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Identity Theft - building up a portfolio, range and duration

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  • Identity Theft - building up a portfolio, range and duration

    Hello,

    I've got into an argument with one of my players about Identity Theft.

    RAW - if you touch a person, you can gain his identity any time in the future, given that you are within range and that he's not supernatural.

    This feels like a very bookkeeping heavy way of power, especially given that almost every other power has a duration of sorts.

    With the power as written, the best thing for such a character to do, is in pretty much every scene, see if they can casually touch some people with access or merits, thus over time, being able to conjure up a person almost anywhere (and certainly in recurring locations). To me, that seems very broad and powerful (given that it can be used to knock people out, to gain merits, access, etc) as compared to pretty much any other power.

    To me, it feels like the connection should disappear once the Demon leaves the range (Primum miles), meaning that the demon can have a portfolio in any place where he touched a few people, but only until he leaves pretty much, or at higher primum, if he lives within a neighborhood or two, he can build up a bigger portfolio.

    Anyways, thoughts? Is the power sensible as written?


    My Bloodline conversions
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  • #2
    "but a careful demon can build up a 'stable' of identities that she uses frequently, allowing her to escape from pursuers quickly"
    Seems intended to me. They have to be within Primum miles to activate it anyway.

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    • #3
      What happens if demon A uses this on character B who happens to be a demon also, unknown to A? Does B spoof being a human? If not, does A now know that B is supernatural? Is there a contest of wills?

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      • #4
        Originally posted by KieranMullen View Post
        What happens if demon A uses this on character B who happens to be a demon also, unknown to A?
        The power fails to work.

        Does B spoof being a human?
        No.

        If not, does A now know that B is supernatural?
        They know that the power failed, which is an outcome that can occur on completely normal people.

        Is there a contest of wills?
        There is no conflicting supernatural power at work, so no.


        Resident Lore-Hound
        Currently Consuming: Hunter: the Vigil 1e

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        • #5
          Originally posted by Deinos View Post
          "but a careful demon can build up a 'stable' of identities that she uses frequently, allowing her to escape from pursuers quickly"
          Seems intended to me. They have to be within Primum miles to activate it anyway.

          I know that's how it's written. My problem with this is the amount of bookkeeping needed, and that this is the only power I know, which can knock out people, gain merits and pseudo-track people with no duration on it ever. Just a general "did I happen to EVER have touched you... like 10 years ago".

          It seems that it falls quite out of line as compared to almost all other powers which generally time out. (putting in the almost, just because there's bound to be another outlier like this...)


          My Bloodline conversions
          My House rules

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          • #6
            Originally posted by Griautis View Post
            I know that's how it's written. My problem with this is the amount of bookkeeping needed, and that this is the only power I know, which can knock out people, gain merits and pseudo-track people with no duration on it ever. Just a general "did I happen to EVER have touched you... like 10 years ago".
            It also only works on characters who aren't completely supernatural beings, doesn't tell you what state they're in when you steal their identity, pulls you into the dichotomy of "get pinned down in one place for the rest of your life or wander the world at breakneck speed and keep a lot of eyes out" and adds an extra source of compromise that gets worse the more you use a given target.

            Most NPCs are going to have predictable Social Merits for their occupation and economic class, and keeping track of the specific people they're impersonating is a player-side bookkeeping concern. You can literally manage this as an ST on the simple ability to piece together "mobsters probably have some dots in Status: Organized Crime."

            It seems that it falls quite out of line as compared to almost all other powers which generally time out. (putting in the almost, just because there's bound to be another outlier like this...)
            Deep Pockets only requires that the specific item you're pulling out of empty space exist and have been seen by you.


            Resident Lore-Hound
            Currently Consuming: Hunter: the Vigil 1e

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Satchel View Post
              The power fails to work.

              No.

              They know that the power failed, which is an outcome that can occur on completely normal people.

              There is no conflicting supernatural power at work, so no.
              Ok, a dumb implementation question: Do you roll this in front of the player? If you just tell them "Gee, it failed" without any rolling of dice, the player will meta-know that something is different about B that caused the power to fail to work. A good player won't exploit this meta-knowledge, I suppose. I am just curious how people run these sorts of cases.

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              • #8
                Originally posted by KieranMullen View Post
                Ok, a dumb implementation question: Do you roll this in front of the player? If you just tell them "Gee, it failed" without any rolling of dice, the player will meta-know that something is different about B that caused the power to fail to work.
                To succeed in the typically desired fashion, Identity Theft requires that the demon have touched the target, be within however many miles of the target, and that the target not be a supernatural being of sufficient potency to possess a Supernatural Tolerance Trait, in addition to managing a success on the Manipulation + Subterfuge roll.

                Assuming the demon is using the Embed with a line of sight to a target they've just touched and succeeds at their roll, a failure only tells the demon that their target is not what they seem. This is far from useless information, but as far as espionage goes it's a starting point rather than a way to say with certainty that someone is a demon; checking that calls for different methods oriented around actual scrutiny and detection, at which point spoofing unambiguously comes into play — unless the demon breaks out something like the Aura Sight Technology, they don't know whether Identity Theft failed because the target is a vampire or a mage or a cryptid or a bluebook Horror or some other mortal-looking monster about on the street.


                Resident Lore-Hound
                Currently Consuming: Hunter: the Vigil 1e

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