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  • Originally posted by Vent0 View Post

    As far as the First Tongue goes, I'm betting we have the Pure to thank for that. Some enclave has probably raised their human offspring to speak the First Tongue as a first language. High Speech, on the other hand, can't be taught to someone as a first language - you need to be Awakened to make sense of it, so unless someone learned literally no language at all until they Awakened, it wouldn't count. And once they Awakened, it still might not count, since they are no longer vanilla human.

    Clarification: When I used "native language" I meant a person's first language, which they use internally and compare others to.
    The language of the book implies they can speak it because spirits do ("By the same token, demons can use Natural Aptitude to speak First Tongue (the “native language” of spirits")). But then it also says "native human language" so who knows.

    Either way you're right that raising a native speaker of High Speech would be tricky at best. Can children Awaken? Even if they officially cannot, an Awakened baby could happen as a plot point, especially if the sort of shady types who'd kidnap a child and teach it only an esoteric proto-language as an experiment were also attempting to induce Awakenings. Somebody like, I don't know, mages?

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    • Originally posted by Terrorforge View Post
      The language of the book implies they can speak it because spirits do ("By the same token, demons can use Natural Aptitude to speak First Tongue (the “native language” of spirits&quot). But then it also says "native human language" so who knows.

      Either way you're right that raising a native speaker of High Speech would be tricky at best. Can children Awaken? Even if they officially cannot, an Awakened baby could happen as a plot point, especially if the sort of shady types who'd kidnap a child and teach it only an esoteric proto-language as an experiment were also attempting to induce Awakenings. Somebody like, I don't know, mages?
      It's possible to force an Awakening through Imperial Magic, but even then High Speech is not a language in the usual sense. Imagine the structural formulae of chemistry. Now apply a much more complex version of that to all of reality. You can speak it, but only through nomenclature mapped to the symbols rather than through the freeform and loose words of regular languages.


      Bloodline: The Stygians
      Ordo Dracul Mysteries: Mystery of Smoke, Revised Mystery of Živa
      Mage The Awakening: Spell Quick Reference (single page and landscape for computer screens)

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      • It should also be noted that the book Mage The Awakening Second Edition goes out of its way to never refer to High Speech directly as a language. Either "language" is in quotes or it's described in relation to real languages: "it’s more the symbol of a language than a real language"
        On top of all that you still need some sort of supernatural power to even interpret High Speech. As such not even the Mage spell Universal Language enables non-mages to understand High Speech, and that spell extends to stuff like body language, hand gestures, other types of symbols, and even encoded signals.


        Bloodline: The Stygians
        Ordo Dracul Mysteries: Mystery of Smoke, Revised Mystery of Živa
        Mage The Awakening: Spell Quick Reference (single page and landscape for computer screens)

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        • Would Polybius make good infustruscre

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          • Originally posted by Konradleijon View Post
            Would Polybius make good infustruscre
            As in, the urban legend/ conspiracy theory?

            Every urban legend and conspiracy theory can be mined for Demon inspiration, much more than science fiction and space opera, so go wild.


            MtAw Homebrew: Even more Legacies, updated to 2E

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            • More of a terminology thing (and thus not directly related to Demon: the Descent), but what are some other names/terms for someone descended from Demons? Not Demon-blooded, Offspring, Fractal, or Nephilim - those are already terms that exist in setting/material. I'm looking for new ones. The best I can figure is Cambion (which is already used in Changeling), but I'm hoping there are a few more.


              I'm working on a "Demon-blooded lineage" template, which changes the "normal" Demon-blooded Cipher into something more like the Unchained one and doubles as the Power Stat. Their effective Primum being equal to the number of Key's they've unlocked. Still, having a ready, identifiable name would help.


              Malkydel: "And the Machine dictated; let there be adequate illumination."
              Yossarian: "And lo, it was optimal."

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              • When a Demon makes a pact, is the duration paid for on just the Demon's end, or is it something that is put onto both sides? The books make the matter a trifle confusing since it notes that the duration for Demons and Humans can be different, and Interface is inconsistent with whether or not the pact durations are different (such as on 125).
                Last edited by Taidragon; 06-08-2018, 08:35 PM.

