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Ask a simple question, get a simple answer (Demon the Descent)

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  • Y'all have an old version of the PDF. It's five Merit dots per dot of Primum.


    Bloodline: The Stygians
    Ordo Dracul Mysteries: Mystery of Smoke, Revised Mystery of Živa
    Mage The Awakening: Spell Quick Reference (single page and landscape for computer screens)

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    • New question...
      If you Partially Transformed with the Deathgrip Process (If the demon’s body remains more or less intact, he rises from the dead with no Aether) and then died... would you revert back to human and be dead, or would the process stay in effect and bring you back?

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      • It isn't part of the core book, so that Process does need some tweaking...along with the one that allows you to regain aether just by being out in sunlight. Rule it as you will - perhaps it only works in full Demon form?

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        • Originally posted by Raktus View Post
          New question...
          If you Partially Transformed with the Deathgrip Process (If the demon’s body remains more or less intact, he rises from the dead with no Aether) and then died... would you revert back to human and be dead, or would the process stay in effect and bring you back?
          I don't see any reason for this not to work when partially manifested just like any other demon form ability.

          The suggested physical description for the thing is very obvious, so I wouldn't really worry about people walking around with it on 'incognito' or anything.

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          • Originally posted by lnodiv View Post
            I don't see any reason for this not to work when partially manifested just like any other demon form ability.

            The suggested physical description for the thing is very obvious, so I wouldn't really worry about people walking around with it on 'incognito' or anything.
            With Deep Cover and Show of Power, you could pull off a nice Mummy impersonation with it, though.


            Malkydel: "And the Machine dictated; let there be adequate illumination."
            Yossarian: "And lo, it was optimal."

            Comment


            • Ok it's a really silly question.
              Pretty often in manuals it's said that God-machine gears are invisible to mortals.
              How should we interpret it?
              God-machine gears are actually invisible to humans? Or it's just a metaphor to tell that god-machine stuff is very well concealed to human eyes?

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              • Originally posted by Ipergigio View Post
                Ok it's a really silly question.
                Pretty often in manuals it's said that God-machine gears are invisible to mortals.
                How should we interpret it?
                God-machine gears are actually invisible to humans? Or it's just a metaphor to tell that god-machine stuff is very well concealed to human eyes?
                I’ve always considered it to be a bit of both. Most would be well hidden, but a normal human that comes too close to one anyway would subconsciously avoid getting their limbs mangled by any moving parts without noticing.


                Jason Ross Inczauskis, Freelance Writer
                Currently writing: Dark Eras 2, Mummy: The Curse 2e, Pirates of Pugmire, TC In Media Res. Previous projects: DtD Night Horrors: Enemy Action; C20 Anthology of Dreams
                Masculine pronouns preferred.

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                • Most (all?) Infrastructure is hidden, either in space-time folds humans can't normally access, using mundane deception or iirc behind "psychic blocks" that a mortal's attention just sort of slides off. If nothing else it's strongly implied that mortals in the nWoD, probably as a result of the God-Machine's meddling, have a strong instinct to ignore and suppress memories of inexplicable phenomena. So even if they do catch a glimpse of something, 99% of humans will just tell themselves they imagined it and get on with their lives.

                  But I have to assume that if the mortal does somehow pierce the veil (stumble through the portal, crack open the apartment walls to find the pipes are made of gold lattice, get dragged into the not-a-pizza-place by a demon) the gears are not literally invisible to them. Otherwise you're adding a lot of weird, unnecessary baggage to the God-Machine Chronicles as a concept.

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                  • I run it like this: Some are directly invisible (possibly because it's in Twilight, in which case it's also mostly intangible), some are camouflaged by supernatural effects (the giant, floating gear looks like a weird statue or the corona of an out-of-place tree; these tend to look weird), some are hidden behind a front (the production facility produces both parts for other Infrastructure as well as regular car parts), and some are under a "perception filter" to borrow a term from Doctor Who (it's there and fully visible, but people just refuse to look at it; at least until someone forces them to or the filter is shut down).
                    It's only in the first example someone with Unseen Sense wouldn't be able to see the Infrastructure, but still know for certain that something close is giving them the telltale goosebumps or headaches that indicates the presence of the God-Machine. In the "mundane front" example they'd be able to see the Infrastructure, but without taking Spooked they might not be able to figure out that's the Infrastructure that's pinging their Unseen Sense. They will still have an easier time figure it out since they know something's up.

                    Edit: Sometimes multiple methods of concealment might apply. The giant brain scanner that reads the minds of everyone in this sleepy little town might both be camouflaged as a nearby radio/phone tower, and function like one.
                    Last edited by Tessie; 05-22-2018, 08:56 AM.


