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  • Originally posted by Neos01 View Post
    Wait... does that mean that the children would have false memories of being an offspring from his birth (or even a fractal for a double pact)?
    Given that Latents exist as a category? Almost certainly not.


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    Currently Consuming: Hunter: the Vigil 1e

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    • Originally posted by Neos01 View Post

      Wait... does that mean that the children would have false memories of being an offspring from his birth (or even a fractal for a double pact)?
      Pacts... are weird. X's memories should remain, just with the Demon photo-shopped in as a replacement. This... may not make sense given other historical "Facts" about the Demon (how were you raising X in Podunk, and getting a drug addiction in Cambodia at the same time?). It is these inconsistencies that can be investigated and unraveled.


      Malkydel: "And the Machine dictated; let there be adequate illumination."
      Yossarian: "And lo, it was optimal."

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      • When an angel in Cover squares off against a demon, can it/does it drop the Cover and appear in angelic form? I've always thought that having an angel dramatically unveil (e.g. when my evil Human Resources Angel drops her cover of an old woman and shows her true form) it makes for a memorable moment. But angelic Cover is not the same as the Mortal Mask numen, so maybe that just doesn't happen.

        When the confrontation comes, do your angels drop their Cover and reveal their true selves?

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        • Originally posted by KieranMullen View Post
          When an angel in Cover squares off against a demon, can it/does it drop the Cover and appear in angelic form? I've always thought that having an angel dramatically unveil (e.g. when my evil Human Resources Angel drops her cover of an old woman and shows her true form) it makes for a memorable moment. But angelic Cover is not the same as the Mortal Mask numen, so maybe that just doesn't happen.

          When the confrontation comes, do your angels drop their Cover and reveal their true selves?
          Angelic Covers are, unfortunately, not really expanded upon beyond "angels can have Covers" and "they don't have to check for compromise since the Cover is maintained through Infrastructure" (the last part might've been dev clarification on this forum; I forget).

          If we apply a demon's rules regarding Covers (where not contradicted by the info we have) then an angel should be able to reflexively shed its Cover and resume its own form, but without Aether to spend it's not capable of retaking its Cover.
          You can either just say that Essence serves the same role, allowing the angel to change back into its Cover as an instant action, or you might have the angel be required to return to the relevant Infrastructure to don it again (giving the players an opportunity to angel-jack the Cover before the angel returns).

          In the former case it would make sense for the angel to drop Cover whenever that would be preferable for its mission.
          In the latter case it would be much rarer, closer to a last resort kind of thing, since it would more severely interrupt their ability to carry out their mission (unless it's a hunter angel, but they don't usually have Covers in the first place). It's something it would do if it fears that the mission is at serious risk.

          In either case it's still unlikely that dropping Cover would be preferable unless the Cover itself is at risk. Angels don't have Demonic Form abilities that are locked away and afaik (please correct me if I'm wrong) they don't lose access to any Influences, Numina or Incepts while in Cover. The only difference is that the angel would be in Twilight and thus a lot safer since demons have very limited options for dealing with anything, most especially angels, in Twilight. I.e. there's no real reason for an angel to drop their Cover unless it's to prevent damage.
          Last edited by Tessie; 06-14-2019, 06:16 AM.


          Bloodline: The Stygians
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          • I want to make sure that I understand how PC's can restore Aether. If a demon uses some of their Aether and wants to replenish it, they can go to some isolated place, and assume full demon form, and replenish up to their Primum each turn until they are full. However, the transformation results in a Compromise roll at -3. If they have a decent Cover (say 6 or 7) they make this roll at -2. After restoring their Aether to full, it costs them one point of Aether to transform back into their Cover.

            Is this all correct?

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            • Originally posted by KieranMullen View Post
              Is this all correct?
              Nope!

              Assuming full demonic form recovers your Primum in Aether, and then if you run out of Aether you roll Primum to recover [successes] points of Aether to a minimum of 1.


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              • Originally posted by Satchel View Post
                Nope!

                Assuming full demonic form recovers your Primum in Aether, and then if you run out of Aether you roll Primum to recover [successes] points of Aether to a minimum of 1.
                Ok, so to be relentlessly specific: A Primum 1 demon cannot use this to restore their Aether. A Primum 2 would gain 1 Aether (net) for each cycle of transformation. The Compromise roll is at -3, unless you have very good or particularly bad Cover ratings.

