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  • I started reading night horrors. I've got a question about the angels in the night horror book. Why don't they have intercepts?

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    • Also is there a difference between an angel being Materialized vs in cover?

      I feel like this is something they freaking need to actually explain. Do angels need mortal mask to have a cover?

      So far for me I use mortal mask when I want an angel to not just have a cover but can change its look when needed

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      • Originally posted by Basic View Post
        I started reading night horrors. I've got a question about the angels in the night horror book. Why don't they have intercepts?
        Most likely to save on wordcount from having to explain what Incepts were, and to allow STs the ability to play around with what Incepts they’d have.

        Originally posted by Basic View Post
        Also is there a difference between an angel being Materialized vs in cover?

        I feel like this is something they freaking need to actually explain. Do angels need mortal mask to have a cover?

        So far for me I use mortal mask when I want an angel to not just have a cover but can change its look when needed
        A Materialized Angel is an Angel in its true form; an Angel in Cover has it Materialized, but hidden from the world as a normal human. Materialized still has an Angel suffer Essence Bleed unless it’s in Infrastructure, but Cover is technically Infrastructure itself minus any Essence/Aether, so an Angel can exist in Cover comfortably without losing Essence.

        It isn’t stated outright that Mortal Mask is the same as Cover, but seeing as how not every Angel with Cover has Mortal Mask, I’d say that Mortal Mask is simply a cruder, more immediate alternative. Cover tends to look entirely human, barring perhaps a rune or sigil (as per the Angels in the Chronicles of Darkness book), whereas Mortal Mask explicitely has something off about it that marks the being out if someone looks closely. An Angel with Mortal Mask could probably get around while materialized, but a Cover would allow it to work far more casually and without needing to spend Essence to activate it.
        Last edited by Taidragon; 01-23-2019, 05:01 PM.

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        • Originally posted by Basic View Post
          Also is there a difference between an angel being Materialized vs in cover?

          I feel like this is something they freaking need to actually explain. Do angels need mortal mask to have a cover?

          So far for me I use mortal mask when I want an angel to not just have a cover but can change its look when needed
          This is my understanding of the system. A word on vocabulary: technically Twilight is part of the "material world" but I don't know the word CoD uses for our plain old normal reality so I'll call that the "Material Plane".

          Angels by default are ephemeral beings and exist in Twilight. While in Twilight they can be performing tasks for the GM on any Infrastructure that might exist in Twilight, or spy on activities in the Material plane. The CoD manual states:
          Unless they Manifest or use a power to appear, ephemeral beings remain in their insubstantial state when in the mate- rial world. This state is described as “Twilight.” To beings in Twilight, physical objects appear pale and semitransparent, light sources are dimmed and sounds distorted as though underwater. Twilight isn’t an actual place, though, more a description of how ephemera interacts — or fails to interact — with material reality.
          If Angels in Twilight are away from Infrastructure for long periods of time they are subject to Essence Bleed. If they Materialize or are in Cover, they don't suffer Essence Bleed. While they are in Twilight some Numina (basically spell powers of an ephemeral being) will still allow Angels to affect the Material plane.

          Materialize is a Manifestation that allows an angel in Twilight to enter/act in the Material plane. (Manifestations are a bit odd: they are a bit like spell powers but they have a specific hierarchy of what each requires before it can be used). They are still not flesh and blood - any Lethal damage they take is merely Bashing damage. The Materialize manifestation states that it requires the "Open Condition" which can happen near Infrastructure or by the concerted actions of cultists. Thus in the right situation an angel can choose to Materialize. This state lasts for one hour per success on the activation roll (Power + Finesse).

          If it Materializes it will look like an angel, so it may choose to use the Mortal Mask Numen to disguise itself, if it has that ability. Subsequently if the angel is in danger it can chose to Discorporate as well, if it has that Manifestation, vanishing back into Twilight. Note that because Mortal Mask requires the expenditure of Essence, a demon may be able to sense that an individual is actually an angel in disguise.

          Cover differs from Materialization in that Cover is an active, ongoing state provided by a specific action of the GodMachine, and not created by some ability of an angel. Unlike Materialization, Cover does not have a time limit. There is no need for Mortal Mask since the Cover is created by the GM. Angelic cover, unlike Demonic cover, is not subject to compromise since it is maintained by the GodMachine. (By that I mean that while a demon may learn that an individual is an angel in Cover, that Cover does not degrade in the metaphysical way that a demon's Cover would degrade.) An angel in Cover is not detectable as an angel, in general, by a demon.

          When an angel is installed into a Cover identity, that identity can by hijacked by a Demon. The DtD manual does not state what happens to the incoming angel that was being installed into that Cover.

          So, in summary, Materialization is a short term entrance into the Material Plane that an angel may do by choice as part of executing its duties. Cover is a long-term state created and assigned to an angel by the GodMachine for a specific purpose.
          Last edited by KieranMullen; 01-23-2019, 07:42 PM. Reason: Fixed format and added details on detection.