                    Bloodline: The Stygians
                    Ordo Dracul Mysteries: Mystery of Smoke, Revised Mystery of Živa
                    Mage The Awakening: Spell Quick Reference (single page and landscape for computer screens)

                    Comment


                    • Is Particianed Memory from the Storyteller's Guide bad to use in normal gameplay? It is in the Silent hacks, and my ST has been very reluctant to allow us to take it, but I am not sure what is so dangerous about it.

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                      • Just wondering... is there a way for an Unchained to learn High Speech?

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                        • Originally posted by Raktus View Post
                          Just wondering... is there a way for an Unchained to learn High Speech?
                          Not on paper as of now, afaik. Which isn't to say it couldn't happen in your game, but it would be a Big Deal, because the reason demons (and in fact, everyone except mages) cannot speak or learn High Speech is that it isn't a language in the traditional fallen world sense - it relies on supernal symbolism that can only be interpreted by those who are attuned to the Supernal. Demons cannot learn to speak High Speech for the same reason humans cannot learn to speak radio waves; they lack the sensory apparatus.

                          Now in theory it should be possible to modify a demon in some way to allow for it. The 4-dot Prime spell "Apocalypse" grants Mage Sight. It doesn't explicitly give the ability to comprehend High Speech, but it is my understanding that doing so is connected to having Mage Sight. At the very least, a custom 4 or 5-dot Prime spell should be able to grant the ability. If the demon were to gain the ability as some kind of permanent, inherent effect, that would be a very custom Form Ability or something, the existence of which would have interesting cosmological ramification, depending on where it came from.

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                          • Originally posted by Terrorforge View Post
                            Not on paper as of now, afaik. Which isn't to say it couldn't happen in your game, but it would be a Big Deal, because the reason demons (and in fact, everyone except mages) cannot speak or learn High Speech is that it isn't a language in the traditional fallen world sense - it relies on supernal symbolism that can only be interpreted by those who are attuned to the Supernal. Demons cannot learn to speak High Speech for the same reason humans cannot learn to speak radio waves; they lack the sensory apparatus.

                            Now in theory it should be possible to modify a demon in some way to allow for it. The 4-dot Prime spell "Apocalypse" grants Mage Sight. It doesn't explicitly give the ability to comprehend High Speech, but it is my understanding that doing so is connected to having Mage Sight. At the very least, a custom 4 or 5-dot Prime spell should be able to grant the ability. If the demon were to gain the ability as some kind of permanent, inherent effect, that would be a very custom Form Ability or something, the existence of which would have interesting cosmological ramification, depending on where it came from.
                            Alternatively, a Demon might build an Apocalypse Gadget (using Show of Power), they use that to start to decide the "gibberish" that is High Speech.

                            But, as no human "natively" speaks it, Demons don't get it as part of their language package.


                            Malkydel: "And the Machine dictated; let there be adequate illumination."
                            Yossarian: "And lo, it was optimal."

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Vent0 View Post

                              Alternatively, a Demon might build an Apocalypse Gadget (using Show of Power), they use that to start to decide the "gibberish" that is High Speech.

                              But, as no human "natively" speaks it, Demons don't get it as part of their language package.
                              It doesn't have to be native to humans; demons explicitly do speak First Tongue, which is native only to spirits. And like I said, even if you were to somehow raise a native speaker of High Speech, demons still could not use it because it cannot be understood without Peripheral Mage Sight. They can't do it, because they lack the necessary connection to the Supernal.

                              Unless of course raising a native speaker of High Speech gave demons a connection to the Supernal. Now there's an end-game crossover chronicle!

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                              • Originally posted by Terrorforge View Post
                                It doesn't have to be native to humans; demons explicitly do speak First Tongue, which is native only to spirits. And like I said, even if you were to somehow raise a native speaker of High Speech, demons still could not use it because it cannot be understood without Peripheral Mage Sight. They can't do it, because they lack the necessary connection to the Supernal.

                                Unless of course raising a native speaker of High Speech gave demons a connection to the Supernal. Now there's an end-game crossover chronicle!
                                As far as the First Tongue goes, I'm betting we have the Pure to thank for that. Some enclave has probably raised their human offspring to speak the First Tongue as a first language. High Speech, on the other hand, can't be taught to someone as a first language - you need to be Awakened to make sense of it, so unless someone learned literally no language at all until they Awakened, it wouldn't count. And once they Awakened, it still might not count, since they are no longer vanilla human.

                                Clarification: When I used "native language" I meant a person's first language, which they use internally and compare others to.


                                Malkydel: "And the Machine dictated; let there be adequate illumination."
                                Yossarian: "And lo, it was optimal."

                                Comment

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