My own setting Hack - Brainstorming needed.

[DiBastet]

How do you do, fellow kids?

I'm DiBastet, a longtime lurker that registered just so I could get some neat ideas and brainstorming from your guys (well, that and to thank arcanearts for a rant, and to ask Dreaminggod to update his More Traditional Demon Hack google doc...).

Thing is, I'm building my own world of darkness based around Demon the Descent. Even during classic wod I always liked to choose only one splat and them create the whole setting around it, changing other possible splats to conform to it (so in my changeling there may be werewolves, but they aren't the Garou, there may be vampires but they aren't the Cainites, etc), and nWoD is built with an assumption like this that I love and have used since I bought my portuguese 1e blue blook a looong time ago.


My idea is (basically) this

-The setting basis is Demon the Descent + basic blue book. That means GM, angels, revolting angels as demons, etc. Basic spirit, ghost and Shadow, with the GM also extending there. Also theme from the blue book of creatures and things that are unknow / hidden / what the F is that / holy molly RUN and no one can explain.

-I'll remove most (but not all) of the tech fluff, leaving it more on the background under the "mystical" skin. But as many have said before that doesn't change the setting at all: I could paint the machine parts pink and wouldn't change a thing, except making it pinker.

-Mage the Awakening will be partially used. GM and its "mysterious ways" will replace exarchs as antagonist. Mage's factions are mostly scrapped and replaced by local groups, Seers as organization are replaced by awakened servants of the GM. In general organizations will be less world spanning and be more local. Mage's mythology stays mostly the same, with varying stories that no one knows if is true, but with a more gnostic theme to it: They know they have the divine spark of the beyond and that the opressive demiurge and its servants do their demon the descent demiurge stuff. Since demon the descent is the "main" setting and I want its paranoia-fueled feel, paradox will be some kind of GM/demiurge firewall that alerts angels. So both unchained and wise will fear the same bad guys.

-There are hunters. Not necessarily Vigil's hunters, but hunters. I feel those conspiracies and stuff fit like a glove in DtD. And my players would hate me if their characters didn't need to face (meaning, run like hell from) some Winchester-Brothers-expy hunters with 10+ years of experience, allies, rites, magic stuff and the works.

That's all ok and decided, and of course there are more details to it that I certainly won't bother you guys by explaning. Now for the real brainstorming that I want...

I want to include a third possible player faction (besides normal humans of this world, of course), and that would be an expanded Exile faction. Now now, I know exiles are ruled more as spirits (like the angels) than as players, but the rules aren't exactly a problem. Rules-wise I'll make them mostly similar to the unchained template, with same abilities and such, but with some advantages, drawbacks and differences; nothing I can't handle.


What I'm looking for
What I want is ideas to change exiles from "that weird angel-but-not-exactly guy" to a faction of these. As written exiles are awesome (imho) but mostly singular creatures. I want to expand that. To create an interesting "new" splat with their own drama and theme.

Any kind of idea. There are no bad ideas, no canon-unfriendly ideas, no nothing: I want every kind of idea that you guys can toss towards me. Even if it's "take clues from splat Y" (since I don't know much beside werewolf, mage, demon and lost). Well, actually the only bad ideas are those on the likes of "don't do this" or "go play something else" or "go back to lurking, peasant" (just kidding ).


What I already got
As a good lurker I fished around a lot to find if someone already had this idea, and this morning I came upon a thread where someone wanted to merge the GM with the Created setting. While I don't intend to actually use the created as players, maybe I could tap their drama.

Back then I really enjoyed Demon the Fallen's aspect of feeling human feelings for the first time and actually enjoying the joy and sadness of a human existence, and I could focus on that aspect a little more (both for the exiles and the unchained). Then maybe I could use the "become human" theme, with this faction of angels who were spit out of the system by no know reason, not knowing if it was their fault or not, in a human life they never actually felt before. They had their covers when they were integrated angels, but now that they are not, this human life is something all new.

As for relations... Sometimes angels attack them, sometimes not, sometimes for unknown reasons angels aid them, most times not and they are ignored, left alone in that world. Most times demons distrust them (how unexpected, coming from the unchained...), some times they can even ally themselves with the "demons". Most times warlocks want to use hem exactly like they want to use demons, except that the seers-expies also try to ignore them.

Their question is "Why"? Why did their creator do that? What is It's purpose? Their purpose? They will have their own Agendas to deal with it, more or less similar to the unchained ones.


And that's it
What do you guys think? Any and all ideas are welcome. Even if they aren't about lore but about the rules (they will be basically the same as the unchained template, with the option of sometimes being able to tap into infrastructure for essence without having to fight their way in, and some yet undecided extra weakness. Maybe I'll steal something from the created template).


