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  • Originally posted by FallenEco View Post
    Can/should Exiles have Incepts?
    From the original discussion thread:

    Originally posted by Bunyip View Post
    I'd recommend the ST decides on a case-by-case basis. The level of Abandonment by the God-Machine varies - sometimes It cancels Incept privileges, sometimes it doesn't. There doesn't seem to be any discernible pattern to it. Wise demons are wary around Exiles; they can be dangerous foes, but also very useful allies.


    Resident Sanguinary Analyst
    Currently Consuming: Changeling: the Lost 1e

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    • How long does Reality Enforcement last? Are any who are affected by its activation remain so for the rest of the scene? Is it just anything within the initial zone that is affected? There's no duration listed anywhere in the exploit's writeup, and the limits of what it affects (such as gadgets or Infrastructure) is vague.

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      • Other than Angel-Jacking I can't find any rules about angelic Covers. Are angels able to use Influences/Numina/Incepts while in their Covers? Do a Cover protect from Essence bleed? Can they exit and enter their Cover as they please? If it's actually explained just a page reference would be enough. I just have a hard time navigating the book so I might've just missed it.


        Bloodline: The Stygians
        Ordo Dracul Mystery: Coil of Smoke
        Mage The Awakening: Spell Quick Reference (single page and landscape for computer screens)

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        • Originally posted by Tessie View Post
          Other than Angel-Jacking I can't find any rules about angelic Covers. Are angels able to use Influences/Numina/Incepts while in their Covers? Do a Cover protect from Essence bleed? Can they exit and enter their Cover as they please? If it's actually explained just a page reference would be enough. I just have a hard time navigating the book so I might've just missed it.
          From the top of my head, I remember angelic Cover being almost entirely narrative. If the Machine needs an angel shaped like a businessman, the angel just looks like one in its natural form, without need for things like Mortal Mask or Materialize.


          MtAw Homebrew: Even more Legacies, updated to 2E

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          • Originally posted by Taidragon View Post
            How long does Reality Enforcement last? Are any who are affected by its activation remain so for the rest of the scene? Is it just anything within the initial zone that is affected? There's no duration listed anywhere in the exploit's writeup, and the limits of what it affects (such as gadgets or Infrastructure) is vague.
            Yes they can.

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            • Originally posted by Basic View Post
              Yes they can.
              Not to be rude but I see three questions and I can't pin your answer to either.

              Originally posted by 21C Hermit View Post
              From the top of my head, I remember angelic Cover being almost entirely narrative. If the Machine needs an angel shaped like a businessman, the angel just looks like one in its natural form, without need for things like Mortal Mask or Materialize.
              ​So, how would you guys treat it?
              Would you allow it use Manifestations and let it return to the Cover once the Manifestation has ended? Is the Cover lost if it discorporates? Should it protect against Essence bleed as if it was Materialized? Angels in Covers probably spend more time away from Infrastructure meaning they would bleed more, but might compensate by only using the odd Numen (such as Aggressive Meme or Implant Mission) compared to a hunter angel that boosts Attributes and Blasts away.
              At least since the angel is physically present Banes should cause aggravated damage.

              Edit: Also, what do you think about researching Bane/Ban for angels? I know that the target number is already raised for angels but it makes no sense to me that it's even possible to research them by mundane means. At least not without access to special libraries (such as the one Deva Corporation has compiled), and like Deva Corporation's library they're likely both hidden and restricted.
              I'm instead thinking that (for mortal campaigns, I might add) angels in Covers replace their Ban with a Glitch (based on the Ban if possible, severity based on Rank). That would dramatically increase the odds of the players interacting with that trait short of ST fiat basically telling the players what the Ban is.
              Does that make sense to you?
              Last edited by Tessie; 04-23-2018, 11:11 AM.


              Bloodline: The Stygians
              Ordo Dracul Mystery: Coil of Smoke
              Mage The Awakening: Spell Quick Reference (single page and landscape for computer screens)

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              • Originally posted by Tessie View Post

                ​So, how would you guys treat it?
                Would you allow it use Manifestations and let it return to the Cover once the Manifestation has ended? Is the Cover lost if it discorporates? Should it protect against Essence bleed as if it was Materialized? Angels in Covers probably spend more time away from Infrastructure meaning they would bleed more, but might compensate by only using the odd Numen (such as Aggressive Meme or Implant Mission) compared to a hunter angel that boosts Attributes and Blasts away.
                At least since the angel is physically present Banes should cause aggravated damage.
                Hmm... would an angel in Cover even move away from its position at its supporting Infrastructure in the first place, though?

                Been a while since I read Demon stuff, so I may be completely off here. I should abstain from asserting or guessing until I read at least the core again.