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                • Originally posted by Taidragon View Post
                  When a Demon makes a pact, is the duration paid for on just the Demon's end, or is it something that is put onto both sides? The books make the matter a trifle confusing since it notes that the duration for Demons and Humans can be different, and Interface is inconsistent with whether or not the pact durations are different (such as on 125).
                  I would say that the duration is paid for based on the longest involved, rather than paying for each side. If not, then the price of a pact would become dangerously high just for having permanent benefits on both sides, before the cost of said benefits are even calculated into it. As I recall, the sample pacts in the core would support this interpretation.


                  Jason Ross Inczauskis
                  Freelance Writer
                  Currently writing: Dark Eras 2, TC In Media Res
                  Previous projects: DtD Night Horrors: Enemy Action (Alban, Beelzebub, Oxblood Mold, Whispering Oak); C20 Anthology of Dreams ("No Such Thing As Dragons")

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                  • Originally posted by White Oak Dragon View Post

                    I would say that the duration is paid for based on the longest involved, rather than paying for each side. If not, then the price of a pact would become dangerously high just for having permanent benefits on both sides, before the cost of said benefits are even calculated into it. As I recall, the sample pacts in the core would support this interpretation.
                    That isn't quite what I meant; I had presumed that when a Demon calculated duration of the pact, it was always put on the Demon's side of the equation and that the duration for the Demon was the duration for both sides. However, a friend noticed inconsistencies where the Human side of the equation would also get the duration of the pact put on in the samples for pacts, and bits of elaboration where the human side of a pact isn't always the same duration as the Demon's side. Considering that this is a difference of up to three willpower for a pact, I wanted to ask and double check on that matter.

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                    • Soooo, to regain aether a demon can interface itself with an infrastructure, in the core book, it says you gain 4 aether per turn while connected to an infrastucture and you have to make a wits+craft roll to disengage yourself.
                      Then in Flowers of hell it says that aether gained from infrastructure varies and you generally don't have to roll to disengage, but in case of emergency they require a Resolve+Primum roll. So wich one is it ? Unless i'm confused and these are both different things ?


                      .

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                      • Originally posted by Emerick View Post
                        Soooo, to regain aether a demon can interface itself with an infrastructure, in the core book, it says you gain 4 aether per turn while connected to an infrastucture and you have to make a wits+craft roll to disengage yourself.
                        Then in Flowers of hell it says that aether gained from infrastructure varies and you generally don't have to roll to disengage, but in case of emergency they require a Resolve+Primum roll. So wich one is it ? Unless i'm confused and these are both different things ?
                        The Flowers Of Hell version is an update to the system. The new way not only makes Infrastructure less assured to grant aether, as well as more varied in the skills required to examine it, but it also means that a Demon doesn't need to be good in Wits or Crafts to disengage from Infrastructure once they have collected the information/aether from it.

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                        • Ok so I'm really confused on demon emotions. Do they feel actual emotion only in cover (and their emotions in cover stay the same through each cover. For example, no matter what cover a demon is, if they love a specific person, they will feel that way no matter what cover they are in). And do they lose the these emotions while going loud, due to lacking being human

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                          • Originally posted by Primordial newcomer View Post
                            Ok so I'm really confused on demon emotions. Do they feel actual emotion only in cover (and their emotions in cover stay the same through each cover. For example, no matter what cover a demon is, if they love a specific person, they will feel that way no matter what cover they are in).
                            They feel emotion regardless of their form, they just retain control over any possible outward expression of it they might make.

                            And do they lose the these emotions while going loud, due to lacking being human
                            The opposite, in fact — reference the Demonic Conditions on pages 209-10 of the corebook.


                            Resident Sanguinary Analyst
                            Currently Consuming: Changeling: the Lost 1e

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                            • Thank you Satchel

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                              • Demons do feel emotion, but this is somewhat modified by their current Cover (the books cite the effects of hormones and other chemicals affecting the brain and such). So the Demon would feel the same general emotions toward a subject regardless, but it will be more "cool" or objective in Demonic Form, and (depending on how you want to rule attraction vis a vis the Demon's Covers) the physiological response might be a bit different unless the Demon explicitly overrides that.


                                Malkydel: "And the Machine dictated; let there be adequate illumination."
                                Yossarian: "And lo, it was optimal."

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