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Ask a simple question, get a simple answer (Demon the Descent)

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  • So, I have a question; what does happen when a pact is destroyed, such as the medium it's written on being burned? I've heard from a group I'm in saying that it not only reverses any benefits from either side but it also causes backlash against the Demon...but I can't find rules on that. I may just not be looking in the right places though.

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    • Originally posted by Demon the Descent pg 191, 192
      When a contract is destroyed, the pact is immediately nullified. The human loses all benefits instantly, even if it would kill her (such as by losing extra Stamina while seriously injured) or leave her in a terrible situation. Riches are destroyed or stolen, assets are frozen, physical gifts immediately wither. The demon likewise loses all benefits of the pact, usually pieces of Cover taken from the mortal’s life. These come crashing back into the life they left — an abusive boyfriend immediately goes back to his ex-lover without much more of an explanation than a wicked hangover. This can also cause problems for a demon’s Cover, considering that only those directly affected by the pact have had their memories altered. In the case of a broken pact, the participating mortal remembers everything. If a demon has patched part of a mortal’s life into his Cover, destruction of the pact immediately results in loss of a dot of that Cover’s rating. The demon must also check for a permanent glitch.
      So, it looks like it is mostly and issue for the Demon if it has been integrated into one of their Covers.


      Malkydel: "And the Machine dictated; let there be adequate illumination."
      Yossarian: "And lo, it was optimal."

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      • There's also this:

        Originally posted by DtD Core p.194
        If a permanent pact is nullified by the destruction of its contract, there is a mystic backlash that resonates through a demon’s Primum. This inflicts a number of bashing damage equal to the demon’s Primum rating in a painful, head-splitting burst of pain. The destruction of many such contracts at once could even kill a demon, yet another reason they closely guard their sealed pacts

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        • Question regarding the operation of Deep Pockets: does it actually teleport the object you're picturing to your pocket-space, or does it make a clone of the object? (Using the core book's chainsaw example, does the chainsaw disappear from the hardware store when you pull it from your pocket? And if it does, what happens if a human walking by happens to see it vanish?)

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          • Originally posted by Mad_Maudlin View Post
            Question regarding the operation of Deep Pockets: does it actually teleport the object you're picturing to your pocket-space, or does it make a clone of the object? (Using the core book's chainsaw example, does the chainsaw disappear from the hardware store when you pull it from your pocket? And if it does, what happens if a human walking by happens to see it vanish?)

            The human says "WTF?".

            The description says that it is that chainsaw in the example so yes it vanishes from the hardware store and appears with you. Though the exceptional success says it becomes the ideal one, so something must happen to it during transit?

            Speaking of deep pockets. Can you deep pocket items other people have on them? Like take guns of people pointing them at you? Or does the item have to be on its own & unused?
            Last edited by totalgit; 10-02-2017, 02:47 PM.

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            • Originally posted by totalgit View Post
              Speaking of deep pockets. Can you deep pocket items other people have on them? Like take guns of people pointing them at you? Or does the item have to be on its own & unused?
              If we go with your intepretation (which I agree with) then... yes. The power has no stipulation that says the item has to be unguarded.

              Though I would probably rule that blatantly teleporting a gun out of a mortal's hand constitutes an additional Compromise on top of the normal one for the Exploit.

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              • Originally posted by Terrorforge View Post

                If we go with your intepretation (which I agree with) then... yes. The power has no stipulation that says the item has to be unguarded.

                Though I would probably rule that blatantly teleporting a gun out of a mortal's hand constitutes an additional Compromise on top of the normal one for the Exploit.
                Well, you could make it into a Gadget.

                Though my favorite variant on the trick uses the Embed Cuckoo's Egg to replace the bullets in their magazines with blanks or defective rounds.


                Malkydel: "And the Machine dictated; let there be adequate illumination."
                Yossarian: "And lo, it was optimal."

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                • This is perhaps less simple than ideal, but how does the God-Machine detect aether? Someone on a Discord chat asked the question when the topic of Compromise came up (among a lengthy argument at how Interference did more than it does), but then the detection of aether came up and it kind of stumped me, since the books states the Machine can't directly detect it.

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                  • Originally posted by Taidragon View Post
                    This is perhaps less simple than ideal, but how does the God-Machine detect aether? Someone on a Discord chat asked the question when the topic of Compromise came up (among a lengthy argument at how Interference did more than it does), but then the detection of aether came up and it kind of stumped me, since the books states the Machine can't directly detect it.
                    The book states that angels can't directly detect it through the same sort of channel as aetheric resonance, which means a universal portable tracking method is mercifully not something demons have to worry about just yet.

                    The books also make it pretty clear that exposure to Aether-based processes can create stigmatics or give rise to disasters of supernatural scope and quality — messing with facilities can result in storms and earthquakes, for instance — and the Machine is explicitly detail-oriented and capable of employing cryptids and other non-angelic means of tracking Aether.