                Edit: Also, what do you think about researching Bane/Ban for angels? I know that the target number is already raised for angels but it makes no sense to me that it's even possible to research them by mundane means. At least not without access to special libraries (such as the one Deva Corporation has compiled), and like Deva Corporation's library they're likely both hidden and restricted.
                I'm instead thinking that (for mortal campaigns, I might add) angels in Covers replace their Ban with a Glitch (based on the Ban if possible, severity based on Rank). That would dramatically increase the odds of the players interacting with that trait short of ST fiat basically telling the players what the Ban is.
                Does that make sense to you?
                Sounds good enough.


                MtAw Homebrew: Even more Legacies, updated to 2E

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                • Originally posted by 21C Hermit View Post
                  Hmm... would an angel in Cover even move away from its position at its supporting Infrastructure in the first place, though?
                  If it's in Cover it's because it's working with humans. There are very few places humans can stay at 24/7 without drawing attention to themselves.


                  Bloodline: The Stygians
                  Ordo Dracul Mystery: Coil of Smoke
                  Mage The Awakening: Spell Quick Reference (single page and landscape for computer screens)

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                  • Originally posted by 21C Hermit View Post

                    Hmm... would an angel in Cover even move away from its position at its supporting Infrastructure in the first place, though?
                    A hunter would. But it's also unclear what it means to be "at its supporting Infrastructure". Does an Angel need its own Infrastructure, or can it be any Infrastructure? How much time do they have to spend there? Do they have to just be around it or do they need to jack in and refuel? And what's the limit of "their infrastructure", anyway? Would an angel summoned to stalk a specific city count the whole thing as Infrastructure?

                    When I ran into this problem a while back it was specifically in the context of a squad of hunter angels in Cover getting beamed in due to an absolutely monumentally series of Cover failures (three rolls, 22 dice, not once success). I ruled that they did not suffer Essence bleed and were able to use their Influences and Numina, but since they had been called in post-haste they didn't have access to any local Infrastructure to refuel. I did this to make starving them out an option, although they may then have resorted to human sacrifice - it didn't come to much since they ended up dispatching them pretty handily since i vastly overestimated the threat posed by a Rank 2 anything.

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                    • Originally posted by Terrorforge View Post
                      Does an Angel need its own Infrastructure, or can it be any Infrastructure?
                      The Infrastructure Condition implies it has to be its own Infrastructure.

                      Originally posted by Terrorforge View Post
                      How much time do they have to spend there? Do they have to just be around it or do they need to jack in and refuel?
                      I think it's just that they have to visit it once per day to get the 1 Essence. The main things about it as a Manifestation Condition is that it protects from bleed while the angel stays, and is the foundation for additional Manifestation Conditions.

                      Originally posted by Terrorforge View Post
                      And what's the limit of "their infrastructure", anyway? Would an angel summoned to stalk a specific city count the whole thing as Infrastructure?
                      Considering that Raze Infrastructure would be able to destroy the entire city, I sure hope not. No, the Infrastructure tagged to the angel would only be the Infrastructure that summoned it.


                      Bloodline: The Stygians
                      Ordo Dracul Mystery: Coil of Smoke
                      Mage The Awakening: Spell Quick Reference (single page and landscape for computer screens)

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                      • Could Ephemeral Cover be used to generate a Cover of a strix? Or an infernal demon?

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                        • Originally posted by BacchicOne View Post
                          Could Ephemeral Cover be used to generate a Cover of a strix? Or an infernal demon?
                          No. It specifically allows you to create a Cover as either a ghost or spirit.

                          However, allowing it to work on other ephemeral entities seems like a perfectly fine effect for an Interlock or near-field gadget.

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                          • Originally posted by BacchicOne View Post
                            Could Ephemeral Cover be used to generate a Cover of a strix? Or an infernal demon?
                            Strix aren’t ephemeral creatures, technically speaking. They use a similar template for traits OOC, but IC they’re literally made of smoke and shadows. I’d be very (albeit somewhat pleasantly) surprised if later books allow Strix Covers.

                            Now Infernal demons... diaboli are corrupted ephemeral entities, so maybe they can be reaped. Whisperers, Dominions and Malus Loci, most likely not.


                            MtAw Homebrew: Even more Legacies, updated to 2E

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                            • Just wanted to make sure of something... at character creation, is it 3 merit dots or 5 to increase Primum?

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                              • Originally posted by Raktus View Post
                                Just wanted to make sure of something... at character creation, is it 3 merit dots or 5 to increase Primum?
                                Demon was in an awkward phase when it came out. It was the first game properly in the format standard for Chronicles of Darkness, so players started with 10 dots of merits instead of 7, but it had a few niggles left over from New World of Darkness, so it told players to spend 3 experiences to raise their starting Primum instead of 5. As per every other game since, I would go with 5 experiences. You could go with as the book states, but that means an enterprising player could start gameplay with 1 merit dot and Primum 4, try to rush their Cipher, and end up at Primum 7 before everyone else.

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