl - Defense - (Rank+1) = for a melee attack. This gives 3+4-4-3 = 0, or a chance die. He misses.

    Turn 5:
    The ST rules that by now the bees have responded and Damien will have the Swarm tilt. This is not going the way he anticipated. He decides to teleport away. Angie wins the Initiative roll again. She hits for 4 damage, and his armor absorbs 3, so that he takes one bashing. Damien tries to teleport away but the ST rules that he will go in a random direction due to the Swarm tilt. He teleports, but is still inside the orchard.

    Turn 6:
    Angie uses Blink of an Eye to catch up to Damien. She again wins initiative, and hits for 3, which his armor absorbs. He teleports and manages to leave the orchard. Angie’s ban prevents her from giving chase.


    Lessons of the story: even a little armor is very effective and angel's can kick your butt

  • #2
    An angel with beekeeper cover who takes Damage from smoke is exceptionally poor planning on the G-M’s part.


    Writer. Developer. World of Darkness | Chronicles of Darkness | The Trinity Continuum

    Comment


    • #3
      On Turn 1 Angie’s use of Influence should have required a Power + Finesse roll and cost 2 Essence. If she succeeded, it should have worked immediately. ST robbed the angel here.


      Writer. Developer. World of Darkness | Chronicles of Darkness | The Trinity Continuum

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Bunyip View Post
        On Turn 1 Angie’s use of Influence should have required a Power + Finesse roll and cost 2 Essence. If she succeeded, it should have worked immediately. ST robbed the angel here.
        Point taken about the roll. I'll fix that in my notes. (Should I edit the original post as well?)

        But I am not sure about how long before the bees would swarm. Do you think that it would be instantaneous? Or just not quite so long? At a level of 2, Angie can "Manipulate", which I thought would only allow her to summon the swarm.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Bunyip View Post
          An angel with beekeeper cover who takes Damage from smoke is exceptionally poor planning on the G-M’s part.
          Remember that she doesn't need smoke to pacify the bees - she has Influence.

          I modelled her as part bee. That's why she takes aggravated damage from Rhododendron or Azalea nectar. If Damien looked beneath her beekeeper mask he would get a bit of a shock.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by KieranMullen View Post
            Point taken about the roll. I'll fix that in my notes. (Should I edit the original post as well?)

            But I am not sure about how long before the bees would swarm. Do you think that it would be instantaneous? Or just not quite so long? At a level of 2, Angie can "Manipulate", which I thought would only allow her to summon the swarm.
            She has a cover as a beekeeper and is literally incapable of leaving the garden. This implies that the bee hives are also in the garden, otherwise it’s a poor cover. (A garden without hives doesn’t need a beekeeper.) Using that logic, it shouldn’t take the swarm long to arrive. Additionally, we’re talking supernatural power here, that cost Essence to use. At the very least, as ST I’d have the Influence effect occur immediately, even if the Swarm takes another turn to arrive. Probably not an arbitrary 4 turns.

            Edit to add: For clarity, the ST is perfectly within their rights to say it takes 4 turns for the swarm to arrive. There’s no right or wrong here. If I was playing the angel (which of course as an NPC I’m not) I’d be feeling a little robbed that I used a power that took 13% of my power reserves and delivered essentially nothing for the predictable length of the combat. As ST, I’d also be disinclined to be ‘kind’ to the demon player whose sole plan was ambush-murder of a stranger simply because ‘no witnesses’. He even got a warning that this victim wasn’t susceptible to instant murder, which should have been all he needed to come up with a better plan. Once he decided to push on I’d make sure he had to fight for it.

            Another edit as I realised I hadn’t answered part of your question: You wrote
            At a level of 2, Angie can "Manipulate", which I thought would only allow her to summon the swarm.
            Manipulate specifically allows the character to “make minor changes to an animal's actions”. Now, I think it’s fair to count a hive of bees as a single unit, rather than expecting an ephemeral entity to apply to individual insects one by one. That said, one of the things bees are constantly on the lookout for are threats to the hive. If bees detect a threat, they’ll go into swarming attack mode. The only “minor change to the animal’s actions” that Angie needs to do is say “Damien = threat”. The bees will be onto him as fast as their little wings can carry them, stinging the hell out of him and sacrificing their little bee bodies for the good of the hive. It might take a turn to happen, but it won’t take long.
            Last edited by Bunyip; 01-01-2019, 07:41 AM.


            Writer. Developer. World of Darkness | Chronicles of Darkness | The Trinity Continuum

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by KieranMullen View Post
              Remember that she doesn't need smoke to pacify the bees - she has Influence.
              Counterpoint - remember that it’s Cover. Not using an essential tool of the trade because she has supernatural powers is exceptionally poor cover. We’re not talking unusual mannerisms or going home and standing motionless inside the doorway until the next day here. We’re talking a beekeeper who never leaves the garden - which is poor cover unless the garden specifically includes some kind of accommodation - and doesn’t use an essential tool of the trade. She’s rank 2, so the G-M has invested some resources into her creation and use.