                    Resident Sanguinary Analyst
                    Currently Consuming: Changeling: the Lost 1e

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                    • It also doesn't really need to. The Machine can detect Compromise just fine, and its minions can ferret out demons in all the usual ways - turning allies, uncovering inconsistent personal information, setting traps, infiltrating Agencies, cutting deals, broadcasting threats, following rumors about that one guy whose gun spewed blood and fired blasts of hellfire etc.

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                      • Originally posted by Terrorforge View Post
                        It also doesn't really need to. The Machine can detect Compromise just fine, and its minions can ferret out demons in all the usual ways - turning allies, uncovering inconsistent personal information, setting traps, infiltrating Agencies, cutting deals, broadcasting threats, following rumors about that one guy whose gun spewed blood and fired blasts of hellfire etc.
                        The machine doesn't have a "compromise sense" it detects low covers by context (assuming you don't have an angel witness your transformation and reported your ass) such as "hey, that guy keep pulsing a EMP field with each breath he takes" or "Isn't it funny Mike can't literally say three words without cussing?" or "Well, that's a nice set of fish scales on your lower back, Cindy, just like Arthur's."
                        Last edited by Malus; 10-03-2017, 10:01 AM.

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                        • Originally posted by Malus View Post

                          The machine doesn't have a "compromise sense" it detects low covers by context (assuming you don't have an angel witness your transformation and reported your ass) such as "hey, that guy keep pulsing a EMP field with each breath he takes" or "Isn't it funny Mike can't literally say three words without cussing?" or "Well, that's a nice set of fish scales on your lower back, Cindy, just like Arthur's."
                          Failing a Compromise roll explicitly attracts the attention of the God-Machine:

                          Originally posted by "Demon: The Descent p. 115
                          Failure: The character’s Cover has been weakened. The God-Machine or its agents have a sense of her general whereabouts and activity.
                          Also I'm pretty sure angels can't "report" demons, or at least that what they do report isn't spread around much. There are plenty of examples in the literature of demons getting sniffed out by angels and not being immediately outed to every hunter angel in the world. The God-Machine might be immeasurably vast and privy to staggering amounts of data, but it doesn't share much (if anything) with the ground-level grunts except the exact thing it needs them to do.

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                          • Originally posted by Terrorforge View Post
                            Also I'm pretty sure angels can't "report" demons, or at least that what they do report isn't spread around much. There are plenty of examples in the literature of demons getting sniffed out by angels and not being immediately outed to every hunter angel in the world. The God-Machine might be immeasurably vast and privy to staggering amounts of data, but it doesn't share much (if anything) with the ground-level grunts except the exact thing it needs them to do.
                            I think in those cases it was less "can't report a Demon" and more "can report them, but has the situation underway and doesn't feel the need to". Angels are busy beings, and pulling others off-duty willy-nilly is only going to delay the God-Machine's plans further. In a confrontation an Angel will typically be stronger than the Demon it is facing against, so if it feels it can take the Demon on it has no reason to report them unless either party needs to escape. Granted, in two of the stories I remember reading involving an Angel fighting a Demon, the Demon ended up winning by puling some pretty serious sacrifices (usually by Going Loud), so we didn't see the consequences of a Demon escaping while being seen and thus reportable. The only time an Angel met a Demon it knew to be a Demon, that was convincing it to turn itself in rather than outright dragging it in kicking and screaming...though even in that case it was implied the Angel in question was close to falling anyways.

                            Another way to look at it is that Angels perhaps don't have an innate, wireless connection to the God-Machine. They might require form powers to communicate in such a matter, or maybe with mundane communication methods via phoneline or through radio communications...or indeed through wifi. I don't remember the books stating it definitively, save for the Storyteller Guide having a cryptid that fed on Demons and could actually trick Angels into falling by jamming their communications with the God-Machine and inflicting unease on said Angel. Then again, as proven above, I've proven to have a tough time remembering certain factoids that are front and center.

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                            • It goes even further than that. Angels always feel like they have the situation under control. They don't call for help from other angels because they are incapable of envisioning failure. They literally do not comprehend that a demon (or any other factor) could be anything other than a speedbump on the way to completing the mission, and so they never feel the need to request assistance. The only time an angel actually sends out a distress call is just before it is destroyed, and even that is to preserve the mission, not the angel. This is from the ST guide.

                              The exact nature of their communication with the God-Machine is a little less clear. Iirc they are generally described as having a constant channel to the Machine, but not as being in constant communication. The salient point though is that whatever data the God-Machine collects from its angels, it definitely doesn't share indiscriminately.

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                              • Thank you for the comprehensive answers.

                                I do have another question though; should Gadgets be considered for the sanctity of merits? While one doesn't pay experience for them directly, the willpower dot does cost one experience to regain. Therefore, couldn't they be used as a means of acquiring merits by way of trading, merits which would count under the sanctity of merits? Or is a gadget exempt due to the willpower dot's cost not falling under paying an experience dot for the gadget itself, thus meaning if the gadget is stolen and or destroyed by an NPC the experience dot is effectively lost?
                                Last edited by Taidragon; 10-06-2017, 06:04 AM.

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