And thanks in advance for the possible warm welcome. (hopeful)

[White Oak Dragon]

Welcome to the forums! That's supposed to be warm. Did I pull off warm?

Why the Exiles became what they are is a good question for them to be asking, and I think that you've got a great idea. I think that to answer it, they would need to figure out just how their circumstances differ from those of the Unchained. Do you intend for the characters to ever actually discover the answer? If not, then you can leave it as a mystery, with an option of determining it at a later time.

[DiBastet]

Do you intend for the characters to ever actually discover the answer?

That's precisely the kind of question that really helps, those I didn't made myself!

You see, while I didn't think about it before, I guess they will discover it. Sort of. I wanted to give a big focus on the "be human" part but also the cypher part. It will probably be really cool if by means of their cypher an exile understands the purpose of his creation; not the creation of his kind, but his own. And maybe what creates this exile faction is a split personality inside the GM, some kind of repressed duality. Maybe a force similar to the Principle... that wants to... bring the GM back to a previous, balanced state? Hm...

But then you are right; I think I can wing it well enough for now without knowing the definitive anwser, and instead use my energy focusing on the path to each character's personal answer.

[White Oak Dragon]

That's precisely the kind of question that really helps, those I didn't made myself!

You see, while I didn't think about it before, I guess they will discover it. Sort of. I wanted to give a big focus on the "be human" part but also the cypher part. It will probably be really cool if by means of their cypher an exile understands the purpose of his creation; not the creation of his kind, but his own. And maybe what creates this exile faction is a split personality inside the GM, some kind of repressed duality. Maybe a force similar to the Principle... that wants to... bring the GM back to a previous, balanced state? Hm...

But then you are right; I think I can wing it well enough for now without knowing the definitive anwser, and instead use my energy focusing on the path to each character's personal answer.

One possibility, given that you want to play up the Cipher, is that you could have their final secret relate to their own purpose, the same way that demons' relate to their personal Hell. I think that leaving it ambiguous as to whether or not their purpose was always intended or whether they have forged it themselves could be a good touch. The idea of something akin to the Principle helping to motivate them is an interesting one. Given that you are using a similar template to the Unchained, you could have the exploration of the line between the two being a major theme, especially since Integrators might wonder whether they themselves are Exiles.

[StSword]

Since if you want Exiles to be more cooperative, perhaps cut off from the God-Machine as they are, they fill the emptiness by socializing with other Exiles, on a more practical level perhaps they seek each other as support- "Help me achieve goal X, I'll help you achieve goal Y."

Perhaps when they fall, their frequency gets scrambled, they aren't on the G-M's wavelength any more, but surprise, Exiles share a new network, perhaps with enough Exiles there might be a new GM.

[DiBastet]

Those are some pretty good points and questions.

I think that leaving it ambiguous as to whether or not their purpose was always intended or whether they have forged it themselves could be a good touch

That's an amazing idea! Of course they can't prove it wasn't written by the GM or by this secondary force, or anything else, but making their exile society believe it was written for them will make for a powerful moment when an exile player realizes it might as well be the purpose he forged for himself.

there might be a new GM

That's something I've been toying with. For now I have a certain seed that I can't seem to get out of my head. It's still a mess, but I think it has potential. Know fact: the GM as presented in the rulebook. Not that it means much since there's so little absolute truth regarding it.

Possibility I'm toying with: There's a second, hidden aspect of the GM. I could work that aspect into being lots of things. It could be:

1 - A "second half" of a duality that long ago was consumed
This other half was consumed by important reasons. It could be chaos balancing the order, but then order went crazy oWoD's Weaver-style and locked chaos away and now it works its perfect order. Or emotion against rationality. Or morality balancing eficiency. Maybe it is what gives the possibilty for angels to fall, or it also creates exiles as the free willed angels from the past.

2 - The GM used to be a better god before it got damaged
For some reason something glitched it out. maybe it won a phyrric victory against something really bad (or it outright lost), something akin to the exarchs, or abyss itself, or some other cthulian entity. It got damaged, but parts of its original purpose still exist and sometimes it glitches out, creating exiles.

3 - Like above, but it got corrupted
Maybe the GM had to engulf that nemesis entity to survive / keep balance / keep reality existing, effectively sacrificing itself. The once benevolent and distant god then became this amoral, glitchy, mad, tyranical demiurge, still holding this wyrm-like entity inside itself. Maybe the GM could be fixed, maybe not and no one knows the truth. But if it could be, why would you? Maybe if it's "fixed" this entity escapes. The GM glitches, like the possibility of fallen and exiled angels are the corrupting, chaotic forces of this entity that the GM interprets wrongly as viruses and trojans respectively from this primordial entity.