              Not that this is pertinent to the combat example, but as an Tech-espionage game it’s a good idea to make covers appear solid in everyday use, and only have the strange quirks noticeable after a bit of work. Preferably not covers that are logically inconsistent with the claimed role. 🙂


              Writer. Developer. World of Darkness | Chronicles of Darkness | The Trinity Continuum

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by KieranMullen View Post
                Turn 0
                Damien attempts to use the Embed “Merciless Gunman” but is told by the ST that he senses that the Embed will not work, as per the Embed description. He decides to to attack using surprise. He rolls Dexterity + Stealth(Tailing) =6 dice for 1 success. The angel rolls Wits + Composure= Finesse + Resistance = 8 dice for 3 successes and is not surprised.
                According to the Embed text, Merciless Gunman should still be able to grant 8-Again on the Firearms attack, even if it can't be used for Down and Dirty combat.

                Originally posted by KieranMullen View Post
                Turn 1:
                Damien rolls a d10+Initiative(5)+Weapon Penalty(0) , while Angie rolls a d10+Initiative(9). The first time they both roll 11, so the ST has them roll again; this time Damien wins. As far as Angie knows, Damien is a human. (Damien knows that there is something odd about Angie, but not exactly what.)
                Damien fires his pistol. This is short range. The roll is Dex+Skill-Defense, and as a Rank 2 Ephemeral, Angie uses the lower of Power and Finesse as Defense (which Ephermerals can use even against ranged attacks). He rolls 4 + 4 - 4 = 4 dice and gets 2 successes. The pistol is 1L so Angie takes 3L damage but since she is an Angel, this is only 3 Bashing damage.
                Angie appears to do nothing. However, she is using her Influence to rouse the bees. The ST decides that they will Swarm in four rounds.
                Is Angie Materialized or in Cover? If Materialized, fine, but if in Cover I think they'd still take Lethal damage.
                Seconding Bunyip on the Influence use - those Bees should be there quicker.

                Originally posted by KieranMullen View Post
                Turn 2:
                Angie wins initiative this round. A character’s speed is equal to Strength + Dexterity + 5. A character can move this many meters in one turn. As angel this means Power+Finesse+5, which is 14. Angie spends 2 Essence and her speed doubles, so she closes in one round. Damien realizes that he may be in trouble.
                Damien pops the Hellfire Exploit, costing a point of Aether, and burns a point of Willpower as well to add +3 dice to his roll. He rolls 7 dice but gets just one success to do 2 Aggravated Damage.
                Hellfire doesn't quite work that way. It is Reflexive, and enhances touched firearms to deal Aggravated damage. Also, Damien needs to roll for Compromise. He should have used it for the opening attack, combined with the 8-Again of Merciless Gunman.

                Originally posted by KieranMullen View Post
                Turn 3:
                Angie again wins the Initiative. Because of the aggravated damage, she realizes that this is no ordinary opponent. She activates the Scale Incept, and spends 2 Essence. This gives her + (2 x Rank) = +4 to her dice pools and subtracts (Rank+1) = 3 from an attacker’s dice pool. Damien goes for a partial transformation, activating Armored Plates, Blade Hand and Fast Attack. There will be Compromise rolls later. Both of these actions take the round.
                I get that you want to demo Incepts, but they aren't casually brought into play like that. Otherwise fine. (Probably should have Partially Transformed just Fast Attack earlier, so they could keep Initiative if they won it).

                Originally posted by KieranMullen View Post
                Turn 4:
                Damien gets +2 to his Initiative from Fast Attack, but still loses. (If he ever wins the Initiative, he can keep it using this ability). Angie continues to brawl, but due to the Incept has 13 dice, minus Damien’s Defense of 3 or 10 dice. She gets two successes. The armor absorbs this. He rolls Str + Brawl - Defense - (Rank+1) = for a melee attack. This gives 3+4-4-3 = 0, or a chance die. He misses.
                Fair.

                Originally posted by KieranMullen View Post
                Turn 5:
                The ST rules that by now the bees have responded and Damien will have the Swarm tilt. This is not going the way he anticipated. He decides to teleport away. Angie wins the Initiative roll again. She hits for 4 damage, and his armor absorbs 3, so that he takes one bashing. Damien tries to teleport away but the ST rules that he will go in a random direction due to the Swarm tilt. He teleports, but is still inside the orchard.
                Damien actually can't teleport, since they didn't manifest that Form Ability in their Partial Transformation earlier. They would need to shift to full Demonic Form for that.

                Originally posted by KieranMullen View Post
                Turn 6:
                Angie uses Blink of an Eye to catch up to Damien. She again wins initiative, and hits for 3, which his armor absorbs. He teleports and manages to leave the orchard. Angie’s ban prevents her from giving chase.


