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Ask a simple question, get a simple answer (Demon the Descent)

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  • Stupid Loserman
    replied
    Originally posted by Konradleijon View Post
    What would the God-Machine do To keep a Demon-Blooded Mage Character with a Completed Cipher.
    Whatever amount of effort and resources produce a net benefit in exchange for keeping the sorcerous sleeper agent active, no more and no less.

    If that's not a very useful answer, it's because this question is extremely hard to answer in the abstract. What actual decisions is it weighing against each other?

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  • Konradleijon
    replied
    What would the God-Machine do To keep a Demon-Blooded Mage Character with a Completed Cipher.

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  • Eremite
    replied
    Originally posted by Stupid Loserman View Post

    I wouldn't allow a demonic pact to "remove from play" an identifier by bargaining for it without putting it anywhere. At my table, it doesn't come off the pactee until it goes onto a Cover.
    I wouldn't allow identifiers to be pasted onto a facade either. A facade is borrowed, not owned, and it's too thin a material to work with.

    Patch it onto a Cover you intend to burn anyway? I'd allow it.

    I've made an NPC, The Kindly One, who does this,... and gives the cancer-striken patch jobs to demons in need of an emergency Cover, Never could work them into a book but always wanted to

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  • KieranMullen
    replied
    Originally posted by ajf115 View Post
    As a demon, can I cure a degenerative disease by Pacting for it, and then just never patching that element into one of my Covers, or sticking it on a Facade or burn Cover?
    A demon can make a pact with a homeless person giving them riches in return for the love of a childhood sweetheart - the demon doesn't have to take on their poverty or homelessness.

    A demon can give an ugly person the Merit "Striking Looks" in return for their "loss of a child" experience, without having to take on the human's ugly features.

    So I would think that a demon can make a pact giving someone the Merit "Hardy" or "Robust" without taking on the human's illness.

    Of course, YMMV.

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  • Stupid Loserman
    replied
    Originally posted by ajf115 View Post
    As a demon, can I cure a degenerative disease by Pacting for it, and then just never patching that element into one of my Covers, or sticking it on a Facade or burn Cover?
    I wouldn't allow a demonic pact to "remove from play" an identifier by bargaining for it without putting it anywhere. At my table, it doesn't come off the pactee until it goes onto a Cover.
    I wouldn't allow identifiers to be pasted onto a facade either. A facade is borrowed, not owned, and it's too thin a material to work with.

    Patch it onto a Cover you intend to burn anyway? I'd allow it.

    Leave a comment:


  • ajf115
    replied
    As a demon, can I cure a degenerative disease by Pacting for it, and then just never patching that element into one of my Covers, or sticking it on a Facade or burn Cover?

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  • Satchel
    replied
    Originally posted by Deinos View Post
    Are glitches an alternative to cover loss and condition or just conditions?
    Just the Conditions.

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  • Deinos
    replied
    Are glitches an alternative to cover loss and condition or just conditions?

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  • Stupid Loserman
    replied
    Originally posted by ajf115 View Post
    What methods do demons have to see into Twilight?
    If you're using the Demon Translation Guide's (pretty well written overall) translated demonic form abilities, Ghost Sight is listed as a Modification that allows the demon to perceive Twilit ghosts and spirits.

    A demon could enter ghostly or spiritual Twilight herself with the use of an Ephemeral Cover. This, mind, first requires her to rend ghosts or spirits into Cover material, which will be a challenge (but not impossible) without the ability to peer into Twilight.

    A demon could also enter astral Twilight with the Decoy Exploit from the Interface, but unless you've got a local outbreak of projecting psychics or summoned goetia, you're not going to find it very populated.

    Demons aren't generally well equipped to deal with unmanifested ephemera. A determined demon could probably hammer out near-field gadgets to interface with particular phases of Twilight as the most accessible method. Whatever the case, the ability to perceive angelic Twilight is probably not something a demonic power can do casually, if at all: it undermines the paranoia. (Conversely, most angels shouldn't be able to just safely and invisibly zot demons without manifesting. There is, however, plenty of horrid shit they could do to a tailed demon without having to materialize and start a fistfight.)

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  • Neos01
    replied
    Originally posted by ajf115 View Post
    What methods do demons have to see into Twilight?
    As far as i know they can only emulate other powers with the Exploit Show of power

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  • ajf115
    replied
    What methods do demons have to see into Twilight?

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  • Michael
    replied
    Originally posted by KieranMullen View Post
    I'd rule that on a success the demon always appears to believe what it chooses to show.
    I disagree. Liar's Tongue specifically calls out that the ability to believe things is only really useful for supernatural purposes. Further, whilst Total Control means that a demon doesn't have involuntary physiological responses, it also means they need to deliberately project some of those responses in order to look convincing, therefore they need to know what those responses are (the subterfuge skill). It specifically mentions that social expression is a skill, and one that some Demon's never learn.

    So, the Subterfuge 0 demon can lie with a straight face, but that lie is probably going to be miscalculated because the Demon doesn't really know what physiological responses to project to look convincing.

    Empathy would pick up on the weird response.

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  • KieranMullen
    replied
    Originally posted by Tessie View Post
    In short, that side bar you're looking for doesn't exist. The rules are as follows:
    Any attempts to read lies through supernatural means automatically fail (if the demon wants them to fail).
    Any attempts to read lies based on physiological responses automatically fail.
    Any other mundane attempts to read lies will be contested with a relevant Attribute+Skill roll with no stated modifications to the roll.
    I'd rule that on a success the demon always appears to believe what it chooses to show. That the Attribute+Skill roll success simply reveals that choice. The perceiver can still fail that skill roll, though and not discern whatever the demon had chosen.
    So a demon could choose to subtly convey "I am lying" and the perceiver could fail to pick up on it!

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  • Timecrafter
    replied
    Originally posted by Tessie View Post
    In short, that side bar you're looking for doesn't exist. The rules are as follows:
    Any attempts to read lies through supernatural means automatically fail (if the demon wants them to fail).
    Any attempts to read lies based on physiological responses automatically fail.
    Any other mundane attempts to read lies will be contested with a relevant Attribute+Skill roll with no stated modifications to the roll.
    Thank you! I thought it existed but I had missed it. ^^

    Leave a comment:


  • Mr.F.I.X.
    replied
    The demon reads as they believe they are telling the truth but that doesn't automatically mean that it is believed. They can say the sky is not-blue and all detection will detect as they believe they are telling the truth but a casual look up will reveal that is not true.

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