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          • Originally posted by Basic View Post
            Also is there a difference between an angel being Materialized vs in cover?

            I feel like this is something they freaking need to actually explain. Do angels need mortal mask to have a cover?

            So far for me I use mortal mask when I want an angel to not just have a cover but can change its look when needed
            Cover shortcuts all the Manifestation rules as well as Mortal Mask as a piece of Infrastructure that the angel employs. Long story short, their Cover lets them act as material beings in the capcity of it's design, and is also small enough that it really doesn't have a Linchpin.

            Bunyip has been chomping at the bit to get the clarification on Cover into a book, because yeah, some elaboration would go a long way.

            As for Incepts: Enemy Action was a cramped book, with an above average number of writers for a supplement. Some things got lost in the shuffle- I couldn't squeeze in Sanjha's or Wednesdays Interlocks or Cipher, for example.


            Sean K.I.W./Kelly R.A. Steele, Freelance Writer(Feel free to call me Sean, Kelly, Arcane, or Arc)
            The world is not beautiful, therefore it is.-Keiichi Sigsawa, Kino's Journey
            Male/neutral pronouns accepted, female pronouns enjoyed.

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            • KieranMullen I applaud you for your breakdown. Much more accurate than my own above.

              Originally posted by ArcaneArts View Post
              Cover shortcuts all the Manifestation rules as well as Mortal Mask as a piece of Infrastructure that the angel employs. Long story short, their Cover lets them act as material beings in the capcity of it's design, and is also small enough that it really doesn't have a Linchpin.

              Bunyip has been chomping at the bit to get the clarification on Cover into a book, because yeah, some elaboration would go a long way.

              As for Incepts: Enemy Action was a cramped book, with an above average number of writers for a supplement. Some things got lost in the shuffle- I couldn't squeeze in Sanjha's or Wednesdays Interlocks or Cipher, for example.
              Is it possible for us to get a snippet on what those Interlocks and or Ciphers were like?
              Last edited by Taidragon; 01-23-2019, 08:06 PM.

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              • Originally posted by Basic View Post
                I started reading night horrors. I've got a question about the angels in the night horror book. Why don't they have intercepts?
                No published Angel has Incepts, AFAIK. In the case of Night Horrors, I can only speculate. While the book is aimed at DtD players, a lot of it is adaptable to other CoD campaigns. By avoiding Incepts (which are not even in the core DtD manual), the Night Horrors book has a larger potential audience. A lot of the entries are useful in any chronicle based on the GodMachine.

                I can't explain why the angels in the DSG lack Incepts. Probably something to do with deadlines. Incepts are really powerful, and amusing to spring on Demon players who only know the core book.

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                • To clarify some things.
                  Can Angels Spoof?

                  And in general about Spoofing - when you spoof an effect, you shouldn't be betrayed as non-human, at the same time, supposedly, that doesn't stop the effect. What happens with something like Clairvoyant Sight trying to look at a Demon? If he can't spoof - his true identity will be easily found out. If he can spoof, what does the Sight user actually see? I'm talking about a situation where a Demon has two covers, so seeing the truth would immediately betray him.


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                  • Originally posted by Griautis View Post
                    To clarify some things.
                    Can Angels Spoof?
                    They don't need to.

                    And in general about Spoofing - when you spoof an effect, you shouldn't be betrayed as non-human, at the same time, supposedly, that doesn't stop the effect. What happens with something like Clairvoyant Sight trying to look at a Demon? If he can't spoof - his true identity will be easily found out. If he can spoof, what does the Sight user actually see? I'm talking about a situation where a Demon has two covers, so seeing the truth would immediately betray him.
                    "Cover X and Cover Y are the same person" doesn't actually give away the fact that a character is a supernatural being outside of the implications of an extremely large subtractive difference in bodily volume from a known physical body, a demon can't change Covers under observation, and Clairvoyant Sight in particular is a power that requires concentration to use.


                    Resident Sanguinary Analyst
                    Currently Consuming: Changeling: the Lost 1e

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                    • Originally posted by Satchel View Post
                      They don't need to.
                      Why not? If a Demon uses Aura Sight on them, the Angel might really wanna appear human.

                      Originally posted by Satchel View Post
                      "Cover X and Cover Y are the same person" doesn't actually give away the fact that a character is a supernatural being outside of the implications of an extremely large subtractive difference in bodily volume from a known physical body, a demon can't change Covers under observation, and Clairvoyant Sight, in particular, is a power that requires concentration to use.
                      I don't see a situation where a Demon uses Clairvoyant Sight on a person, and instead of observing a man of one race, sees a teenage girl of a different race, doesn't immediately go "demon". Supposedly, a situation Spoofing should help against? Unless I'm wrong about that.
                      OR, since the covers were changed, we could say he doesn't get to see anything. Which is as damning as the first situation, since normal humans don't disappear out of this plane of existence for lols.


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                      • Originally posted by Griautis View Post
                        Why not? If a Demon uses Aura Sight on them, the Angel might really wanna appear human.
                        And so they will. They're angels, they don't have to worry about maintenance to avoid directly pinging as a supernatural being because the vast majority of investigators aren't going to roll more successes than God.