                If the demon runs out of Aether while in demonic form, they can roll their Primum in dice and gain back that number. If they run out and want to expend several Aether then they must slowly gain Aether and expend it, until they have spent enough to power whatever effect they are generating.

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                • Originally posted by KieranMullen View Post
                  Ok, so to be relentlessly specific: A Primum 1 demon cannot use this to restore their Aether. A Primum 2 would gain 1 Aether (net) for each cycle of transformation. The Compromise roll is at -3, unless you have very good or particularly bad Cover ratings.

                  If the demon runs out of Aether while in demonic form, they can roll their Primum in dice and gain back that number. If they run out and want to expend several Aether then they must slowly gain Aether and expend it, until they have spent enough to power whatever effect they are generating.
                  That's about the size of it, yeah. There's the outside possibility that the Primum roll explodes to refill your pool halfway at the middle tiers, but otherwise assuming demonic form puts you in a slightly better state than you could've been when you assumed it at the cost of a pretty dire risk of compromise.


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                  Currently Consuming: Hunter: the Vigil 1e

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                  • A thought recently occurred to me. As I've been trying to figure out how to let an unchained make use of abjuration (mortal interactions) for awhile despite not having integrity or a soul I've been hitting a brick wall for a good while. At least until this thought came into my head and that is my question,

                    Is the Embed Going Native something that could allow one to perform abjuration while it is active?

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                    • Originally posted by Mr.F.I.X. View Post
                      A thought recently occurred to me. As I've been trying to figure out how to let an unchained make use of abjuration (mortal interactions) for awhile despite not having integrity or a soul I've been hitting a brick wall for a good while. At least until this thought came into my head and that is my question,

                      Is the Embed Going Native something that could allow one to perform abjuration while it is active?
                      Nope. Going Native does not grant a demon a soul. The character becomes human, but without a soul. The DtD manual p.311 states:

                      Soulless (Persistent): The character is in the first stage of soul loss. Without a soul, she can’t attempt abjuration, warding, or binding...
                      There are disadvantages to being a soulless human, such as increased chance of Possession, too.

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                      • Originally posted by KieranMullen View Post

                        Nope. Going Native does not grant a demon a soul. The character becomes human, but without a soul. The DtD manual p.311 states:



                        There are disadvantages to being a soulless human, such as increased chance of Possession, too.
                        I wouldn't expect a demon to go through soul loss with the use of going native. If that was an issue I'd expect it to be mentioned.

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                        • Originally posted by Mr.F.I.X. View Post
                          I wouldn't expect a demon to go through soul loss with the use of going native. If that was an issue I'd expect it to be mentioned.
                          Can't lose what you don't have. Demons don't have souls. :-)

                          (Rereading this, the one sentence reply came across as snarky - sorry if that's the case.)

                          Not having a soul does not reveal the demon as supernatural, since there are ways for humans to lose their souls as well.
                          Last edited by KieranMullen; 06-24-2019, 08:54 AM.

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                          • I'd say that'd fall under "truly human" but at that point it goes beyond "ask a simple question"

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                            • What are the mechanical benefits for Demons, when they lie? Do we get bonus dice or something else? Or the game simply rules that you have "automatic successes"?

                              ( I couldn't find this in the books; if you do, please tell me which book and page, thank you!)

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                              • Originally posted by Timecrafter View Post
                                What are the mechanical benefits for Demons, when they lie? Do we get bonus dice or something else? Or the game simply rules that you have "automatic successes"?

                                ( I couldn't find this in the books; if you do, please tell me which book and page, thank you!)
                                Mundane or supernatural means of directly confirming that their statements are truthful or lies — short of independent verification and other mundane methods of gathering information — do not necessarily work as they should, instead returning whatever result the demon wants the check to give. This doesn't make them inherently more convincing liars, but if they're subject to a means of quick-checking the truth value of a given answer then the interrogator has to rely on best-guesses or do the legwork of finding out from other people or their own senses or plain pattern recognition to determine whether the read is accurate or not.


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