Of course, in keeping with the feel of mystery and paranoia, once I choose the truth only I will know it. Demon and exile societies will believe in all three and even others they cooked up.

[Dreaminggod]

My world is a lot like this. It focuses on the Gnostic, there was the Creator, but It left long ago though, after the First Legion's rebellion, after Samyaza the Lightbringer fought for humanity's sake. They were condemned to the Inferno, the realm of chaos.
Demons come in two flavors, the Exiles, newly Fallen who have never experienced the Inferno's flames, and those who escape Hell. Both of them must merge with humans to stay off the Demiurge's radar.

Exiles have less Torment, but initial power. Those who escape from the Inferno are more Tornented but have more initial power. At its heart it is still a spy between Heaven and Hell, with demons having a society built in the shadows as a kind of underground culture that is an extenaion of their grand, Tormented kingdoms in Hell.

I have Devouring like the DtF. Now I am unsure whether to still use Primum and Aether or not. Fallen can makes pacts for their fuel stat, and have Rapture in their Apocalyptic Form. Otherwise it is much the same. Embeds do not risk Torment, and Evocations do. You make the Apoc form the same, but you make two Celestial and Demonic. Every Torment 5 and above you replace Celestial with demonic, starting with Modifications, and going from there.

I am thinking of keeping Cover as a set of Condiions but am unsure.

[DiBastet]

That's pretty interesting. In the end I decided for something similar, except that instead of the inferno I got something similar to the Shadow/Abyss.

What I did:

1 - In the end I decided that the Unchained can be either Rebels (the typical fall) or Exiles (they didn't choose to fall), but mechanically they play the same.

2 - No Descent's cover, but merging with humans like Fallen. Bringing all the emotional baggage and weird moral questions about replacing someone. You can make soul pacts like Descent to take over someone's soul. Cover is the integrity stat, how well you can hide from the demiurge.

3 - A new agenda, Conciliers, those that decide to live their human lives the best they can. Forget they are demons, be uber-humans, protect the herd, etc.

4 - I use Faith instead of Aether, but it's basically the same, except that it comes from pacts or from draining nodes and Temples.

5 - When you leave a Vessel body on a rush (like being killed or trying to escape being killed) you suffer a penalty. Fallen rules for floating around trying to find another vessel unless you can cash a soul pact (must be at a certain distance of few miles).

6 - Chaos/Shadow/Oblivion/Abyss stands for the spirit world, supernal realms, abyss and inferno, the astral un-world. The demiurge by definition is something of this world, and its creations are assaulted by this Beyond when He can't protect them (like when the fools Fall). Spirits are a mix of the usually "cheerful and sane" types from Forsaken with goetic demons and abyss things. They are bad news for everyone. Unchained aren't sure exactly what is the Abyss. Is it the cold dark of nothingness of cosmic horror? The chaos of reality fighting the demiurge? Something good or bad?

7 - When using their apocalyptic forms demons can embrace the abyss and gain extra form abilities. Instead of 'demonic' they are more of the 'twisted and cthulian' type of deformity. Whenever they call the abyss they have a change to develop a sign, a glitch that stays with them even when they change Vessels.

8 - Demonology and spirit summoning in general doesn't see a lot of difference between angel and demons, so both can be summoned. Angels can be bound (i love the idea of temporarily 'rewiring' an angel) and they obey your commands as unflinchinly as the demiurge's; demons can't be bound to your will (unchained after all), but they can make pacts with you.

9 - Related to 6, there is a merit that represents how much your legend is know (things like goetic seals, names, rites, etc). It works similar to vampire's herd merits, allowing you to regain some faith with a quick interlude. The merit represents you being summoned by someone, somewhere, that makes an unimportant pact and you cash some faith.

10 - There are Awakened mortals with most of the lore baggage of Awakening, except no unifying cosmology, and related to this Abyss (the gnostic idea that humans have the spark for greateness but the demiurge tries to keep us down). They don't use the awakening splat, but similar powers to angels and demons (gameplay-wise you could say that the custom sorcerer splat looks like a super-powered stigmatic). Oh, of course they think they have all the answers even when their traditions clearly contradict each other. Their integrity-like is similar to cover, avoid the attention of the demiurge. They are more powerful than demons (well, except no demonic form of course) but they can't just leave a body and start again. Their power limitator instead of paradox is gaining the demiurge. There are stand-ins for the Seers, usually religious types that saw the Truth and decided to turn their backs to it (with the twist that this Truth may just be that this Oblivion/Abyss/Beyond isn't actually nice, so hiding in the cave is actually a great idea). You may bet your money that sorcerers and demons usually don't get along. Mages like to bind and control demons as familiars, after all.

I think that's it