                Lessons of the story: even a little armor is very effective and angel's can kick your butt
                Damien should have stuck with Hellfire-enhanced Firearms rolls. Demonic Form is a Reflexive action, as is Teleport usage. Damien should have used a standard hit-and-move strategy to dump Aggravated firearms rolls on a target and Teleport away to keep their distance.
                Conversely, Angie could have summoned the bees, then shifted back to Twilight.


                Malkydel: "And the Machine dictated; let there be adequate illumination."
                Yossarian: "And lo, it was optimal."

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Vent0 View Post
                  Is Angie Materialized or in Cover? If Materialized, fine, but if in Cover I think they'd still take Lethal damage.
                  Demons in Cover still use their own Health, not a Health track generated by the Stamina their Cover would've had as an individual. By that logic I think it should still be bashing.

                  Originally posted by Vent0 View Post
                  Conversely, Angie could have summoned the bees, then shifted back to Twilight.
                  The angel might not be able to don the Cover by itself again (if it's even possible to just shed, we don't know how angelic Covers work) or might not be allowed to shed it depending on the parameters of its mission.


                  Bloodline: The Stygians
                  Ordo Dracul Mysteries: Mystery of Smoke, Revised Mystery of Živa
                  Mage The Awakening: Spell Quick Reference (single page and landscape for computer screens)

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Tessie View Post

                    Demons in Cover still use their own Health, not a Health track generated by the Stamina their Cover would've had as an individual. By that logic I think it should still be bashing.
                    Demon's don't have an ephemeral body to fall back on. The reason Ephemerals take bashing is because their body, even materialized, is just Corpus. They don't need organs. Covers, however, do.

                    Originally posted by Tessie View Post
                    The angel might not be able to don the Cover by itself again (if it's even possible to just shed, we don't know how angelic Covers work) or might not be allowed to shed it depending on the parameters of its mission.
                    Fair enough. Could go either way.


                    Malkydel: "And the Machine dictated; let there be adequate illumination."
                    Yossarian: "And lo, it was optimal."

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      I'll give this a few more days, and then edit the sample play incorporating the comments.

                      (BTW, in the original scenario the bushes were carnivorous crypto-flora. That's why Angie could afford to look inhuman since there were no people around to observe her. But this was not germane to having a useful sample combat so I just removed that aspect from the scene. I'll alter her bane a bit to keep her Cover more standard).

                      Some ST's seem to have their Angels go into Twilight as a standard battle tactic. I had viewed it more as a last resort. I can see that it might matter if this was an actual Cover or just Materialization. Your comments on this would be welcome.

                      Thanks again to all of you who are taking the time to vet this carefully!

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Vent0 View Post
                        Demon's don't have an ephemeral body to fall back on. The reason Ephemerals take bashing is because their body, even materialized, is just Corpus. They don't need organs. Covers, however, do.
                        But it's not the Cover's Health that is being attacked. The angel doesn't take extra damage just because their Cover takes a bullet to the guts. Just like a demon doesn't suffer from wound penalties or straight up death just because they happened to be in a Cover with much less Stamina than their own. Simply put: The Cover's own stats doesn't matter. An angel being attacked while in Cover takes damage to their own Corpus, no translation through their Cover's theoretical Health.


                        Bloodline: The Stygians
                        Ordo Dracul Mysteries: Mystery of Smoke, Revised Mystery of Živa
                        Mage The Awakening: Spell Quick Reference (single page and landscape for computer screens)

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Tessie View Post
                          The angel might not be able to don the Cover by itself again (if it's even possible to just shed, we don't know how angelic Covers work) or might not be allowed to shed it depending on the parameters of its mission.
                          If the angel’s resorting to Incepts by Turn 3, that cover’s effectively gone anyway.


                          Writer. Developer. World of Darkness | Chronicles of Darkness | The Trinity Continuum

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Considering how high rated angelic Covers tend to be it doesn't really make sense to degrade it to zero after only this altercation, unless you mean using Incepts is akin to burning the Cover?


                            Bloodline: The Stygians
                            Ordo Dracul Mysteries: Mystery of Smoke, Revised Mystery of Živa
                            Mage The Awakening: Spell Quick Reference (single page and landscape for computer screens)

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              That’s what I mean, yes. By their nature, an Incept’s use has just alerted anything within ‘hearing’ range that an angel is here, and unless the angel was authorised to use Incepts (and if it’s in Cover, the question would be ‘why would it be authorised?’) the angel is likely to be recalled and replaced, cut loose to Fall, or have other angels come and investigate/clean up the mess.

                              As the STG says ”Angels are usually reluctant to use Incepts because of this disturbance, although if the angel's mission is compromised, this reluctance disappears, replaced by vengeance and an angel prepared to use its full power.” The angel might have made this call by Turn 3, but it seems like an early choice.


                              Writer. Developer. World of Darkness | Chronicles of Darkness | The Trinity Continuum

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X