                        I don't see a situation where a Demon uses Clairvoyant Sight on a person, and instead of observing a man of one race, sees a teenage girl of a different race, doesn't immediately go "demon". Supposedly, a situation Spoofing should help against? Unless I'm wrong about that.
                        Demons inhabit a setting where "shapeshifting reptilian" is a common variety of cryptid and God simultaneously has no OSHA compliance for Its inner workings (because people aren't supposed to be exposed to those things and develop paranormal abilities) and routinely assigns complex routines that call for everything from sleeper commands to life-swapping to inscrutable curses. There's a lot of other explanations for going "show me This Guy" and getting That Guy that aren't "This Guy is a rogue archon like myself."

                        Setting aside how spoofing is there to keep you from getting directly pinned down by a supernatural power and most personally-targeted remote-viewing powers only tell you where the target is by implication, I did mention a difference in body type specifically as an example.
                        OR, since the covers were changed, we could say he doesn't get to see anything. Which is as damning as the first situation, since normal humans don't disappear out of this plane of existence for lols.
                        You may notice, if you look around, that Clairvoyant Sight is an outlier in the field of direct-target powers re: not needing a roll. Sometimes your supernatural powers just fizzle. Given the limitations of Clairvoyant Sight in particular, an equally sensible takeaway is that that person you're peering through the wiring to look at was being impersonated by the person you met and you haven't met the actual person in a month.

                        Or a successful spoof shows you the character in the Cover you were looking for. High-level deception-aids don't make the Unchained immune to people putting together a dozen little clues.


                        Resident Sanguinary Analyst
                        Currently Consuming: Changeling: the Lost 1e

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                        • Originally posted by Griautis View Post

                          Why not? If a Demon uses Aura Sight on them, the Angel might really wanna appear human.


                          I don't see a situation where a Demon uses Clairvoyant Sight on a person, and instead of observing a man of one race, sees a teenage girl of a different race, doesn't immediately go "demon". Supposedly, a situation Spoofing should help against? Unless I'm wrong about that.
                          OR, since the covers were changed, we could say he doesn't get to see anything. Which is as damning as the first situation, since normal humans don't disappear out of this plane of existence for lols.
                          Clairvoyant Sight doesn't reveal the nature of the beast and instead is limited by the visual information at display. If you happen to take enough time and covers are near enough, it's not inconceivable to perceive it as someone switching between costumes. If it's close enough that there's not enough time and effort possible for that...well, you live in a world of shapeshifters and quick-workers-a good Wizened can probably do a costume switch faster than normal, the Inguma are a thing, Biokinetics will mess with your day, and the list goes on. A demon can't change without the benefit of Schrodinger's Joke-Basis, so the context clues needed to answer those questions are mostly missing.

                          Also, Clairvoyant sight isn't flawless-it can fail to see people, so if for any reason it doesn't find a cover in any scenario, it's not impossible that it's the power failing as much as someone blinking out.

                          I don't have my books, so no word on Aura Sight there, though one must note that with Rank and various other things, Angels are kind of hard to reveal as supernatural.


                          Sean K.I.W./Kelly R.A. Steele, Freelance Writer(Feel free to call me Sean, Kelly, Arcane, or Arc)
                          The world is not beautiful, therefore it is.-Keiichi Sigsawa, Kino's Journey
                          Male/neutral pronouns accepted, female pronouns enjoyed.

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                          • Clairvoyant Sight has no fail condition in it or anything. "It just fails" is very unlikely to fly at my table. Perhaps a roll is what this power actually needs...


                            My Bloodline conversions
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                            • I would like to have some GM boosted cultists/simulaca in the chronicle I am designing. They would be large, muscular, monosyllabic single-minded hunters. The players will first meet one when he steps out from the woods behind an NPC and snaps his neck.

                              How would such an attack like that work? Surprise can negate defense, but how can a single surprise brawl attack do enough damage to be fatal?

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                              • It's one NPC, potentially with unnatural cybernetic augmentations or other occult alterations, taking another NPC by complete surprise. Why bother with deliberate mechanics at that point?

                                From a theory angle, primarily with an eye towards if you're considering what happens if he hunts the ring or the ring tries to stop it in progress? Probably the closest analogous situation would combine some access to unarmed lethal damage with the rules for a killing blow, where attack dice automatically succeed. A killing blow is an extremely potent maneuver reserved for when one character has another totally helpless, though. It's not an ambush attack; it's taking your time to find the right artery to squeeze while your victim is thoroughly bound or paralyzed.

                                If you wanted to take an ability like this down to the level where it might threaten a player character, I would highly suggest a situation, likely occult, by which it can be prevented before the scenario comes about, on top of the need for surprise. Say, an occult link by which the simulacrum can subject a doomed victim to a killing blow from surprise if it first is able to plant an unnatural item on the victim X hours before, which the victim is still carrying. Something to keep it more interesting and more gameable than a simple save-or-die.

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